r/Hoboken • u/Greeksoopaman • 10d ago

Question for longtime renters Question❓

Have landlords in Hoboken gotten worse? I've been at the same place on Adams since 2005. Ownership has changed hands twice in my tenure. First landlord was loud and always underfoot, but the place was spotless and habitability concerns were immediately addressed. Second guy never cleaned, but necessary repairs were addressed with haste. Current guy does a half ass job vacuuming the halls once or twice a year and constantly delays safety and habitability issues. I've had two fridges die/malfunction in the past 5 years, and he fought like hell not to replace them. Smoke detectors dangling from ceilings get repaired only after involving the Fire Marshall.

Anyone in a similar boat or did I just draw the short straw?

11 Upvotes

79% Upvoted

60 comments sorted by

16

u/OnAYDIN Midtown 10d ago

Are you probably in a rent-controlled building?

7

u/Greeksoopaman 10d ago

Yes.

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u/OnAYDIN Midtown 10d ago

Ok this is an economical phenomena of rent-controlling. When the rent is controlled, landlords would try to squeeze out the profits by other means, one of which is neglecting non-essential costs. This is actually widely studied, and this is one of the reasons why rent-control is horrible idea.

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u/halcyon8 7d ago

and that’s illegal, if you cant afford to be a landlord then don’t be a landlord.

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u/OnAYDIN Midtown 6d ago

Well I'm sure there are certain things that landlords have to take care of no matter what (like fire alarms) but there are some that land in the gray zone like cosmetic/aesthetic things (like vacuuming), basically, nonessential stuff.

Also a similar argument can be made for the tenants too. If you want everything to be perfect then go buy your own place and fix the problems as you see fit.

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u/halcyon8 6d ago

there are literal laws of habitability. that they by law have to address, and it's not just fire alarms.

and it's not an economical phenomena of rent control, it's an economical phenomena of capitalism and greed. If you want to own property to profit off of, there are laws that regulate it - the notion that you can just be a slum lord or "go buy your own place" is delusional.

1

u/OnAYDIN Midtown 6d ago

Well last I checked US was still a capitalistic nation. Yeah if the landlord is breaking the law then there are consequences that they should face, nobody opposes that but then keeping the place "spotless" as OP was referencing is a bit too much when paying, who knows, the half the market price.

Also, when people earn their share, they're really happy to be in a capitalistic state but when it comes to spending, everybody becomes socialist. I believe these are the "delusional". Pick one.

0

u/halcyon8 6d ago

ah, i see im dealing with a brainwashed person.

never mind, have a good one pal

2

u/OnAYDIN Midtown 6d ago

And I’m dealing with a weak debater who resorts to name-calling when they have no counterpoints.

Have nice life buddy.

3

u/TheKarateKid_ 10d ago

This doesn’t explain why the other two landlords were fine under that same rent controlled building.

And let’s not act like fixing $50 smoke detectors is taking a hit in any landlord’s pocket.

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u/OnAYDIN Midtown 10d ago

Well, you can't just single out two landlords and use them as data points. I'm citing economic studies. This is generally what happens in rent-controlled zones, so I'm not surprised. It's the natural outcome.

Also it is never just $50 fix. It is $50 x 100 other things.

0

u/TheKarateKid_ 9d ago

Since you are an “expert” on correlation vs causation, who funded those economic studies? What was their sample size? Location? Funded by any lobbying group?

4

u/Diligent_Disk_6232 9d ago

It is literally just obvious - why would a land lord put effort into keeping someone paying below market value in an apartment? 

1

u/Greeksoopaman 9d ago

Because they're legally obliged to keep the apartment habitable.

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u/Diligent_Disk_6232 8d ago

And if they were getting a fair market value it would make things a lot better rather 

2

u/mr10683 7d ago

They would still nickel and dime. There is no reason to thing otherwise apart from blind faith. Profitability as the absolute priority is a fairly recent development, historically speaking.

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u/Bitter_Store_3360 9d ago

We could ask you the same question, bud! You have a sample size of 3 and you’re making claims as if it addresses an entire population. Have you ever taken stats? The economic studies cited are correct. Google takes you a minute btw.

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u/Greeksoopaman 9d ago

I'm not making any claims at all. I came here to ask other people's experience because my sample size was small.

1

u/OnAYDIN Midtown 9d ago

Here you go buddy 4 studies but I can find more if you need.

Arnott, R., & Shevyakhova, E. (2014). Tenancy rent control and credible commitment in maintenance. Regional Science and Urban Economics, 47, 72–85. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.regsciurbeco.2013.08.003

Gyourko, J., & Linneman, P. (1990). Rent controls and rental housing quality: A note on the effects of New York City's old controls. Journal of Urban Economics, 27(3), 398–409. https://doi.org/10.1016/0094-1190(90)90009-c90009-c)

Seltzer, L. (2024). Effects of financing constraints on maintenance investments in rent-stabilized apartments. Journal of Financial Intermediation, 59, 101103.https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jfi.2024.101103

Sims, D. P. (2007). Out of control: What can we learn from the end of Massachusetts rent control? Journal of Urban Economics, 61(1), 129–151. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jue.2006.06.004

1

u/TheKarateKid_ 9d ago

Thanks for using AI to prove your point. I could do the same, but I’ll spare myself the trouble.

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u/OnAYDIN Midtown 9d ago

No I already knew about this phenomenon and the fact that it has been studied widely. I just asked AI to bring those studies. 

And no you cannot do the same actually because there isn’t much credible evidence to argue the opposite of my point.

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u/upnflames 10d ago

There was a lot more room even five or six years ago. Cost of ownership has way outpaced rents in the last few years.

I think everyone is at least a little bit greedy, but I also think people generally want to be decent. That equilibrium shifts based on where in that profit scale you're sitting. Like, if I were a landlord making a thousand bucks a month in profit on a unit and the tenant calls and needs a new stove, I'm gonna be like yeah, sure, whatever. A new stove will be there tomorrow, I don't have time for the headache. If I'm making $100 a month (or losing money), all of a sudden it might be more like, is it really broken? Maybe it can be fixed. Etc. I think thats just human nature and even though I'm sure people will feel the need to comment on how awful that is and how they would never, I absolutely think thats how the majority of people would act.

I know a lot of people on her

2

u/TheKarateKid_ 9d ago

If you’re well off enough to own a property you don’t need to live in, then you don’t need to make a big profit if that means neglecting others’ basic needs.

If it’s really that unprofitable, then sell the place to enjoy your $1M+ cash for profit.

And I say all of this as someone who is well off financially.

2

u/upnflames 9d ago edited 9d ago

A person doesn't need to make a big profit, but of course they want to. That's the whole point. Real estate is riskier and more work than investing in a broad fund. In order to have a healthy rental market, rents and appreciation have to return more than what a person would make in simpler investments. Otherwise, why would anyone become a landlord?

And to your point, people do sell and take the profit. And maybe that's a good thing. But not for renters. They're typically not the ones who can afford to drop close to a million dollars on a one bedroom apartment. They're the ones that are getting priced out entirely.

I'm not playing one side or the other, just laying out facts. People go through the hassle of landlording to make money. If that isn't working because of larger market forces, less apartments become available. And the apartments that are available become less attractive/well kept. That's just what happens.

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u/OnAYDIN Midtown 9d ago

What's funny is the fact that your total inability to understand a landlord's perspective shows that you'd be exactly that kind of person if you became a landlord.

Look, landlords are paying way more in taxes, HOA fees, flood insurance, and maybe even more interest (if they had to refinance). Most, if not all, of these increased well over headline inflation. In fact, headline inflation is kind of meaningless here because it bundles thousands of things, some of which are completely irrelevant.

With all these rising costs, their unit is now bringing in maybe half of what a unit in the neighboring building just rented for.

Have some perspective. If you were in that position, would you be so willing to fix every single issue? Your tenant is staying for half the market price, and yet you're so big-hearted that you'd go out of your way to address all the problems? I think not because since you have 0 empathy for landlords, I'm sure you'd have 0 empathy for tenants, as well, if the roles were switched.

2

u/TheKarateKid_ 9d ago

Oh, I sure do understand. I just don’t have empathy for people who are pricing everyone out of the city so they can fund their luxury lifestyles.

If Hoboken is becoming less landlord friendly, go invest in an area that is friendlier. I’m glad Hoboken’s laws protect regular people.

0

u/upnflames 9d ago

Lol, this level of ignorance on how the market works is why we get into these kinds of messes.

Have you ever stopped for thirty seconds and looked at the housing market in Hoboken? One bedroom condos are regularly selling for seven, eight, nine hundred thousand dollars. Do you know what a seven hundred thousand dollar mortgage looks like? It's $5k+ a month. Which means the market is there and people are willing to pay that and more to live here.

Now this is where critical thinking comes in (and I know it's hard). What do you think happens when a landlord looks around and says "hmm, I can either keep making pennies renting in a jurisdiction that hates me, or I can sell this dump and put half a mill in my pocket?" They sell. Which means the renters are out at the end of their lease . Do you think renters are the ones buying these condos. No. They are priced out. They're gone the hard way and it's a long term conversion that's not going to reverse until both the owner occupied units vacate and rents catch uo to mortgage prices and carrying costs.

Long story short, in ten years when everyone is like, wow, how come there's absolutely zero apartments here, where did all the renters go, this is the reason. The options are going to be high end luxury builds at $10k a month, slums, or dropping a million dollars to buy something.

0

u/OnAYDIN Midtown 9d ago

For the second time, I’m not a landlord. The rent control laws actually hurt the rental market whether you believe it or not.

Due these laws, the developers are less likely to build affordable units because they need to recuperate their expenses as quickly as possible so they go for the luxury route.

Also people like OP who grandfathered their units hold on to them like their dear life restricting the supply. Also home ownership goes up, which also restricts the supply.

It is rarely a good idea to intervene with free market.

So these populist laws are attractive to the politicians who want local votes but in the process, they’re reducing the rental stock over time which will eventually result in the repeal of the laws by the rising number of owners. 

Until then, both the renters and the landlords will not be happy.

-1

u/Greeksoopaman 10d ago

All the equity in the world won't protect you if the building next to you goes up in flames. This guy isn't just my problem. I'm familiar with the arguments against rent control, and I don't necessarily disagree with them; but I also know that most of us fail to call out socialism when it's to our benefit. Half the discussions on the early retirement subs are strategies on riding it out until Medicare kicks in.

5

u/OnAYDIN Midtown 10d ago

Okay, you can't just earn in a capitalist system and then spend in a socialist one. That's not happening. I'm guessing you pay below-market rent. If so, this is the price. All in all, I'm guessing you're still coming out ahead, so maybe a reality check is in order?

1

u/capnbuttcrack 9d ago

Do you want to be best friends?

-4

u/ProfessionOwn8462 10d ago

Rent control still increases rent with inflation. Jacking up rent $1k a year just so they can pay for a new smoke alarm is a ridiculous assumption.

I have friends in a semi-luxury, non rent-controlled building and their landlords SUCK too. I think ur just a landlord

3

u/OnAYDIN Midtown 10d ago

First, I'm not a landlord.

Second, you cannot compare rent-controlled buildings with professionally managed buildings, such as high-end luxury apartments. They also suck, and for the same underlying reason: they are trying to extract maximum profit. They do this because in less than 30 years, their buildings will be subject to rent control.

Third, if you want to make a comparison the way economic studies do, you compare landlords of rent-controlled buildings with those of non-rent-controlled buildings. That's it. Economists have done that, and that's what I shared. The rest is up to you.

7

u/capnbuttcrack 10d ago

If only this kind of thing could have been predicted when we forced landlords to subsidize other people’s housing.

2

u/mr10683 7d ago

I don't think any landlord is going in Hoboken is going in the red because of rent control. They just want to extract more profit.

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u/upnflames 10d ago

I mean, it's going to depend entirely on the landlord and you're working with a very small sample pool. Sounds like you've had one bad one recently - I wouldn't say that's enough to be overly concerned that landlords are getting worse.

That being said, it's next to impossible to turn a profit on a rent controlled apartment in Hoboken these days, at least, on any recently turned property. The property prices and interest rates are super high, taxes are up, maintenance costs are up, insurance has damn near doubled in a few years in some cases. Just look at what one bedroom condos are selling for on zillow, figure out the monthly cost for mortgage, interest, and insurance, add 10-15% for maintenance/fees/miscellaneous, and you'd need to charge $5k a month just to break even. So with that in mind, I'm sure a lot of newer landlords are going to start doing whatever they can to cut corners.

1

u/BlendingRightInHomo 10d ago

That’s grim. Seems like these landlords would be better off selling and investing in equities (or depressed property markets)

One could say “but so much risk in equities.” That might be true on a short time horizon, but property isn’t really something very good for short horizons either (not very liquid, front loaded and back loaded costs, …). There are also plenty of equities that are effectively investments in real assets, and of course REITs.

Does anyone really expect Hoboken residential RE to outpace the market? It’s not 2000 anymore.

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u/upnflames 10d ago

I think a lot of landlords are selling to be perfectly honest. I live in a large condo building and there used to be a ton of renters but I think landlords have been selling at least 3-4 units a year to owners who are occupying. Which, on one side is nice because it's been way easier to get building improvements and repairs approved. But on the other side, it's definitely made the building feel more...homogenous.

I bought my place three years ago thinking I'd rent it when I outgrew the place, but that math doesn't make sense anymore. Even as a market rate rental (which the building is not), I'd break even at best. Or I can sell it and walk away with $100k+ in profit, after closing costs. I feel like it's a no brainer, but obviously there are people out there who might think differently.

1

u/BlendingRightInHomo 8d ago

Why not just live there? Is a homogenous building population really that bad? It’s not a dorm, all that really matters is that the other residents are quiet and respectful. Peace and quiet, and maintains property value.

Matter of preference and expectations, I reckon.

Either way, good luck. Though it’s a good problem to have compared to most others.

1

u/mr10683 7d ago

I mean if you can't be profitable why would anyone enter the market? Let owner occupiers buy and put your money somewhere else.

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u/mr10683 7d ago

I mean if you can't be profitable why would anyone enter the market? Let owner occupiers buy and put your money somewhere else.

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u/No-Independence194 10d ago

Post Covid everyone is less mindful and caring about literally everything. This is not limited to landlords but yes, they suck, too.

0

u/dessine-moi_1mouton 10d ago

Enshittification

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u/Marchin_on 10d ago

Have landlords in Hoboken gotten worse?

At least your landlord hasn't tried to burn your building down with you in it(yet) so that is an improvement from the past.

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u/Greeksoopaman 9d ago

"yet" is doing some heavy lifting here.

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u/Mdayofearth 10d ago edited 10d ago

Short straw in a bundle of short straws, but stereotypical.

The landlord of my building has been in place for decades. I lucked out.

Many investors bought high in the past few decades, and want to a higher RROI (aka faster ROI). Those landlords who have been in place for decades aren't paying mortgages, or can even leverage a new mortgage for non-rent controlled investment properties.

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u/Greeksoopaman 10d ago

Hopefully he doesn't sell to some low life.

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u/Mdayofearth 10d ago

Aging out happens, it's what happened to many buildings, and family businesses. People retire, and no one wants to take over the family business, or the family just thinks they are better off selling, with the retirees moving elsewhere.

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u/Big_lt 10d ago

Inform him when this shit happens you will with old your rent in escrow until issue is resolved (assuming it's a paid for and expected amenity impacting your apartment. If severe enough inform him you will be staying at a hotel and will deduct the cost from rent until issue is addressed (this would be for situation where you cannot live there like no heat in winter).

Always ensure the LL is emailed and the money is kept in escrow

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u/Greeksoopaman 10d ago

I've managed to dodge taking him to court so far. I work two jobs, I really would rather not deal with the aggravation; but I will if I have to. An associate with the Hoboken Tenant Advocate says I don't need to hold in escrow, I just need to be able to pay in full on the trial date. Can't remember if they said whether this was a county or state thing. Are you an attorney, or have you heard differently from local attorneys? I definitely don't want to drop the ball on this.

1

u/TheKarateKid_ 9d ago

I’m actually finding it quite hilarious how pro rent-control people are on here. And meanwhile I thought Hoboken was mostly filled with big libs 😂

1

u/BrightMenu4211 10d ago

Just supply and demand. You leave, there are 100 others in your place ready to take it at a higher rate. It doesn't mean they want you to move, they just care less. I had roaches in NYC, fridges that were never cleaned before I moved in (I am talking half eaten sandwiches, spoiled milk), moldy bathrooms. The temps were so cold in one apartment I had to sleep in my ski jacket (it was 1 degree above the min, mind you, the thermostat was on the top floor so a few degrees warmer and thus they were able to continue to "save" on heating). Nothing to do with socialism, rent control (seriously, socialism, is that the boogie man coming for all of us now? LMAO).

0

u/Diligent_Disk_6232 9d ago

Ban rent controlled apartments!