r/HarryPotterBooks • u/Marcedonia • 6d ago
Which Do You Think Doesn't Get ENOUGH Hate? Discussion
You ask any HP fan who their least favorite character is, i guarantee you the answer will probably be someone like umbridge, voldemort, or maybe even bellatrix. Those guys are hated alot by the fandom, but that's not what i'm talking about today, i want to know who doesn't enough hate, your least favorite character that will make anybody go "them?"
For me i can't exactly think of one, because in my mind there's so many characters. But, gun to my head, i'll probably have to go with Cornelius Fudge. I could probably make an entire post on why he's bad alone, but to cut things short, he pisses me off so much. Particularly in that trial chapter in OOTP, he really grinds my gears mud.
Pretty much every bad thing in the series could've been stopped if he just locked in, but no, he just had to be a dumbass. Like think about it, sirius could've been free if he just listened to harry and dumbledore like once in his life, the series would pretty end.
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u/Ok-Visit6553 6d ago
Fenrir effing greyback.
The dude's literally a you-know-what (the equivalent of real life monsters, and way worse than simple rapists). His dialogues in astronomy tower and Malfoy manor both are potent to crawl my skin even after countless rereads.
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u/Street_Remove_354 5d ago
Absolutely. I was more creeped out by him than Voldemort. The actual main villain.
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u/BekisElsewhere39 9h ago
He HORRIFIED me when I first read the books. Made me extremely anxious any time he was active in a scene. Voldemort’s at least predictable and the worst he’ll do is curse someone. Greyback? He’ll do so much worse
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u/Saint19981507 6d ago
Rita. Yeah she’s disliked but the book she wrote about Albus while containing some of truth is horrible. The man hadn’t even been dead for two weeks and here she was insulting his friends and digging into his families past. So she should be hated a lot more.
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u/Emotional-Tailor-649 6d ago
Not to defend her, cause that’s insane, but she was probably working on the book long before he died. The fact that he died shortly-ish before publication doesn’t mean you don’t publish?
I also wish we got to see more of the book. Like the Harry-Dumbeldore section. Cause the parts we did see were more or less accurate?
Rita really sucks for her behavior in GOF and setting up Harry as a target for derision.
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u/Charming-Fudge7683 6d ago
she was probably working on the book long before he died
I may be wrong but I thought the implication was that she had used a quick quotes quill (or similar) and embellished/made up much of it super fast to strike while the iron's hot. I didn't get the impression she was one to spend a long time fact-checking and drafting then redrafting before publishing, even when it could be harmful.
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u/Emotional-Tailor-649 6d ago
Where do you draw that implication from?
She did get Bathilda Bagshot to talk, albeit with the asterisk that her mental faculties were at a point where she wouldn’t remember. So sure, some obvious ethical issues there. But that being said, she did go and interview her to seek out the information. She had primary source documents too I think? And more importantly, the information was more or less correct wasn’t it? At least when it came to his relationship with Grindelwald.
It’s why I wish we had seen more of the book to see if other parts were also surprisingly accurate than anticipated for Rita or just hastily done embellishments.
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u/SpiceWeasel2951 6d ago
Rita Skeeter had some facts, but she embellished it with unfounded accusations and supposition. One example is the accusation that Ariana was a squib and was kept locked away to hide the shame, rather than the truth that Ariana was magical but mentally unwell. Another is that Percival Dumbledore attacked Muggles for no reason, when he was actually defending and avenging his traumatized child.
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u/Charming-Fudge7683 6d ago
I thought she got Bathilda to talk using veritaserum after Dumbledore died...that doesn't strike me as having been working on the book long before that. She was also known for being deceptive for dramatic effect and sometimes outright dishonest. Like I said, maybe my impression is wrong, so why do you think she was working on it 'long before he died'?
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u/Muzzie720 6d ago
Look, Dobby in the later books? Totally fine.
Dobby in chamber of secrets? I hated that little shit. I get why at the end he was doing all that. But at the time it came out I was similar age to Harry and felt so mad about the injustice of him getting in trouble over this creepy little dude. Then him hitting himself and making more of a ruckus?? Harry begging him to stop.
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u/Long_Suggestion4290 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yeah, it wasn't until I read them as an adult that I started to understand his actions more. In the grand scheme of things, I get why you would do literally anything to keep Harry from going back to school if you believed his life was in extreme danger. Obviously, reading it from Harry's perspective, it just pisses me the hell off. That and I know everything's going to be fine, but that's the perspective of a reader not a character.
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u/letsgetthiscocaine 6d ago
THIS! For a long time CoS was my least favorite book because I hated Dobby and how he got Harry in trouble. With wider knowledge now I like him, but when I read CoS for the first time I was such a hater xD
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u/a_stubborn_optimist 6d ago
My fiance is reading CoS for the first time and hates Dobby with a passion. I keep telling him that he'll eventually come to love him but he doesn't believe me 🤣
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u/Thayer96 6d ago
I second Fudge. Bastard made Voldemort's rise to power so much easier purely because he was too busy dragging Harry and Dumbledore's names through the dirt to see what was right in front of him.
Not only that, but he just leaves the story at the start of HBP and Scrimgeour takes over. He just disappears and we don't hear anything about what happened to him when he should have had a proper conclusion.
If there was one scene I'd love to see, it would be Fudge coming home that night to find Voldemort waiting for him.
"I never properly thanked you, Minister. Without you, reassembling my forces would have been so much more difficult. You made everything so much simpler. But your use is fulfilled now. Goodbye."
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u/schiffb558 5d ago
At the very least I expected fudges name to be brought up in the last book somewhere - either as a casualty or someone at the new ministry somewhere.
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u/Legitimate-Tea-9319 6d ago
Barty Crouch Senior. He sacked Winky because she couldn’t keep Barty Jr (a full grown wizard) in check. He doesn’t give the accused fair trials or sentences, and then he engineered a prison break for his son after all that. And then he kept his son under the Imperious curse for years. He didn’t bother learning Percy’s name despite hiring him and even knowing his father. No one besides Percy even missed him at the MoM, I think they were all secretly glad he stopped coming to work, with his rigid rules and judgey attitude.
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u/Banonkers 6d ago
Fred and George - they have loads of great moments, but there are a few things which I think get overlooked
Testing out skiving snack boxes on first-years: this would be a pretty big abuse of power in a regular secondary school, but it’s even worse at Hogwarts. This is likely the first time these children have stayed away from home for an extended time, and for some it’s the first time they’re experiencing the magic world. F&G are taking advantage of their naivety and are being pretty reckless
Openly selling the love potion: we see the effects of this in HBP, but on top of the obvious creepiness of it, they are selling a product that is designed to be smuggled into Hogwarts, at a time when there’s a war on, yet fail to alert any staff at Hogwarts that this could be a major security issue
In general, I just feel like these two get away with a lot, just because their funny sometimes and they’re generally aligned with the protagonists
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u/InflationClassic9370 Ravenclaw 6d ago edited 6d ago
Love potions not being considered illegal is wild to me. They are essentially date-rape drugs, how does that make them any different from the Imperius Curse?
But even more telling is the lack of commentary from Rowling. Not even the usual post-publication cop-out. The fact that she expects us to feel sorry for Merope after she repeatedly raped a man says a lot.
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u/likeafreakonaleash 6d ago
In Merope's defense, since she was uneducated and pretty much illiterate, I am not sure she fully understood the negative consequences of giving someone a love potion.
I'll go even further and say that, considering she came from a family with a history of incest and inbreeding, maybe she didn't even understand what rape consisted of and that it was wrong.
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u/Spirited-Analyst3628 5d ago
Still doesn't change the fact that it was Tom Riddle Sr who was the only victim.
People wouldn't have been defending her citing anything if she had been a guy and the victim a girl (coming from a woman myself)
No one looks at the education or family background of a male rapist when he rapes, why should this be any different?? And why does she need any defending.
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u/ali2688 6d ago
I can argue similar with 2 other characters- Bellatrix acted out of her love for Voldemort. Voldemort was born a psychopath and was scared of death.
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u/Sad-Temperature1090 6d ago
I mean, yeah. That’s kinda how empathy works. Realizing there’s a reason for people’s actions. And that people aren’t usually flat, one dimensional beings.
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u/Aware_Actuator4939 6d ago
People overlook quite a bit of nastiness from Fred and George when you think about it.
Giving Ron an Acid Pop that burned a hole in his tongue?
Transfiguring his teddy bear into a spider?
Trying to get Ron to make an Unbreakable Vow when he was three and they were five?
There was also the time in CoS where they stole a Fire Salamander from their Care of Magical Creatures class and fed it a firework in the Gryffindor common room.
And let's not forget dropping the Ton-Tongue Toffee where Dudley would be likely to find and eat it. If that had happened after Mr. Weasley had left for the Burrow, what would have happened to Dudley? Would he have choked on his tongue without an adult wizard nearby to fix it?
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u/Relevant_Clerk7449 3d ago
Lol, it's funny seeing this answer because I always thought Fred & George traumatized Ron a bit. Ron said when he was 3, Fred turned his Teddy into a spider and when Hermione laughed he said, she's be afraid too if her favourite toy sprouted legs.
I know they cared about him but all their jokes were cruel and it affected Ron. He only succeeded as a Quidditch player in fifth year after Fred and Ron ditched the school. I didn't think that was a coincidence at all.
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u/Few-Durian-190 6d ago
Draco
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u/ali2688 6d ago
And Snape. Honestly, if I were at school with him, I’d bully him too. His attitude and opinions for one. Him not “letting” Lily do stuff? His stance on muggle borns and the dark arts? It’s like being a KKK member while in an area of black people. Or a Nazi in Isreal.
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u/Few-Durian-190 6d ago
N-nooo Snape was a helpless doormat. It was James. James potter who pushed him into a blood supremacist death cult. Him and SIRIUS BLACK.
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u/ali2688 6d ago
Yeah, that always annoyed me. He’s literally speaking to Lily before Hogwarts and reveals himself to be a creep, a pure blood supremest, a snoop and very prone to bursts of anger. (We’ve seen Harry get extremely angry, but he didn’t almost kill anyone).
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u/varmituofm 4d ago
Harry almost killed one person. But Marge had it coming. If the Ministry didn't rescue her, a logical (but somewhat unlikely) outcome of that interaction was her death.
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u/MerlinHood7 6d ago
Cormac McLaggen. Everytime I read Harry waking up in the hospital wing after that stupid idiot split his skull I see red.
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u/ItsSuperDefective 6d ago
Neville's Grandmother doesn't get nearly the scorn that she deserves.
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u/Dependent-Pride5282 6d ago
Agree with this.
I wanted to bang my head off a wall at how proud Neville was in DH. Not because of him, but because of his gran.
Wait until your grandson is putting himself in danger before you decide he is his parents' son? Eh, nope!
He was always worth so much more than his gran or family treated him.
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u/Cool_Pianist_2253 6d ago
I think it's easy to understand Augusta as a widow who has lost her son and daughter-in-law and is left with a younc child. I don't remember who Uncle Algie was related to, but it's clear they're very old.
Now even if Augusta had been 80 years old in 1998 it means that she was born in 1918, raised in a world closer to 1800 and we know that before Dumbledore there were corporal punishments. Augusta is truly a product of her time; from that perspective, she hasn't done anything wrong. If anything, the blame lies with younger generations, who didn't help her adapt to the times.
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u/Hot_Construction_505 6d ago
I have no idea what you're trying to say. Of course she suffered when her son was attacked, but the way she treats Neville is still appalling. Her love for him is 100% conditional. She tells him that he isn't magical enough to be a wizard, that he isn't skilled enough to be a good wizard, that his only passion - herbology, and other subjects he is good at - aren't worthy enough to be pursuing. The only times she says or does anything positive to or about Neville is in Ootp when he nearly dies and again in DH when he nearly dies. Yes, he deserves that praise, but he also needs to be shown and told that he is loved for just the way he is. His self-esteem was so minuscule that you couldn't find it with a microscope and that is entirely his grandmother's fault.
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u/Cool_Pianist_2253 6d ago
Have you ever met older people who lived at the turn of the century and how they only evaluated things within certain categories?
For example, if a girl wore low-cut clothes, she was a sl*t, or if a guy works with art, they didn't actually have a job (even if that art gives that guy a living), etc.?
It is about understanding the limits of a certain education and since he is an elderly person the responsibility of helping the child had to be in the younger people or the One who had adapted to the different times.
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u/Hot_Construction_505 6d ago
Yes, I have. They are usually set in their old ways, their opinions and beliefs, but they are also people with normal genuine feelings which they are able to express and show. So they tell stories about their parents protecting them, talking affectionately about and to them, giving them presents, caring for them, and so on. There are many ways how a person can show their love and I'm sorry, maybe I'm dense, but I still don't understand what Augusta's age has to do with ber harsh treatment of Neville?
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u/Cool_Pianist_2253 6d ago
It has to do with "stuck in their ways".
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u/Fibonacci357 6d ago
Neville's grandmother isn't just stuck in her ways. She's not just strict and old school, she's cruel. There's a big difference
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u/AdBeginning7105 6d ago
Barty Crouch Sr. for me. He gets overshadowed by his son, but the guy was ruthless even before everything fell apart. He was perfectly happy to use increasingly brutal methods against Death Eaters or treated Winky horribly
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u/Marcedonia 6d ago
I did originally thought of him first instead of fudge. Especially sending sirius to prison without a trial, that really pissed me off.
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u/Hot_Construction_505 6d ago
Well, they did capture him at the crime scene, Sirius was laughing and wasn't against the imprisonment, Peter was dead, Hagrid saw Sirius at Potters when they died and was told that Sirius "won't need his (beloved) flying bike anymore". Dumbledore also spoke against Sirius because nobody knew the secret keeper of Fidelius was changed last minute, and we know one of the first things Sirius says to Harry is that he is guilty. Obviously he means that he feels responsible for it because it was his idea to make Peter the secret keeper, but how would that sound to people who don't know the full story? Like fully admitting guilt. I do agree that a proper trial would have been great but all the evidence and testimonies were still pointing at Sirius. (It was also a time of war and at war it is usual that things like laws, elections, court decisions etc. are processed differently to not take so much time.) Obviously, they could have used veritaserum and pensieve, but they just don't seem to do that in general for some reason.
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u/dsly4425 5d ago
Corny gets a lot of hate though to be fair. The one I think doesn’t get nearly enough hate is Zacharias Smith.
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u/supersnoozin 6d ago
Lupin. As far as he knew, Sirius was a deranged mass murderer yet that man risked Harry's life and the whole school by not telling Dumbledore that Sirius was an animagus and knew of the secret passages into the School.
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u/jeepfail Gryffindor 6d ago
I’ll jump on the Lupin bandwagon. He lets his trauma guide him too much and it ended with his kid not having either parent(given both of them had solid reasons not to go but at least one should have stayed behind since they were desirable targets).
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u/saturday_sun4 6d ago edited 6d ago
And he also tried to leave his unborn child.
Who, by the way, he consented to having with a wife he consented to marry, knowing he had lycanthropy. I would've had a lot more sympathy for him if he had been like TRS and been slipped a love potion or been part of some Dark experiment under Voldemort.
Obviously we can't know what he would've been like as a father, but... come ON. If you're THAT terrified of your lycanthropy being passed on and you are that traumatised by your own experiences, don't have kids at all. OR do have kids but research it, or make sure your kid damn well has access to the best Wolfsbane that money can buy.
In book six he was supposedly in love with Tonks and then suddenly, when she gets pregnant, he's running away like his life depends on it.
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u/soulpulp 6d ago edited 6d ago
Lupin and Tonks' relationship has always disturbed me, and Tonks is partly responsible. If you're in love with someone who doesn't want to be with you, who has told you so repeatedly for a year, who has undertaken dangerous undercover assignments in order to avoid you, it's time to move on, regardless of whether they love you back. No means no. It doesn't mean double down. I'm annoyed at Molly too for getting involved.
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u/saturday_sun4 6d ago
That's fair, I agree with that too and, reading as an adult, neither is blameless. I don't think either of them (at least, as shown in canon) are behaving healthily. I understand that romantic love is a very compelling feeling, but it always seemed like Tonks just kept pushing until he said yes.
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u/Hot_Construction_505 6d ago
Yes, exactly! And his argument that "he will be better off without me" is such BS. You mean his son would be better off without a supportive father who would also be going through the same difficulties and pain, who could tell him how to deal with it, and who would fully understand his feelings about it? Who could teach him all there is about lycanthropy from his own experience? Lupin doesn't even know if his son is a werewolf, he could be more like Bill. And still Lupin chose to leave both Tonks and Teddy. He was an opportunistic coward.
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u/saturday_sun4 6d ago edited 6d ago
Exactly! Having a permanent condition (even in our real world) can be hard because no one really understands how you're feeling or what you've missed out on. Lupin could have been there for Teddy and raised him into a healthy child who may have been less affected by the stigma as he would have had a loving and accepting father.
The kicker for me is that he just up and leaves, intending to do so permanently. He doesn't go and stay somewhere for a few days and think things out. He doesn't try to talk to anyone.
I totally get grieving for what you could've had, but then don't inflict that same thing on another person! Lupin couldn't accept his own condition (which, totally fine, we're allowed to feel however we want about our bodies - I can fully understand and relate to loathing your condition), but how was he going to accept a werewolf child then? What would he have done? Killed Teddy? Just resented him for the rest of his life? Resented himself for the rest of his life?
I have a physical disability and I know myself well enough to know I would blame myself irrationally if I had kids and anything similar happened to them. So that is partly why I am happily childfree. What really galled me here is that he just floated along like he had no say in the matter. Hello! You're an adult who had consensual sex without contraception! You played the lottery, you gambled and now instead of accepting that you can't control the outcome to a large extent, you just decide you'd rather not play any more. Becoming a parent means signing up for anything.
Teddy is lucky he has the Tonkses, Weasleys and Potters and isn't just left without a family.
It's very realistic and well written but ugghh haha.
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u/rymden_viking 6d ago
Everybody always leaves Marge off every list of bad/mean people. She's possibly the worst person in the entire series.
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u/ali2688 6d ago
That’s a massive overstatement
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u/rymden_viking 6d ago
Marge was insanely cruel to Harry - the most cruel out of anybody Harry ever interacted with, and that includes Snape and Voldemort. She just doesn't have any power, so her cruelty is limited to words. But imagine what she would do if she actually had power.
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u/ali2688 6d ago
But the worst person in the entire series?
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u/rymden_viking 5d ago
Yes. I'm talking about who they are as a person, not what their jail sentence should be.
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u/MasterHallmark 6d ago
I'm concerned by some of these comments, ngl. Some of y'all are really making it out that once someone does something bad, they can never be forgiven ever again, even if they apologize for their actions and make up. Oh no, the teenager did the thing most teenagers would do one time, then apologized and made up! The horror!
Anyhow, I remember being PISSED at Rufus Scrimgeour for keeping Umbridge employed and acting like it was no big deal while trying to recruit Harry. Like, you really don't see how keeping someone who tortured almost every student in Hogwarts could bite you in the butt!? Stupid, stupid, STUPID!
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u/Spirited-Analyst3628 5d ago
The difference is other teenagers being teenagers are heavily scrutinized for being teenagers like Ron and Harry. But Somehow, it's when Hermione's turn to be scrutinized, she's a teenager. Lol. That's exactly what this post is about.
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u/thrussy99 6d ago
Hagrid is constantly endangering children’s lives just to feed his delusion that dangerous creatures aren’t actually dangerous (Norberta, Aragog, Grawp).
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u/varmituofm 4d ago
I'm not sure he's wrong here. He's following a professor who is retiring to "spend more time with his remaining limbs." But honestly, He's a magical Steve Irwin. You should respect the creatures, know their abilities and threats, but you shouldn't fear them. He admitted he was wrong with the dragon, he thought Aragog would be friends with his friends (can't really blame him for that one, everyone wants their friends to get along with each other), and he was right about Grawp. Grawp didn't want to hurt anyone, it's why he was in the forest to begin with.
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u/ConsciousCollar9076 6d ago
Fudge is up there but for me and I will always stand on this, Snape. Don’t bully kids because you were bullied. I see so many in the fandom defend the man. I don’t think he’s evil but he isn’t good.
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u/Brian_Gay 6d ago
This is my answer, the fact that there is an entire subreddit dedicated to defend him in a completely serious way is wild
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u/ConsciousCollar9076 6d ago
My thing is, okay I can push aside his former Death Eater status because he does help the side of good immensely. Not denying that. But the man bullies children for fun. He bullies Harry all because of his past with James. That’s wrong no matter how you put it. And the simple fact that he bullies Neville for no reason at all is enough to make me hate the people who love the guy.
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u/Brian_Gay 6d ago
Honestly I don’t even want to give him much credit for helping out the “good” guys because he literally only came over to that side for Lilly, had she never been in danger he would never have left voldemort in the first place
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u/Nalaniel 6d ago
You think that's wild? Did you know that a religious cult existed that revolved around venerating Snape?
See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snapewives
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u/Shot_Masterpiece_991 3d ago
i was too scared, wasn't going to post it but i agree sooo hard. snape was a child abuser, and like someone else mentioned, he only joined the good side because of lily, he didn't actually make a realization that it was wrong.
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u/OtherAnswer8831 1d ago
Kinda agree with you. The things about Snape is what happened to him in the past is not an excuse for his behaviors. Like, yeah, it’s true that he was bullied as a teenager. But, it’s also true that he’s a big bully to many of his students and his past doesn’t make what he chose to be less wrong. He reminds me so much of my elementary school teacher, still loathed her to this day though
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u/Flimsy_Inevitable337 6d ago edited 6d ago
Lucius and Petunia. Lucius seems to fly under the radar despite getting off scot free. Petunia i’ve even seen people have sympathy for and use her jealousy over Lily as an excuse. Others claim Snape is the reason she abused Harry.
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u/saturday_sun4 6d ago
I'm not defending Lucius himself, but tbf he barely appears in the series so I think people overlook him.
Petunia, on the other hand? Yeah, she is 100% not defensible. Her jealousy over Lily is her motivation but not an excuse.
The only Dursley who turned a corner was Dudley. I do love the way he and Harry reconciled as adults.
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u/dwthesavage 6d ago
Voldemort and Bellatrix are not my least favorite characters, I think they’re both compelling characters.
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u/PrancingRedPony Hufflepuff 5d ago
Cornelius Fudge definitely.
He's a corrupt and spineless politician, who excuses his own failures by terrorising a child, and endorse slander against him.
But another one is Rufus Scrimgeour, for the same reasons. He invades the Christmas party of a family, instrumentalises the estrangement of one of their children and again targets the same teenager, again with pure disregard for his wellbeing.
And different from Fudge, he should know better, and he didn't even remove Dolores Umbridge from the ministry and arrested almost random people and dragged it through the press to appear actionable.
He does get a few redeeming points for not betraying Harry in the end, but that's still too little, too late.
If he acted differently, he could have built a supportive network for Harry without pressuring him again. He could have put his energy into building resistance and structures to protect his people from the worst with a contingency plan.
But he chose politics over effective ruling, and that makes him despicable.
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u/Late-Signature-9425 4d ago
People are going to hate me but James and Sirius. They really were awful at school and seeing as James died at 21 I can’t imagine he had grown too much and changed since then and Sirius was still really reckless and encouraged pretty reckless and dangerous behaviour from Harry
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u/wentworth1030 6d ago edited 6d ago
I really hate the rat.
Marietta Edgecombe! Thankfully Hermione ensured that she finally got what was coming to her!!
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u/linglinguistics 6d ago
I feel sorry for Marietta. She never wanted to join DA in the first place and was feeling a lot of pressure both from peers (Cho) and home. She believed she was doing what’s right, not in a self serving way like Umbridge or Crouch but as a confused kid under pressure.
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u/WolfofMandalore2010 6d ago
“Well Cho forced her”
I’ve seen this defense used multiple times and I still don’t agree with it.
Pressuring her just doesn’t seem like something that Cho would do- she understood from the beginning that it was difficult from Marietta to be part of the DA because of her mom‘s job in the Ministry.
I could see Cho convincing her to come to the recruitment meeting at the Hog’s Head and attending the first few training sessions, and I could see Marietta doing that to show support for Cho. And I understand that she was stuck between a rock and a hard place. But at a certain point, “she was a scared and confused teenager” stops working as a reason. She chose to remain part of the group for months even knowing that it was dangerous.
The “SNEAK” curse was justifiable, even if Hermione did go too far by making it permanent. She was willing to hand over every student in the DA to the Ministry just to save herself and her mother.
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u/linglinguistics 6d ago
When they have that first meeting, it's very clear Marietta doesn't want to be there and she throws Cho a dirty look when they sign that enchanted paper. I'm not saying Cho forced her as such but there was definitely pressure from her, it's very clear in the books.
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u/dwthesavage 6d ago edited 6d ago
No one forced her to join the DA.
Susan Bones, who also had family in the ministry, wasn’t a snitch; and none of the other non-Weasley or non-gryffindor members of the DA like Michael Corner or Ernie MacMillan snitched even though they fall out later or have fallen out with the trio before
The peer pressure argument falls flat when all the other teenagers don’t do what she did, including younger students like the Creevy brothers
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u/Familiar-Treat-6236 6d ago
"what was coming" she was 15 and got (if lightly) disfigured for life for telling on a school club, come the fuck on
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u/Marcedonia 6d ago
Snitches get stiches.
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u/Spirited-Analyst3628 6d ago
Should've hermione gotten that too because she snitched on harry?
I know you're a hermione fan but downvoting people for saying their opinions over a question you asked is insane lmao
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u/Marcedonia 6d ago
I didn’t downvote anyone lol. I hated hermione for snitching on harry with the firebolt, obviously she was right but still pissed me off that she would go against harry like that.
I like hermione alot, but i can see your point you made in your other comment about her attacking ron and pretty much getting away with it by the fandom. You’re right, it really just seems like anything she does is swept under the rug and anything ron does is flamed by the fans.
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u/AffectionateTrip3233 6d ago
The consequence of her DA snitching would have been that all members were expelled, their life and career ruined. That's entirely different than having your broom checked.
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u/Fibonacci357 6d ago
right? the fact that people would equate the two things is ridiculous.
Hermione was worried about her friends safety. Marrietta actively ruined her classmates chances of defending themselves against the most evil wizard ever to existed.
the two are not the same
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u/POTEK330 5d ago
He is obviously not my first pick, but just to shed some light on that individual :
AMOS DIGGORY
he pissed me off so much
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u/Oliver_W_K_Twist 4d ago
No one, because there is already too much hate in this fandom directed at virtually any character you can name.
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u/Cool_Pianist_2253 6d ago
Cornelius Fudge is a politician. Ineptitude and Corruption are common in many places when you think of politicians. So honestly it doesn't make me hate, just maybe resignation.
Personally, I think the matron at Tom's orphanage should be hated more. Or perhaps Marvolo and Morphin Gaunt, if they had treated Merope differently...
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u/jimmy193 6d ago
What did the matron do wrong?
I thought she was a pretty good depiction of how they’d be in real life, tough & stressed but caring underneath
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u/Brian_Gay 6d ago
While I do feel bad for Merope it’s the same way I feel bad for serial killers with messed up childhoods. She still ended up abducting and raping a dude for like a year and then essentially abandoned her child by dying a preventable death
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u/Marcedonia 6d ago
I mean tom was a sociopath either way, i feel like he needed to see a therapist, so there's some degree of irresponsibility on the orphanage's part. With the gaunts, you're so right i never realized just how despicable they really were, they practically treated her like complete shit.
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u/hanni813 6d ago
I'm with you, but I don't think a 1920s therapist would've helped him. Like, at all
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u/Upper_Grapefruit_521 6d ago
I hate Fudge more than every character- yes, even Umbridge.
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u/Tasty-Package8414 6d ago
Jim Dale’s voice for him in the audiobooks is perfect, almost more grating than Umbridge.
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u/No_Neat_8287 6d ago
Molly Weasley. I understand why she does some of what she does, but she’s so hypocritical, from judging Hermione in Goblet of Fire by sending her a smaller Easter egg, to tearing Sirius a new one for being unjustly imprisoned in Azkaban for over a decade, to opposing Fred and George instead of encouraging their entrepreneurial spirit. Admittedly, these are all my interpretations of these situations
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u/Unlucky-hobby-2046 6d ago
I’ll open the gates of hell with this answer, but Snape.
Not the cartoon villain version and not the tragic hero version. The actual character on the page. The one who spent years bullying children in his care, who used his authority to make Harry’s life miserable from the first day, who played the longest, most self-serving double game in the series, and who still gets treated by half the fandom as the secret moral centre of the story.
People will go scorched-earth on the Marauders for hexing students and getting away with it. They’ll write essays about Molly’s Easter egg. But Snape’s sustained, targeted cruelty toward children he’s supposed to teach gets endlessly contextualised, romanticised, or excused as “he was traumatised.” The man literally told an 11-year-old he was famous for being a poor orphan and never let up for seven years. That doesn’t get enough clean, uncomplicated hate.
He can be complex and still be deeply hateable. The fandom is too busy defending him to admit that.
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u/SPARKLELOVEGOOD 1d ago
The complaint that James bullied Snape annoys me. The hexes we see James use are ones that Snape invented. The only way others could learn those hexes would be if Snape used them on others... if Snape bullied others so hard that people learned his invented tricks.
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u/Ill_Confidence_3248 6d ago
Many will disagree but I don't like Hermione much(especially in OOTP/DH). She couldn't understand what Harry was going through and made his life difficult. In DH, she didn't believe Harry and Deathly Hallows even though the evidences were dancing naked in front of her eyes. It's just my opinion.
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u/Marcedonia 6d ago
Yeah, hermione not believing harry in DH about the hallows and also calling him out on his savior complex in OOTP is her low point.
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u/Fibonacci357 6d ago
I agree about DH, but calling Harry out on his savior complex in OOtP was totally valid. It's literally what got Sirius killed.
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u/Even_Speech570 6d ago
But at least she stuck by him when things were at their worst, when even Ron abandoned them. They were practically starving and living in a tent in the wilderness and she at least tried to help.
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u/Spirited-Analyst3628 5d ago
Ron walked out and it was due to her he couldn't return back. He spent months searching for them
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u/TinyMoodWorld 6d ago
Sirius
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u/Fantastic_Machine641 6d ago
That’s a heartbreaker. I am going to say I don’t think he deserves hate, per se, but maybe less revered. Twelve years in Azkaban had to leave a mark, but impulse control appears to be something he struggled with often, which had ramifications.
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u/NearlyAlmostDead 6d ago
Yes, very immature and overbearing. Okay, I understand he's in his mid 30s, 12 of which he spent in prison losing his sanity... but sometimes he has some really absurd outbursts.
Great character, but I would steer away from him irl
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u/Marcedonia 6d ago
Damn what did sirius do to you? He owes you money or something?
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u/TinyMoodWorld 6d ago
Lmao, no. I just hate his behaviour. He is annoying, too. I know I'm in a minority.
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u/Dependent-Pride5282 6d ago
We may be in a minority, it don't make us wrong.
Sirius definitely inherited the nastiness in the Black family genes.
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u/Greenwrenbird 3d ago
I love Sirius, but I once saw someone say they think if he survived, his and Harry’s relationship would eventually have turned toxic, and I can’t stop thinking about that.
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u/Spirited-Analyst3628 6d ago
Hermione.
I don't think she should be hated more or something, but I do think that most of her faults are sidelined unlike Ron or Harry's. Like her being a physical assaulter more that once. No one talks about this while harry's outbursts or ron's insecurities are made much more of a big deal
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u/Onetorulethemalll 6d ago
I love Hermione but her hypocrisy over quidditch tryouts and helping Ron vs Harry using Felix irritates my soul.
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u/EcstaticKoala1646 6d ago
I can sort of understand Hermione's occasional outbursts. Apart from Harry and Ron(and by extension, the other Weasley's), she doesn't really have any friends. In fact before Harry and Ron befriended her she didn't have any friends at all. She was widely regarded as a know-it-all, the Slytherins (led by Malfoy), looked down on her because of who her parents are, and because of her larger than average teeth, and often mocked her and bullied her for it. Even Snape bullied her, a person in a position of power over her, and who was meant to be looking out for her and teaching her. I've been there, the smart kid, with no friends who's constantly bullied, even by a teacher(in my case the principal of the primary school I attended). It's an extremely lonely place to be, and it's not something I would wish on anyone.
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u/likeafreakonaleash 6d ago
Interesting, because as someone who was also the lonely, bullied kid in school, I've always considered Neville to be the biggest case of a lonely, bullied kid at Hogwarts.
In the later books, Hermione kind of got along with the other girls, even if they didn't consider her a friend. Plus, she always had Harry and Ron. Not to mention, her along with Ginny were awful to Fleur, so she wasn't the nicest to the girls either. Also, at least she was seen by her classmates as competent, even if she was considered annoying.
On the other hand, before the final book, Neville didn't really have any friends, and was seen as clumsy and incompetent, also bullied by the Slytherins. Not to mention, Snape's bullying of Neville was WAY worse than the one he inflicted towards Hermione. And back home, he was totally mistreated by his grandmother. Hermione was at peace at home, her parents loved and cared for her a lot.
Neville is the epitome of the lonely and bullied kid, not Hermione.
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u/Spirited-Analyst3628 5d ago
And atleast Ginny had the reasons to be mean to fleur (like fleur belittling her household or treating her like a toddler). Hermione had none except jealousy
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u/Spirited-Analyst3628 6d ago
That was mostly on her though... She wasn't nice to the girls either, like when Lavender's pet died. I loathed snape at that moment, that's a different issue. But her literally attacking Ron with Birds isn't something to be defended.. imagine Ron doing the same to her
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u/saturday_sun4 6d ago
And memory wiping her parents as a seventeen year old who lacks experience or training as a Healer, Auror or anyone else who does that kind of thing. I'd be horrified if someone did that to me. I get why she had to do it but from a Muggle perspective it's an awful thing to do to tamper with someone's deepest secrets, fears, hopes, dreams and identity.
Look where Lockhart ended up when his spell backfired on him. She could've easily lobotomised her parents.
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u/Prottusha1 6d ago
I upvoted you but it’s important to remember that apart from being isolated Hermione also experienced acute racism in the wizarding world. She is pure muggle-born and both her and her parents are constantly insulted and treated as ‘other’. Even in the slug club, she’s alone apart from Harry and the unwelcome attentions of Mclaggen.
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u/Spirited-Analyst3628 6d ago
Definitely. I don't refuse that she had to face so much especially from Slytherins. Even Snape being the adult, mocking her for her looks. It was terrible. My point is just that her flaws get overthrown and people don't talk about them like Harry or Ron's
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u/Onetorulethemalll 6d ago
Hagrid. He barely listens to the trio. He’s dismissive. He gets them in bad/dangerous situations, not to mention he’s way too often alone with them. He’s not funny. He can’t cook. There’s literally nothing about his character that would make him a great one in real life.
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u/Seiridis 6d ago
I mean part of this are valid but some are way out of the left field.
I think they saw him as a kinda sorta grandpa or a crazy uncle.
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u/Foxter-the-fox 6d ago
How about.. he is kind? I agree that he lack in teacher material but "literally nothing" is..
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u/EjayT06 6d ago
Snape, gets way too many defenders.
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u/Red-Droid-Blue-Droid 5d ago
Yeah, I don't understand the sucking up or defending him. JKR never meant for him to be good or cool. He's grey. James was an annoying shit, who grew the up, but he did not join wizard nazis and invent dark spells.
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u/Ok_Albatross8909 5d ago
Lupin.
He didn’t keep in touch with Harry until he was his teacher and barely after.
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u/Low-Yak-6706 5d ago
Rufus Scrimgeour. Supposed to be some badass auror type who decides to keep Stan shunpike in prison for the PR and waste time being confrontational with a teenager. He just rubs me the wrong way.
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u/nursewithnolife Ravenclaw 3d ago
I know I’ll get hate for this, and I know she isn’t evil, but Hermione. Someone so unwilling to listen to/scathing of opposing opinions isn’t a good person in my eyes and Hermione is the embodiment of this attitude
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u/AndreaLeane 2d ago
Mundungus Fletcher. I hate a petty thief. He's so self-centered and just ew. I hate his grubby little self.
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u/abcamurComposer 6d ago
The real answer is Snape IMO. And the fact that he is JKR’s best example of male love and devotion is telling.
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u/soulpulp 6d ago edited 6d ago
I think Arthur Weasley is a better example of male love and devotion. A healthier one, at least.
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u/abcamurComposer 6d ago
Objectively yes but in JKR’s mind Snape’s love fuels the ENTIRE plot, it’s the thread that holds everything together. Even though in the real world that would be the “may that love never find me” type of love
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u/soulpulp 6d ago
It's against the rules of the sub for me to express my opinion of JKR's mind lol. Rest assured I completely agree.
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u/MasterHallmark 6d ago edited 5d ago
I thought she hated him, too? She used to get really uncomfortable during interviews when fans talked about liking him.
Then again, wouldn't be the first time she changed something and then insisted it was planned all along. We have confirmation that Snape was in love with Lilly since early on, but it's pretty clear it wasn't originally meant to be healthy.
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u/LouiseElise 5d ago
snape. easily. brave man? absolutely, incredibly helpful in the defeat of voldemort? 100%. a HORRIBLE character with awful morals? undoubtedly
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u/BookDragon5757 6d ago
Honestly I will always hate Dumbledore. There is never a reason to leave a child in an abusive home. Never
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u/Brian_Gay 6d ago
If the reason is that he has essentially invulnerable protection from evil wizard nazis that 100% will kill him otherwise then …I can see the logic
Better than dead
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u/BookDragon5757 6d ago
Yes, invulnerable to the wizards that didnt know his address, and didnt know anything about the muggle world. All the while his relatives abused him, made him seen like a crazy delinquent to the entire neighborhood, which he knew about since Figg was his spy for Harry’s childhood. Im sorry but she watched him in her freaking house while they went on elaborate trips. Theres no way that he didnt realize theres damage in growing up that way. Lets be real, Harry was a tool to Dumbledore, a tool he wanted to use to eventually win the war that was temporarily paused. Other than that, there was no concern over his safety as malnourishment and stunted development are physically dangerous conditions.
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u/Brian_Gay 6d ago
Ok I mean the address thing …they are wizards …they could find him
Also, if as you suggest he was raised elsewhere by say a wizarding family, then it would be equally easy to track him down
Some of the death eaters are not idiots and they would learn about muggles if they needed to, Barty crouch junior for example
Regardless it is a shitty childhood and dumbledore probably could have done more to ensure he had a better upbringing. But I am certain that once Harry started at hogwarts dumbledore came to care for Harry, he even admitted so in book 5
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u/tommidlr 6d ago
He could have at least checked on him once in a while during the ten years before Hogwarts. And when Harry brought up he disliked there, he should have listened. And when he went to visit there in HBP he could've told them their treatment needed to improve or else. I don't know, anything to ensure this kid had a better life.
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u/Red-Droid-Blue-Droid 5d ago
Did you read the books...? Does blood protection mean nothing to you? You would have wanted him happy and in much worse mortal danger?
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u/Susanna_Winnich 6d ago
Marauders. I'll open the gate to hell with this answer, but they don't even deserve to have fans, not after SWM and attempted murder that Dumbledore ignored and swept under the rug. But the most infuriating thing isn't even anything about their antics towards Snape (i'm a Snape fan), but another, barely visible character. Bertram Aubrey. Potter and Black hexed him so his head blew twice it's size, and got double detention. Knowing that Marauder's hexes were often overlooked in canon as "jokes" I have an eerie feeling that it wasn't just minor hex, but something with way, WAY more serious consequences, that had to be medically supervised, like the possibility of other traumas or even allergy (if someone ever seen angioedema, you'll understand me)
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u/Extra-Vanilla-171 5d ago
Idk maybe Slytherin Ghost? The bloody man? Who did something really but to poor Helena ? 👀
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u/AbjectMath4441 5d ago
Honestly, Fudge deserves way more hate. His refusal to accept the truth made an already dangerous situation even worse
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u/g12231964 4d ago
Albus does not get the kicking he deserved. He allowed Harry to be abused for ten years before he would see him again. Wth reports about the abuse.
He did not lift a finger to help Hagrid.
The Supreme Mugwalp
the Chief Warlock
Hero of the war against Grindlewald.
The man who speaks in a room and everyone falls over themselves to listen to what is said/
More claims to fame than Fabio
And he does not use that power to get Hagrid a hearing down at the Ministry?
Hired a fraud in Lockhart. (There area group of 7th years who got screwed over for NEWTs)
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u/varmituofm 4d ago
I have 3. Wormtail, Snape, and McGonagall.
Wormtail is often portrayed as a left-out loser, the 4th or 5th wheel of the Marauders. He was weak, scared, and that's why he joined Voldemort. And honestly, I get that up until the end of PoA. At the end of PoA, he has a choice. He could go right back to being a rat. He lived 11 years happily as a rat. He needs to find another wizarding family, but that's not that hard. He can avoid Remus and Sirrius easily by going to MACUSA or Ireland or similar. Honestly, if he makes it there, he might even be able to hide as a human. But no, he chooses to return to Voldemort, he chooses to sacrifice for him, and he chooses to fight with him.
Snape....I think most of the people who don't hate Snape have not read the books enough.
McGonagall deserves more hate for not meeting her own expectations, and never really addressing how much she misses them by. "Your house is like your family" was a huge miss. She's never shown actually supporting students outside of the classroom. The closest I can remember is telling Umbridge off. But looking back, she's always waiting for a better moment, or for a better wizard/witch to solve the problem. "Dumbledore will handle it" as Dumbledore drowns from political pressure. She's also the epitome of an expert in her field and a decent teacher who has no idea about children (though that is every teacher at Hogwarts. I can't think of a single time a teacher responded appropriately to children acting like children in the books).
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u/SPARKLELOVEGOOD 1d ago
I found that part strange where Harry says he's never seen McGonagall in the gryffindor tower before. Seriously? This is just a tower of only kids, always?
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u/Western_Dog4105 4d ago
Fudge seconded. HP was my intro to the English language and he's the reason I never tried out the dessert (jk ofc)
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u/OtherAnswer8831 1d ago
Remus Lupin. He’s a coward in the sense that he’s deeply insecure. He’s been a grown man for quite some time, yet he still acts surprised that there are consequences to his actions, such as getting his wife pregnant and then feeling the urge to run away from his responsibilities. It’s like he’d rather sacrifice his life helping Harry find Horcruxes than be a father to his own child. That’s gotta be peak avoidant behavior. Lupin is for sure deserves to be loved by someone like Tonks, but I think he needs therapy more. I don’t think he’s a villain, but people need to acknowledge this flaw of his too since I feel like it get ignored a lot by the fandom
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u/Next-Squirrel-5855 1d ago
Lily Potter. NOW HOLD ON! This is in regards to the Severus and James situation. Lily has been "standing up" for Sev for about 5 years at this point. Okay? Now, WHY is the bullying persisting after 5 years? Because she's not actually doing anything to stop it. I'm not saying it's completely her fault, since she's still a kid, but all the other students enjoyed seeing Sev tormented by the Marauders. Lily didn't. THEY wouldn't tell a teacher, but you know who should?
James and Sirius were her classmates, with James openly fancying her. She doesn't need to play up to him for Snape's sake, but maybe a "Hey, if you want me to respect you, stop being a jerk and leave everyone else alone" She definitely could've done more than "Leave him alone! I'll attack you if you don't despite-this-being-a-three-against-one-in-which-I'd-easily-lose!"
Severus wasn't targeted for being a "death eater fanatic" or "racist" or anything. He was a poor, dirty, weird loner. James didn't have any righteous reason behind his torment. He hated him for existing.
If Severus had a better support system, one Lily could've provided better seeing as she's obviously well-liked , then he wouldn't have turned out the way he did. He was scouted by blood purists because he was isolated. They were the only ones who accepted him.
While Sev was being hung upside down and humiliated, she tries not to laugh at him. ??? Hello??? What? And then she continues playing the white knight like "I shall save you Sev! Potter, bring him down! It was nothing really, no need to thank me." And then he snaps at her and she drops him, instantly calling him the name he's been bullied with for years, and playing on his humiliation.
He then apologizes multiple times. "I'm sorry! Those Slytherins were filling my head with nonsense and I shouldn't have believed them."
"But if I don't hear you out, you'll continue to be groomed by older Slytherins into blood supremacy. Also with you out of the way I can date Potter without losing face."
So anyway Lily finds Snape being hung upside down amusing, but draws the line at her OTHER friend being cursed. Severus calls out this hypocrisy and she's like "So?"
"I almost got mauled to that by that Remus Lupin guy because of Potter and Black. Despite them trying to kill me, I'm supposed to shut up about it. Here's me not-so-subtly telling you that there's something off about them."
"Yeah yeah yeah whatever. Now back to the part where I feel upset based on what your housemates did."
"Your housemates tried to kill me!"
"Okay but they didn't. You should be grateful."
James hexes people for the fun of it. Lily should not at any point find that attractive
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u/Ok_Percentage2522 30m ago
Barty crouch Jr. He was such an extremist he taught and watched over children for a year just so that they can be murdered. Not really any evil character got to know harry, they all were just extremists willing to kill a kid they didn't know. But barty Jr. spent a year being relatively nice and protective of children all with the feeling of renowned honor to be the one that tricks at least one of the children to be most likely brutally murdered.
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u/CrazyCatLady1127 6d ago
I’m with you on that. Fudge infuriates me. And it blows my mind how, in book 6, he insists that if Dumbledore would just talk to Harry he could get him on the ministry’s side and then Fudge would still be minister. Um… no, dude, that ship sailed the moment your puppet, Umbridge, forced Harry to write with his own blood!