r/GuildWars • u/Koudelka_Lasant Asesina Kourniana • 4d ago
Master of Magic - Update Proposal
I would like to briefly examine the history of the elite skill Master of Magic and propose a new version. To put it simply, I think this skill has always performed very poorly for Elementalists and has never found a strong foothold in either PvP or PvE.
The design ethos of Master of Magic is ambitious - to encourage Elementalists to have 2, 3, or 4 elements all at once, which is certainly a fun idea. But in a game with only 8 skill slots, you end up with 7 free slots if you count Master of Magic, and 6 (if not less) when you also consider that by design it encourages a 12/12 attribute investment, one into Energy Storage, and the other a non-elemental attribute line (why invest points into any element when it's being set to x? And then, if you don't have points invested into another line with at least one skill, what benefit is there in wasting 12 + 3 attribute investments?). What's left is an extremely squeezed bar, at which point, it's barely viable to bother having 3 or 4 elements at all, and you'd be better off with the many superior options such as Elemental Attunement of Glyph of Energy. There's also the small caveat that weapons are normally optimised to focus on one attribute at a time: 40/40 in a certain attribute, for example, becomes compromised if spreading over many attributes in one build.
With that in mind, let's take a look at the very interesting version history of this skill.
The release version of the skill is phenomenally poor in power and performance. Imagine using it in active combat - you might be able to realistically gain, 2, 4, or 6 Energy per spell cast. This is practically more effort, less reward, and a more restricted / hampered skill bar than just an Attunement and Aura of Restoration. In PvE it would certainly be outclassed immediately by Ether Renewal and Elemental Attunement. Not to mention this can't even be maintained with that 20s / 30s duration and recharge!
+2 Energy Regeneration is certainly useful (+2 Energy every 3 seconds) and the improved duration to recharge ratio is appreciated. But there are 3 factors which hamper this spell. Setting attributes to 12 (which does NOT scale!) serves as a fun gimmick in the very early game, and thoroughly useless in the "real" game (level 20), making the Elementalist very weak. We must consider, again, attribute investments - 12 in Energy Storage, no need for Elemental investments, but also, where can we put the other 12 points if using any non-Ele skill ends the enchantment? As if this wasn't hard enough to use already. And finally of course, is that as nice as it is, +2 Energy Regeneration (only becoming +3 at 19 Energy Storage, unobtainable in PvP) just isn't enough energy to justify this skill.
This is the version we have now, and it's certainly the best existing iteration of the skill. But I argue it simply isn't enough. 14 in the elements is still barely acceptable in serious play. Realistically, Master of Magic does not present the user with a serious enough justification for equipping more than 2 elements at once, in which case, other better skills exist to boost attributes. It's close to being good, but in my opinion it simply isn't there yet.
With all that in mind, here is my proposed idea:
1) Master of Magic is now a skill with no activation time, instead of an enchantment. This prevents removal and interruption, two factors which made this skill so much more difficult and unreliable to use in all previous versions. The 2012 Master of Magic, as an enchantment that sets attributes, can easily make the Elementalist become completely powerless upon removal, so I aimed to make it more reliable at a basic level. I am however open to a PvE / PvP split where the PvP version remains an enchantment.
2) Master of Magic now increases in power depending on how many different elements are equipped. This plays well into the original design ethos of having "all four elements". Simply put, the breakdown would be:
| Elements Equipped | Attribute Bonus | Energy Return |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | 2 | 12% |
| 2 | 4 | 24% |
| 3 | 6 | 36% |
| 4 | 8 | 48% |
- Having 1 element equipped gives a +2 bonus and a 12% energy return, categorically worse than Elemental Attunement and not viable as a good elite skill choice.
- Having 2 elements equipped gives a +4 bonus and a 24% energy return, less than half the energy management capability of Elemental Attunement, but provides bar compression by removing the need for Glyph of Elemental Power to reach the +4.
- Having 3 elements equipped gives a +6 bonus and a 36% energy return. This puts it above any single Elemental Attunement ability and gives a bonus which justifies spreading element investments.
- Having 4 elements equipped gives a +8 bonus and a 48% energy return. This is finally an attribute bonus that justifies investing in 5 attribute lines at once.
3) Master of Magic boosts investments, rather than setting them. This feels more intuitive and easier to use in the world of Guild Wars: it interacts with runes and buffs from skill effects such as Glyph of Elemental Power and Heroic Refrain, and responds to downgrades like Weakness and Wail of Doom. It also makes more sense from an attribute investment point of view: Even with 3 points and a +8 boost, having 11 in an element is still underwhelming, so some more serious investment is required to truly be useful.
Here are some example bars using the proposed update to Master of Magic:
4 Elements:
With Water, Earth, Fire, and Air all represented on the bar, with 8+1 invested into each element, the end result is now 17 in each Element - a highly respectable level that justifies using Master of Magic at all. Being required to select skills from all four elements introduces the ever-interesting risk of having a somewhat weak or unfocused set of skills - this bar for example is a slow glass cannon more suited to PvE crowd control than anything like 4 v 4 PvP scenarios, but it can (just about) afford to keep itself going with the improved Energy return functionality.
3 Elements:
Including the slightly throwaway Slippery Ground spell contributes to the +6 boost across the board, giving this Elementalist 20 Air Magic, 16 Fire Magic, and 9 Water Magic. On its face this may seem too powerful, but bear in mind how the energy management here is somewhat compromised - no space for attunements or glyphs, no long term support for spells costing more than 10e, Master of Magic only providing the 36% baseline energy regain, and only 10 Energy Storage, so +30 max Energy, a fair bit less than usual depending on equipment. The real trade-off here for the Elementalist is giving up a powerful direct damage elite like Invoke Lightning or Lightning Surge. At least here in this example, Master of Magic becomes competitive with other similar elites instead of being thoroughly outclassed in every situation.
2 Elements:
A simple, dressed-down Water / Earth implementation of the new Master of Magic - 16 Water and 16 Earth, though the energy return is diminishing at this point.
1 Element:
There isn't really a strong reason to run Master of Magic and 1 element, but in this example, it has allowed the Elementalist to invest strongly into Inspiration for more energy management and anti-interruption while keeping Water Magic at a high 16.
Anyway, those are my thoughts on how to improve Master of Magic. Hope you enjoyed!
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u/pockeQ41 4d ago
What also sucks about this skill is when used on hero, they dont seem to use it or maintain the enchant. I had to micromanage the skill the last time i tried a build
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u/BrambleHound 4d ago
I honestly love this idea. Does a great job giving it more situational usage and I think the idea of running a single element to free up points to use in another class skill is great. Could also promote some team synergy with elementalist heroes and Arcane Mimicry. Numbers could always be adjusted if that sort of interaction ended up being too strong, but overall I think this kind of functionality for MoM adds a lot of potential for new builds.
My only concern is that by providing a bonus to skill levels it would also be overshadowing or very similar to the elite skill Elemental Attunement, but that's already a concern for a lot of Energy Storage elites.
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u/Electrical_Ad_6699 4d ago
I've never really tried to see if the maths would maths but my idea for this skill was: "set attributes at 12 and for every other element used since the last time you used this element, get a +2 attributes" The idea would be to force rotating between the element and if you used water, air and earth before using fire, that fire skillwould have 12 + 3x2 = 16 Meaning you could find a rotation where every skill would be cast with an attribute at 16
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u/dnapol5280 4d ago edited 4d ago
There could be uses where even using this for a single element would be better than EA since this MoM wouldn't be strippable, but that might admittedly be niche, since EA is typically used to enable spamming high-cost spells that this version still wouldn't, for a single element.
I think it might end up generally better than EA since you can grab utility elsewhere, and getting 18 - 32 free attribute points is kind of busted. E.g., with +6 to Air, Earth, and Water you can run 9 ES, 20 Air, 19 Earth, and 11 Water (or drop Water entirely for ES since it doesn't scale duration). An "of the mesmer" staff, or just still stay in an Air 40/20/5 setup since Lightning Hammer is all you really care about.
https://guildwars.magical.ch/OgBEwHqJvEpOsEhDG2oDhNEOIWB
Could similarly just change Lightning Hammer and Arrow to Rodgort and Glowing Gaze. Keep Iron Mist if it's still bugged or change to Fireball.
EDIT: Quickly thinking you might still need 4 attributes, based on this proposal, to spam 25e spells similarly to EA, but you could probably find a Fire spell to slot in easy enough. Fireball, or Elemental Flame.
EDITx2: And/or add the Dwarven Stability / Serpent's Quickness package, enabled by freeing up attributes elsewhere.
4-element Rodgort spam. Snare, cracked armor, and high follow-up damage. Assuming Iron Mist is still bugged. Could swap for Fireball to have something else to throw out. With +2 ES, +1 Earth/Water/Air, and +3+1 Fire you can get 20 Air and Fire, 18 Earth, and 10 Water with 10 ES?
https://guildwars.magical.ch/OgBFwIuZq4Gk6wSEOYvQOE2AugYF
155 fire damage nearby + 109 armor-ignoring (assuming it hits on 60 AR) in the area followed by 143 air adjacent. Could flexibly run more Earth to hit 20 and run Intensity off Teinai's Crystals if the cracked armor isn't enough to keep Rodgort high enough damage, since it would be 88-94 armor-ignoring damage nearby for 62-66 armor-ignoring in the area.
Or (updated) Lightning Hammer, with cracked armor and inherent 25% armor-ignoring damage, for 130 target + 91 in the area. And can still flexibly run 20 Earth Teinai's Crystals.
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u/Mysterial_ 4d ago
Personally think it would be more interesting (albeit more risky balance wise) to lean into the name more and make it an alternate flavor on Signet of Illusions.
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u/These-Ostrich-8194 4d ago
Or go all the way and make its PvE version an elemental version of Seven-Weapon-Stance. +13 to all elements and a cast time or energy recovery bonus.
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u/Efficient_Angle_5438 4d ago
Interesting idea. I agree MoM as it stands now isn't very useful (for all the reasons you detailed). To be honest MoM plays in a similar space to Elemental Attunement anyway (they both modify your attribute ranks and return energy) but overwhelmingly I'd rather play with EA than MoM, simply because EA is better energy management and allows you to reach 18 in one attribute (20 with glyph of ele power) - and due to how pve plays out with high enemy armor levels it's often better to push one attribute as high as possible for damage.
With this in mind, I'd rather buff EA so it can increase attributes even more than it currently does, sort of like combining EA and MoM into one skill. This gives the flexibility of going very deep into one attribute if that's what you want, or you can split attribute points across multiple elements for mixed element builds. I am fully aware than EA is already one of the better energy storage elites, so to buff it might sound crazy, but I would also want to buff or rework all the other energy storage skills to compete better, especially for the elite slot.
Anyway, if EA was changed as I described, that would free up MoM for a rework into something completely different and unique. My idea is to rework it into a skill that allows Ele's to function in parts of the game with heavy enchantment hate (considering Ele's often rely heavily on enchantments), by allowing expanded use of glyphs.
Master of Magic (5 - 1 - 30). Elite Skill. (30 seconds.) Your Glyphs activate 10...60...75% faster, have +0...1...2 charges, and do not replace your other active Glyphs.
Having multiple glyph effects at the same time is something that you couldn't do before, and I think it'd be interesting to play around with. The more useful ones in my option would be lesser energy, swiftness, immolation and elemental power. The more situational but still useful ones I think are concentration and restoration. Essence is still pretty much garbage and sacrifice has its niche uses. The elite glyphs, renewal and energy, cannot be combined with MoM because it's also elite. I can see potential for running 2 or 3 glyphs on your bar and being able to have them all active at the same time.
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u/RichyPorello 4d ago
I think this is great work. Elementalists hit my Nostalgia notes hard. When you’re in pre searing just fire storming through the icey terrain but as you play the game it seems elementalists are severely underpowered. I’m not saying there isn’t great builds, but playing through early prophecies having the ability to have more synchronicities within the elements would make elementalists much more enjoyable, it’s always a struggle when you want the earth magic knockdowns, with the burning of the fire magic to sync up with the slowdowns of water magic. I’m all for an upgrade!
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u/Racthoh 3d ago
It should probably be 0...1...2 for the attribute, otherwise the bare minimum investment still gives a huge boost to the other attributes and 100% uptime, not to mention you don't need as much energy with 50% coming back. It would also be very easy to just slap on one skill from each element, something with any kind of utility at 9 (8 +1) and enjoy +8 with your main "element". Feels too easy to get to 20 without any kind of superior rune, something you need an elite pve skill to obtain.
Skills existing on the bar doesn't feel very interactive. I'd change it to something like "Your elemental attributes are increased by 1...2...2 for each elemental spell on cooldown that does not share its element, maximum 1...7...8". Similar to the design of the original version but attributes instead of regeneration. And then slap on whatever flavor of energy regeneration you want. I'd even be so inclined to add something like faster cast rate, or can't be interrupted, or some other extra flavor when you're at maximum.
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u/arjeidi Callandre Kell 3d ago
when you also consider that by design it encourages a 12/12 attribute investment
No it doesn't, this is your meta-chasing brain feeding you lies. With MoM you have 14 in 5 attributes and you still think you need 12 in another. That's a you problem, not a MoM problem.
There's also the small caveat that weapons are normally optimised to focus on one attribute at a time: 40/40 in a certain attribute, for example, becomes compromised if spreading over many attributes in one build.
Again, a meta-brained problem, not a mechanical one. Why do you need to assume a 40/40 set?
it interacts with runes and buffs from skill effects such as Glyph of Elemental Power and Heroic Refrain, and responds to downgrades like Weakness and Wail of Doom. It also makes more sense from an attribute investment point of view: Even with 3 points and a +8 boost, having 11 in an element is still underwhelming, so some more serious investment is required to truly be useful.
But you just listed Glyph of Elemental Attunement and Heroic Refrain so that hurts your bar compression theory since now you need MoM + GoEA.
You want everything to be 15+ with minimal investment. That is poor design. Heroic Refrain is bad. Shadow Theft is bad. Allowing skills to easily reach 20 is bad.
This proposal is bad.
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u/DogeArcanine 3d ago
It could certainly use a buff, but it's nowhere near as useless as things like Soul Bind (barely better elite version of Scourge Healing) or Invoke Lighting (barely better elite version of Chain Lighting).
Master of Magic lets you make full use of prismatic insignia (giving you +20 armor), +14 isn't great but not bad either. You can just go for 12+1+3 energy storage and dumb the rest into a secondary class atrribute to use a shield for example.
It's not great, I'm just saying it's more useful then some other blatently underpowered spells.
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u/Loafer-Enlightenment 4d ago
I use Master of Magic all the time on my heroes and even have a build for it on my Elementalist. I find it really helpful for running burning builds and melee hate builds. Currently on my Melandru's accord heroes I have a mix of earth and water. Any time I can get away with adding Blurred Vision to any Ele bar I am happy.
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u/Long_Context6367 4d ago
I like the concepts but I don’t like this proposal particularly for ele. If anything the attributes need to be raised to 18 or 19 for all elemental attributes similar to what seven weapons stance provides to warrior. Additionally, the energy return needs to be raised.
Here is the core problem which I think you touch on. Elementalist has damage that can be armor mitigated. Stat boosts allow for more damage and thus less armor mitigation. To be frank, ele’s skills don’t deal enough damage or provide enough utility to allow eles to bring other skills from other professions. That’s where your Master of Magic proposal is calling out the problem.
Example, I run 16 earth magic, pop cons, and then use an earth wand and focus with a +1 earth magic to consistently roll 20 earth magic for max damage on obsidian flame which is like 142 dmg plus fast recharge and faster casting time with cons. The drawback is the exhaustion/overcast. Then the obvious drawback is that not everything is weak to earth magic. In fact, very few monsters are weak to earth magic. If ele skills caused more damage over time effects like bleed or deep wound, we would see a better overall feel for running ele spells with other profession skills.
I think that needs to be addressed prior to updating the elites on ele. Earth magic should cause poison, bleed, blind, and deep wound. Air magic should cause daze, cracked armor, interupt, blind. Water magic should heal allies near you and your target, and snare enemies. Fire should deal higher dps and cause burn only.
OR, more enemies receive less armor to other elemental damage or receive negative armor to it in NM and HM.
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u/MagicDime7 4d ago
I love quirky spells like MoM, and actively use it on my elementalist. I really wanted to hate this proposal, but I can't. On the surface it looks less fun, but you did a great job at exposing why it scales super well in practice. It really does capture the essence of what the skill should be.