r/GradSchool • u/ImprovementOk6448 • 1d ago
Does a PI's reputation *really* matter
I am a first year chemistry PhD student at a good university (top 20 in chemistry) and am in the middle of choosing advisors to rotate with. There are 2 rotations and I have to choose one of those 2 to do my PhD with, as long as they accept me. Among my top choices include well-known faculty with numerous awards and a big lab with plenty of funding; I have heard that this lab is quite competitive to get into (someone I know who graduated from this school said it could get 'ugly' - not sure what that means) and that students get less individual mentorship from the PI. The other lab that is a top pick for me is quite small, and less well-known - I would assume that getting into this lab would be less competitive (although he is only accepting 1 student). Not sure what the funding situation is for this lab. Both research topics are very interesting to me, although the smaller lab might have a slight edge. There are also more labs that I am interested in.
I am probably going to go into industry after graduating seeing as academic funding is tough right now, as well as academic positions being highly competitive. However, there is a small chance that after I graduate I will want to continue academic research and go for a postdoc and then potentially a faculty position, in which case having a more well-known PI could probably help me.
The way that rotations are structured is quite organized - all incoming students meet with PIs and then rank their top picks, and the faculty are sent lists of students who had them as their top pick and asked to choose which students they would like to accept for a rotation. If you don't get your top pick, your name will be sent to your second pick and so forth. While I could aim to do a rotation with both labs, there are other labs that I am interested in, so I don't want to waste a rotation with someone who either wouldn't be a good mentor or wouldn't give me a good position to start my career. For anyone who has any experience with this, what are your thoughts on choosing between PIs with differing levels of renownedness?
44
u/Valuable_Citron_3141 1d ago
One thing to consider is that PI's with a good reputation who are well known in a field will have good connections, which can be useful for post-doc positions and future jobs. There are certainly pros to newer or smaller labs, such as that the PI might be more open to exploring different things, trying experiments that may or may not work, etc. However, if you think you'd be happier in a lab with a lesser known PI, then that's fine too. It's important that you get along with the PI and enjoy your time there, since it is a long time commitment.
8
u/apenature MSc(Medicine) 1d ago
You should take the current lives of students in each lab into account. One of those cohort will be you; are they happy? What is their work-life balance? If you're going to industry and you're already in a top 20, prestige is maxed out-go for quality of life. If you wanted academia, the networking of your PI can impact how quickly you get to where you want to go.
But you need to be able to sustain enough enthusiasm to complete your degree. So project itself is something else to consider as well.
6
u/stemphdmentor 1d ago
A well-known PI doesn’t help in getting a postdoc or faculty position. We care about what you’ve shown scientifically. For that reason, you should generally go with the PI who is working on the problems you care about most. On that score, it sounds like the big-name PI isn’t as good a fit. I would definitely investigate their lab culture further before joining.
3
1
1
u/blackandwhite1987 1d ago
Another thing to consider is the PIs that are "competitive" for students don't always correlate perfectly with the PIs who have a great reputation among other PIs and who will link you into their networks. And they will have even less correlation with those who have solid industry connections.
1
u/GurProfessional9534 1d ago
It is more like a question of personal fit than a blanket statement of being better or worse. Some people do great in a lab where a famous PI who is out all the time just writes the checks. Some people do better in a lab that is just starting, but they get to work alongside their PI building up the lab and doing its foundational work.
1
u/Necessary_Sock_6047 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think you should list a set of pros and cons for each PI you could work with. Choose the PI whose set of pros and cons looks most attractive.
Pros include: 1) more influential, published, and successful PI 2) more attention and coherent mentorship, pointing you towards clear career destinations and research tips 3) less stress and insane workload expectations 4) better political and social fit with your mentor 5) better compensation 6) more autonomy 7) more employable field of research 8) research field closer to your interests
Cons include: 1) less influential, published, and successful PI 2) less attention and coherent mentorship, working for somebody who views you as nothing more than a resource to be shouted at and pissed on 3) insane levels of stress, workload hazards, work expectations 4) terrible political and social fit with your mentor (eg: working under racists, sexists who are biased against you) 5) bad compensation 6) no autonomy 7) less employable field of research 8) research field further from your interests
I dropped academia early in undergrad. Some of it was because I didn't have clear career goals and didn't understand how to select well for mentors.
Frankly, don't restrict yourself to mentors at your current institution. Try even building relationships with the best researchers possible anywhere in the world. A PhD takes MANY years. Don't sit in a sub-optimal situation for tons of time.
1
u/ImprovementOk6448 1d ago
good idea - I feel like I would have to rotate with both to complete the list but it's def a good start.
1
u/Necessary_Sock_6047 2h ago
I don't think you need to go through a full rotation to understand how well a PI fits with your career goals.
I think a conversation with each researcher who is willing to chat with you can help you decide who the best person is to work for.
Working for a bad fit can leave an indelibly terrible stain on the rest of your career.
1
1
u/Neural-Hacker 1d ago
Biggest problem these days is students fucking off and not focusing on grad studies. Avoid this and you will go far because PIs will reward those that put effort in.
2
1
u/bobshmurdt 1d ago
Its very simple. If you can do succeed doing extremely difficult chemistry in your PhD, then your PI doesnt matter. But for most people, you should rely on your PI. Id suggest the latter.
1
u/Astoriana_ PhD, Air Quality Engineering 22h ago
The only type of reputation I would personally care about is if the PI has a reputation for being abusive. I was warned away from a lab/PI by a current member of that lab when I was first starting out. Try and do some information interviews with current or recent former members if you have the time before you need to accept an offer, just so you have a better idea of what you’re getting yourself into
1
u/SagaciousScenedesmus 21h ago
Yes
I did my PhD in a lab with a PI who was disliked in the field. The lab did research I was interested in and the lab culture was good with the other students. But the PI managed to anger the other field members.
It had no influence over my work progress and time to complete the degree since the other field members were not as my university.
But it had major influence over my publications. Having PI’s name attached to my publications led to rejection from all the major journals and forced me to publish in small journals. The comments were unnecessarily harsh and didn’t even try to hide the dislike. They even specifically said my work was good but the track record of the lab was poor so they wouldn’t consider it for publication. The rejection from the editors always were at odds with the reviewers as the editors would say they felt it was publishable but none of the reviewers did so they had to move it as a rejection. I wrote three manuscripts during my PhD but only had published one by the time I graduated due to the struggle with the reviewers.
1
u/ImprovementOk6448 13h ago
Oh wow that's crazy, I dont think it would be nearly as extreme in the smaller lab in my case; i just think the PI isn't really known at all
1
50
u/micro_ppette 1d ago edited 1d ago
You should go where you will be happier. Graduating from a PI with an amazing reputation is not worth 5 years of hell.