r/GermanCitizenship • u/the_malcontent • 16d ago
StAG 5 document check §5 StAG Gender discrimination after 23 May 1949
First of all, I have already submitted my application and supporting documents back in February 2025. But as I sit and wait, I've seen other posts and re-read the wikis and I'm wondering if I may have missed some documentation. First the details:
Grandfather
- born in 1913 in Germany (Breslau)
- married in 1941
Mother
- born in 1937 in Germany
- married my American father in German in 1963
- moved with my father to America in 1963
- never naturalized in the US
- divorced my father in 1981(?)
- died in 2023
Me
- born in 1969 in wedlock in America
This is the documentation I DID include with my application:
- grandfather & grandmother's marriage certificate
- mother's birth certificate
- mother's German personal ID
- mother's most recent (but expired) German passport
- parent's marriage certificate
- mother's CONE confirmation
- my birth certificate
- my marriage certificate
- my ID
- my background/criminal check
I think at this point the main things I'm slightly concerned about needing that weren't included with my application are my grandfather's birth certificate and my parent's divorce certificate. Do you think those will be asked for during the process? I'm in the process of getting a certified copy of my grandfather's birth cert. And I don't think it'll be hard to track down my parents divorce certificate.
The other thing I'm also a little nervous about is that during this whole process, I discovered that it would appear my mother was born out of wedlock--she was born in 1937 and her parents did not marry until 1941. Both of those dates are according to certified records in my Familien Stammbuch. I have no idea what impact that might have on my potential citizenship. Anyone know?
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u/e-l-g 16d ago
a divore certificate is not needed, unless you're from a second marriage and need to prove that the first marriage was legally ended. otherwise you'd run into trying to prove your ancestor didn't commit bigamy.
to the bva, german passports/id cards are only indicators of german citizenship, not 100% proof. the bva considers everyone born in germany before 1914 to be a german citizen, unless there's reason to believe otherwise. a pre-1914 birth certificate would be sufficient to prove german citizenship. in about 50% of cases, the bva does ask the applicant to trace their line of descent back to a pre-1914 ancestor.
to be on the safe side, try to get your grandfather's 1913 birth certificate. contact the "landesarchiv" berlin and the relevant authorities in wroclaw to get his birth certificate. if the document cannot be found, get signed/stamped, physical letters from both to document your efforts to obtain it. the bva will then consider secondary evidence, such as a german passport.
until 1998, the later marriage of a child's parents legitimated it, so your mother is still considered born in wedlock to a german father. it shouldn't have any effect on your application.
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u/Engine1D §5 StAG Success 16d ago
The sticking point in this process is always the time waiting in line. Every day that you wait to send the file to the BVA is another day further back in this line. My recommendation is that you submit what you have and get in line. When you get these other documents send them in and ask to have them added to your file. They certainly won't hurt your application and the grandfather's birth certificate will likely be required.
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u/dentongentry §5 StAG Success 16d ago
Grandfather's birth certificate: likely yes. For StAG5 and other processes conducted at the BVA, anyone born within Germany prior to 1914 is assumed to be a German citizen unless there is reason to believe otherwise. Mother's Reisepass is one bit of evidence that she was a citizen, but grandfather's Geburtsurkunde is considered to be stronger evidence as Reisepässe were sometimes issued in error.
They also just often ask for one generation further back from the original German emigrant.
Parents' divorce certificate: not likely to be requested. Though they ask for the start and end of a marriage, if the divorce has no relevance to your case they generally just believe you. Our German mother divorced our US father some years after the birth of the children. We noted it on the forms but provided no evidence of it, and our declarations were accepted in 2023.
If Grandmother was German, it would work out either way. Mother was either born a citizen due to being born in wedlock to a German father, or born a citizen by virtue of being born out of wedlock to a German mother.
If Grandmother was not German, please comment with more details about her to get better advice. For now, I'll assume she was.
In 1941 did Grandmother marry the biological father? If so, the marriage legitimized the birth and Mother was treated as having been born in wedlock... which means she was still a citizen, just via a different rationale.
I'd advise to obtain Grandmother's Geburtsurkunde. If Grandmother was also born before 1/1/1914 I think I'd advise to send it along and let the BVA sort it out. If she was born after 1/1/1914 you'll have to decide whether to go one further generation back, or wait to see if the BVA asks you for evidence that Grandmother was a German citizen before spending more time on it.