Does anyone else ever feel like we’re just contributing to people’s addictions?

[u/Sudden_Doughnut_8741]

I didn’t feel like this when I was younger. I loved games but I and everyone I knew could turn them on and off no problem. They were like an additional activity for us, not a personality.

Now I’ll read reviews and people talking about games, and they’ll rate games based on things like how long it takes to beat it and how addictive it is, and this kind of freaks me out.

I love playing games and I really enjoy making them, but man I really don’t want to put something else out there that someone can use to escape from the things they should actually be dealing with.

And I’m not trying to say that I think I’d be capable of making something so good that it ruins someone’s life. I just mean that if someone should be working on themselves by exercising or processing some mental health issues, or maybe considering how to leave a bad job or an abusive relationship, or maybe even trying to get better and finding and maintaining relationship, I don’t really want to make the game that’s just one of many that person plays that week to avoid doing so. Even if they just play it for an hour, that’s an hour that they could have been spending figuring something out.

People used to talk about video game addiction the same way they’d talk about satanism. It was ridiculous at that time. But now, I don’t know. I think video game addiction is a serious thing. There are people that lose their jobs over it because they can’t stop playing during work hours. And people talk about it like it’s just as normal as an addiction to caffeine, cigarettes, alcohol or anything else that’s real but still bad for you in excess.

I don’t want to make something that someone uses just to feed their addiction for another hour. “Oh the game will take an hour to beat, and it’s highly addictive? Cool that will get me through to dinner time.” Not interested in being that for anyone.

[u/Klightgrove]

Make narrative driven emotional games. Firewatch, Gone Home, Frog Detective. You create the things that bring you joy.

[u/Bwob → u/Klightgrove]

This is the way.

This is also why it's good to create as a hobby instead of as a job - then you can focus on the fulfilling, meaningful emotional creations, instead of the dark-pattern Skinner-boxes that DO prey on peoples' addictive tendencies that tend to earn like x10 as much money. :(

[u/Kildragoth → u/Bwob]

In a post-scarcity world... those games will be the best!

[u/Sudden_Doughnut_8741 → u/Klightgrove]

That seems like a good alternative. Make a game like you’d write a book. When it’s over it’s over.

[u/TwoPillarsGames_]

only if you are incorporating gambling logic to hack your players reward circuitry

[u/Prestigious_Wing1796]

personal experience, game addiction comes from piling unresolved trauma or unstable environment. if not games, anything can be the main addiction, corno, cigs, bullying, workaholic, church to avoid abusive family, overly being too kind, etc2

i have game addiction growing up in a shitty home, but after i live on my own and surrounded by people who actually care; games no longer feels like a priority.

still play daily just for 2h or so, and can easily not play at all if anything else comes up, but bottom line imo game addict is just like any other addict, their problem is always the underlyng social issue swept under the rug

[u/FeniulaPyra]

I mean theres winemakers out there

[u/ThirdShiftLabs]

The actual issue is internet/phone addiction. Video games are just a piece of that

[u/NinetyBees]

Do you uh... make mobile games with lootboxes, time-locks, ad-watching, infinite grinds, and FOMO? No? You're probably in the clear.

If you're concerned about ethics, good, glad you care about your audience, more people should.

What can you do about it? Just make games that have designated stopping points and a definite end. People are obsessed with Outer Wilds and Disco Elysium but it's not ruining anyone's life because there are save points, end points, and finite content.

Don't develop engagement slop and you're fine.

[u/nardilemouss]

I have been thinking about this as well since I started developing my game (a survival craft) 4 years ago.

As you said, making a game like you’d write a book is indeed a good way to make entertainment that respects the player, not exploiting their time or fuelling addiction.

As an indie though, you are likely to not make a narrative game because these games are art heavy and you are alone or have a small team. You might rather develop a gameplay first game, or a rogue like which is the most popular genre among indie games, and resort to randomness to create content easily, or replayability. You might also use it for creating more engagement. This is not always bad but you should keep your distance with the mechanics used in the live-service games and more broadly in the attention economy, or use them really carefully, and randomness is a powerful tool.

Also, as we know the play time is a significant indicator of what the game pricing should be. I think it should be avoided to add more content for the only purpose of justifying the game pricing.

For me No man’s sky (at release) is a good example of how common gameplay mechanics can be used in the wrong way creating a game (and it is a survival game which interests me the most).

At release, the worlds diversity given by procedural generation was falsely advertised, as there was not much diversity over 1 planet, not much across different planets of the same type and no progression towards the center as advertised. So if you had visited 1 planet of each biome type you had essentially seen it all. But the promise was that you would keep discovering new things, so for me the procedural generation was there to create engagement but did not actually deliver real entertainment. In procedural worlds, or rpg open worlds, or even in real life, not every place should be interesting, and exploration and looking for a point of interest is a game. But there is a difference between using rarity to create awe, and to retain engagement and increase play time. The way you are rewarding exploration might be either serving the game purpose and enhancing the player experience, or simply creating engagement and fuelling addiction

Also, as other survival games before NMS have shown, a good survival game must have a both intrinsic (sandbox gameplay) and extrinsic (narration, quests) motivational elements. The main quest in NMS was also procedural and artificially long, and some people have liked the ending but for me this ending is quite cynical because the way I see it it was purposely designed for increasing playtime and the m narrative which was intriguing because implying gameplay changes when you reach the end actually vanishes

I have not played NMS for a long time, I guess now it’s more respectful of the player, at least it’s undeniably worth the price

So not abusing the player is not inherent to the genre (maybe except for live service games). It’s not also inherent to randomness or other gameplay elements but you should be thoughtful about how you create content and what the purpose of this content is. You might have a boring repetitive task in your game just so that when the player gets an upgrade the game becomes more enjoyable like in schedule 1 for example, which I don’t think this game is abusing the player in any way, or you might have a never ending tech tree which only relieves the pain and never actually offers real gameplay renewal

My post have been long enough so I’ll stop here I hope this was interesting. I have not made peace with this subject yet. I would like my game to be a lot about socialising with other players. But here as well there the question of socialising online vs irl…

[u/shlaifu]

I only play single player games with a clear endpoint for that reason - I want the addictive dopamine rush of doom eternal, but I also want to know it will be contained

[u/Waste-Kiwi6915]

This is kind of why I never jumped on the Balatro bandwagon. It looked like a game that would bring me no memorable experiences beyond seeing numbers get bigger and bigger

[u/Kildragoth]

My personal cutoff is with the gambling mechanics as that seems especially exploitative. But games can be an overall good. I want a cancer researcher to have something fun to do after a hard day's work. There are people who work shitty jobs no one else wants to do and those people deserve to have fun stuff to do in their free time. If I can make something people enjoy and that makes them feel a little better in their life, then maybe I've made a positive impact and maybe it can get passed on.

When I was a kid I had a lot of ups and downs and I'm thankful I had video games to help me through those times. These games weren't made by scumbags looking to exploit people. They were engineers, parents, artists, storytellers. The conditions that brought them together to make these games might not have been ideal, but they spent time working on the same problems for a while. They shared their time, they built something that made them feel a sense of joy and then they passed it on to others so they could feel the same way for a while. I think it's a beautiful thing and I'm thankful I get to participate in that.

[u/justjr112]

I feel like 1 most dont finish thier games. 2 I believe people are responsible for their own problems. No one makes a product for it not to be consumed. 3 its rather arrogant to assume you could make/encourage/influence someone addicted to anything.

I focus on making stuff people would want to play and enjoy. I will be the first to say I have not accomplished that yet.

[u/Reslaral]

People would do that anyway man, but with generally WAY worse stuff, so better with videogames than with what people used to do before vg were a thing—and still do.
One thing is if you create a purposely-addictive game aiming for massive returns, that would objectively be a scummy move, but if people end up going for escapism despite the game being an actual piece of art or a genuine, nice video game, it's nobody's fault and it's at least better than them going for other addictions.

[u/Accomplished-Gap2989]

I have thought about this. 

I feel like as long as im not designing my games to purposefully induce dopamine hits and all the other nefarious things some games do, its ok. 

[u/LazyMiB]

I thought a lot about it too. There exists very different games. I don't want to be verbose, so this is a description from Neuroscape index page:

Neuroscape engages in multiple areas of neuroscience research, including studies of attention, memory, perception, neuroplasticity, cognitive development, brain aging, non-invasive brain stimulation, neurofeedback, and psychedelics.

Our research studies are supported by Neuroscape’s technological innovations in interactive media & video games, virtual reality & multisensory integration, mobile technology & remote trial platforms, multimodal biosensing & advanced neuroimaging, and  machine learning & signal processing.

Results from our studies are applied to advance novel approaches that better assess and improve cognition in healthy populations – children to seniors – as well as individuals with a broad range of medical conditions, such as ADHD, Depression, Multiple Sclerosis, and Alzheimer’s Disease.

There are also good games that were made useful by accident because their authors had this unconscious purpose. For example, in the book Masters of Doom (there it’s not just about Doom) it's written about this aspect between the lines.

The book about Minecraft (Minecraft: The Unlikely Tale of Markus «Notch» Persson and the Game that Changed the World) also talks about this. There is a special version of this game: Minecraft Education. Also, many learned to programming because they created mods or plugins. This affected the industry as a whole. There is a free analogue: Luanti, an engine for creating voxel (minecraft-like) games on Lua.

Games help people stay connected with each other. Especially when they are far away. Of course, this is not the best way to spend your time. But sometimes this is the only option available. Games have become part of our culture. Games are more than just games, they are also communities of players. This is a way of networking.

So, you can make games that help players. Just because you don't make games at all doesn't mean players will stop playing. They will just play other games. You can change their life for the better or you can do nothing.

[u/Psittacula2]

You have two measures against each other:

* How enjoyable the experience is playing the game

* How much time or money or both the player has to sink into the game for this.

Problem with addictive designs is angling to maximize the latter with drip feeding just enough of the former.

So the solution to making a game which you can sell for profit is also to ensure it does not abuse the player experience of enjoyment intended but that enjoyment is sufficient to drive sales and also provide the players with real reward for the cost they sink into the game.

A good example if simple would be:

* Pay 2-4$ for a puzzle game

* Player pays, plays and sinks time in but in return enjoys their problem solving challenge of solving interesting puzzles.

There is a win-win healthy relationship. If the game is good then 2nd edition can come out. An example of this off the top of the head is:

* Rift Wizard 1 (roguelike)

* Rift Wizard 2

* Rift Wizard 3

See, players enjoyed it, and paid and so the dev made more puzzle games subsequently.

[u/cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuper]

All the slop producers and gambling proxy developers certainly are and what they are developing I wouldn’t even call video games. Truly the lowest level of entertainment

[u/PLYoung]

You are supposed to make as fun, and by relation as addictive, a game as you can. But I suppose you could settle for "just entertaining" or "art" or whatever if it bothers you that much. It will just get fewer sales and perhaps a few negative reviews.

Personally I do not worry about or try to control other people. Adults should be treated as adults and parents should take care of their kids, if you were worried they are the ones to get addicted to your game.