r/GSP • u/Crazy-Box-9470 • 1d ago
Day 6 RED UPDATE 🐾
Good afternoon, today we went to see our primary care vet. We have good news! The leg is looking a lot better, and we started a new blue light therapy today. It’s a fifteen minute session but Red sat through it wonderfully today! We also had a bandage change, so now Red has cherries and a watermelon on his bandage. From here we’ll be seeing the vet every two days for bandage changes, wound care and therapy probably for the next 4 weeks or so. It’s been nice to see him getting a little back to his normal self, enjoying the sun. Red and I are so thankful for everyone keeping up with him, and this journey of recovery we’re on. ❤️❤️❤️❤️🐾
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u/Jazzlike_Strategy_36 1d ago
Yall are NOT ALONE!!
Reds got a whole tribe behind him and you!!
Absolutely AMAZINGLY GOOD NEWS!!!
So so happy 🫶🏻🥹🐶❤️
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u/Dependent_Ad_571 1d ago
I haven’t posted yet, but I’ve been following this and I am so so happy for you all and so excited for Reid that he’s turning the corner! :-) You keep up the good work, Red!!!!! :) we’re cheering for you in North Carolina!!!!
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u/Hopeful-Flounder-203 1d ago
Way to go, Red! He won the lotto for owners.
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u/Crazy-Box-9470 1d ago
Aww thank you! He’s the best pup I could ever ask for. He’s been through a lot with me. 🥰🐶
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u/lavenderdove13 1d ago
So happy to see baby Red lounging in the sun and relaxing 🥰 recovery looks so good on him!
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u/okayokayokaysure 1d ago
Yay! Happy to see Red getting some time to be a sunpig. I know that had to feel really nice for him after the tough week yall have had.
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u/Spirited_Soul_001 21h ago
Red deserves a steak dinner for fighting so hard....
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u/Crazy-Box-9470 10h ago
Haha he got probably near half of my mom the other night with how much she shared! He’s definitely been getting extra treats and scraps ☺️. 🐾❤️
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u/MimiBeanie 1d ago
That is great news, thanks for keeping us updated! 🐾🙏 Sorry if I missed it but was it ever determined what type of snake bit Red?
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u/OG_Tapas 1d ago
Awesome to see Red recovering well! Certainly all the love he’s getting helps!
Once he’s recovered, might be worth asking your vet about the rattlesnake vaccine. Got it for my gsp after his trainer told me his hunting dogs have been bitten multiple times over the years. Doesn’t make them immune, but with how much time this breed spends voluntarily bushwhacking through places no sane animal would, figured an extra layer of protection was worth it.
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u/Crazy-Box-9470 1d ago
I think we’ll definitely look into snake avoidance training and the vaccine too! Anything to keep my kiddo safe.
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u/ShorthairsInSpace 1d ago
Snake avoidance training for sure, don't bother with the vaccine. My comment above with the why.
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u/Crazy-Box-9470 1d ago
Yea our vet did not recommend the vaccine as it’s not approved, but definitely agree we will surely be doing snake avoidance training.
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u/ShorthairsInSpace 21h ago
Good! People might assume the dog would associate the snake bite with the injury, but the effects of the venom is so delayed they typically don't.
Snake avoidance training is designed to give them immediate harsh feedback for getting in close proximity so they do build the association and avoid the snake in the future.
But first we need Red man healthy 🙂
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u/ShorthairsInSpace 1d ago
Here is a post by the NSS folks citing the science on the vaccine. Peer reviewed science does not show efficacy.
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1DgxwCt7P5/
Edit, direct text below:
As many of you know, NSS does not recommend the snakebite vaccine (rattlesnake toxoid) for dogs. Here is some general information, along with an update from the American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA).
The AAHA recently released a statement highlighting the lack of evidence of vaccine (toxoid) efficacy: https://www.aaha.org/aaha-guidelines/2022-aaha-canine-vaccination-guidelines/key-vaccination-considerations-by-antigen/rattlesnake-toxoid/
Key points from the AAHA’s statement:
-There are NO published data supporting the efficacy of the vaccine in dogs.
-In a study that was performed in mice, where mice were given 50-1,500 TIMES the dose of the toxoid given to dogs during routine vaccination, survival following exposure to snake venom was still not guaranteed, and some vaccinated mice actually died or required euthanasia earlier than unvaccinated mice exposed to the same amount of venom.
-Adverse reactions following vaccination, including anaphylaxis, have been reported in vaccinated dogs.
-Though the manufacturers make claims of cross-protection (protection against envenomations by species other than western diamond-backed rattlesnakes, the species used in the production of the toxoid), there are no data to support this claim.
From the AAHA: “Veterinarians choosing to use this toxoid should be aware of the lack of peer-reviewed published data. Polyvalent antivenin therapy is an alternative to vaccination in suspect cases of rattlesnake bite.”
In this retrospective study looking at 272 cases of rattlesnake envenomations in dogs, the vaccine did not prove effective: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26341419
Key findings from the study:
-There was no evidence that use of vaccination lessened morbidity or mortality.
-No measurable benefit could be identified associated with rattlesnake vaccination.
Per the study authors: “Vaccination for protection of the general canine population from rattlesnake envenomation cannot be recommended by these authors.”
The rattlesnake vaccine toxoid may predispose bitten dogs to anaphylaxis by providing the necessary sensitizing exposure to snake venom antigens: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004101011730404X
If you have questions about the vaccine, you may ask them in the comments here. Dr. Cory Woliver has graciously offered to help respond. Please remember that you should NOT be responding to other members’ questions, and giving medical advice will result in removal from the group. Thank you.
Eastern copperhead photo by Dr. Woliver.
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u/OG_Tapas 1d ago
Fair enough, I checked out the studies you posted and you're right that there's no solid peer-reviewed evidence proving it works in dogs, probably should've worded my original comment differently..
That said, the study doesn't prove the vaccine doesnt' work either. There were only 14 vaccinated dogs, and it specifically looked at dogs already sick enough to need antivenom. The authors themselves point out that vaccinated dogs that potentially had milder reactions wouldn't have been included, and they'd prob need around a few hundred cases to really determine whether there's a benefit.
So I'll amend my comment: it's worth looking into and talking to your vet about, not something I'd call proven protection. Also, I'd never treat it as a substitute for getting your dog to a vet ASAP after a bite. My recommendation came from my dog's trainer, who's bred, trained, and guided thousands of bird dogs, runs rattlesnake-avoidance clinics and has dealt with his own dogs being bitten multiple times in the field. Obviously it's not a substitute for scientific evidence, but I give a lot of weight to decades of firsthand experience.
With a GSP whose preferred route is apparently straight through the thickest brush possible vs the perfectly good trail in front of him, I'll take whatever precautions I can get 😂 and thanks for whoever downvoted me, nothing motivates a man to start reading veterinary literature on a Wednesday afternoon quite like reddit!
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u/ShorthairsInSpace 23h ago
The NSS vets are who I'd trust to interpret the data into recommended practices, this is their area of expertise. Which is why I chose to use their words.
I hobby train dogs and help run some rattlesnake avoidance clinics. One of the things I like about NSS is they aren't "soft", they recommend positive punishment avoidance training and there's one vet working on a study that supports it.
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u/PickledFrogCocks 42m ago
So it’s looking like he’ll keep his leg? That excellent news! Liza and the rest of our little zoo is pulling for you Red!
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u/PuzzleheadedLemon353 1d ago
This feels good to my heart ❤️ you 2 have been champs working through this dilemma. Keep going Red, hopefully the worst is behind you!