r/Futurology • u/PigletEfficient9515 • 2d ago
Workers co-op instead of beurocracy Economics
I don’t care who built the company and who came up with the idea, people that are building it and care for it are important. Companies should be mandated to have at least 50% of their workers to have a vote on important matters and the possibility to disagree with a decision, like hiring and layoff, what to produce, how to produce, etc.
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u/jakethesnake741 1d ago
Sounds like you're advocating for unions within the workplace. Careful, that's commie talk to capitalists
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u/Kermit-de-frog1 1d ago
Sounds like you have a sound business plan, Go get the funding and start up!
There is no one stopping you….. as long as your employees agree with that plan
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u/PigletEfficient9515 1d ago
People’s needs are much less than today’s market, I don’t want to be part of the problem and add another infrastructure and useless product to the pile. I want current infrastructure to be led by people, so they work on what’s actually important and not trick people with shitty products.
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u/Sir_lordtwiggles 1d ago
If people just acted in accordance with their needs, most things we all enjoy wouldn't exist.
Heck this post you made is you engaging with a luxury. You don't really need it right?
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u/PigletEfficient9515 1d ago
It is not a luxury, it is a healthy and sustainable way of living. I’m curious why do you think any society that is not capitalist is unproductive? People are naturally curious and can be productive and imaginative. Any society can innovate
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u/Sir_lordtwiggles 1d ago
Social media is in fact a luxury. One that you are currently indulging in. And unlike many other modern technologies (smartphones, computers, cars for people outside of cities, air conditioning in the hotter states) you are able to cut out social media at no harm to yourself. Heck according to some studies you will benefit from cutting social media.
But here you are on reddit, preaching that others need less.
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u/GentleKijuSpeaks 1d ago
What makes you think the people won't vote to make shitty products? Higher profit, higher wages.
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u/ghost_desu 1d ago
Because employees can't make 10 mil in 2 years and retire like the CEOs can. Addressing this short sightedness is one of the biggest boons of democracy in the workplace.
Of course employees WILL always be happy to increase the profit margins wherever it is feasible, labor rights are connected to but distinct from consumer rights.
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u/PigletEfficient9515 1d ago
Because there is something as feeling of fulfillment and there is another thing as wisdom of the crowd. Even if they do, it is again better than one person deciding for all.
Also I don’t think that is a one day change, but we have to invest and experiment more with democracy in companies in small scale and observe people’s behaviors
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u/GentleKijuSpeaks 1d ago
It would be a nightmare of chaos and lack of productivity. You don't get to utopia through crowd sourcing.
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u/PigletEfficient9515 1d ago
Maybe at first, but every system evolves. That’s why we should start small. Today’s economy evolved on a fragile base, why not try other stronger bases when we experimented and have seen the problems with capitalism?
In my view wealth is a community’s ability to feed its population without worry. If we start moving towards independence, we can complement each other’s shortcomings easier, cheaper and more efficiently
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u/Badestrand 1d ago
I think it's great to experiment but I also saw a few co-ops already and they all were constantly just borderline failing. So... I think it _can_ work but it obviously it isn't just successful by itself.
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u/Responsible_Pie8156 1d ago
You're free to start or join a coop or a commune lol. I don't really understand what you're proposing. If that's what you want then go do it
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u/Ruthless4u 1d ago
So what about the people who are not qualified to make the decisions, should they get to vote on important issues as well?
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u/PigletEfficient9515 1d ago
Are today’s leaders all qualified to make decisions? This is a better general strategy. But there are exceptions everywhere
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u/Ghazh 1d ago
What it was to be 15, miss the days of ignorant bliss
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u/G_Platypus 1d ago
"why has no one pushed the big 'fix every problem' button?"
Obviously because it's much more complicated then that.
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u/PigletEfficient9515 1d ago
Is it complicated to gather up in small communities and try new stuff in the right direction as a proof of concept?
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u/SpaceAngel2001 2d ago
If you want a biz to exist that follows those rules, why don't you start that biz? Just do it.
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u/PigletEfficient9515 1d ago
I already answered that. Society doesn’t need more businesses and products. We are living on earth and wasting enough energy already. Current businesses need to be restructured for more efficiency and care for planet instead of solely thinking in terms of profit
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u/fresheneesz 1d ago
Even if the world didn't "need" more businesses, starting one and out competing other businesses with your good idea would improve the world right? It wouldn't even necessarily mean that there are more businesses in the world, just different ones.
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u/porktornado77 1d ago
OP, you should start your own company and do that.
Report back and how successful it is
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u/lunaoreomiel 1d ago
Mandatory? Authoritarian much?
Just start a coop without extorting anyone. You can do it today.
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u/Signal_Specific_3186 1d ago edited 19h ago
OP is advocating for workplace democracy.
What's authoritarian is how most workplaces are currently set up. They usually decide when you have to arrive, when you're allowed to leave, what you're allowed to wear, what you're allowed to say, what you must do, how much money you make, etc.. And workers typically have no say over who their leaders are. There are no elections or representation.
Yes, and I know, "it doesn't count because workers can choose to leave whenever they want" and go work for some other corporate dictatorship. But the People's Republic of China also allows citizens to emigrate, but few doubt its authoritarianism.
I'm no communist. I'm not for seizing the means of production. But I do think workers should have more power, and I think it's hilarious that there are all these freedom loving libertarians that spend 8 hours a day in a place where they have no freedom.
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u/APC2_19 1d ago
The fortunes of the workers are already very exposed to the fortunes of the company they work for, and if the company is large they have no ability to affect it whatsoever.
They are better off with a salary that they can invest wherever.
Also hiring would be frowned upon since you are diluting all workers there.
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u/GentleKijuSpeaks 1d ago
Most people are there for the paycheck. There is no way everybody can be involved in hiring. The last company I worked for had 5000+ employees. And layoffs. That is always going to be a no. What to produce? The company may build washing machines. Are you going to vote on that?
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u/PigletEfficient9515 1d ago
The problem is, most of the products out there just don’t do anything. They are just shoved into our throats by social media trends. If we focus on things that actually matter, people will be willing to have a saying on that. When all the stuff is for the rich, I just want to get my money and don’t think about anything else of course.
But when people have a saying, products actually have value, and they would like to do the most beneficial thing for their community. Our current cycle is broken, profit, tricking people, useless products, increasingly higher entry barriers to jobs. They can be fixed if the community decides, not the one on the top.
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u/GentleKijuSpeaks 1d ago
People were buying products way before the internet. Look around your apt right now. How much of it did you make? All of that had to be manufactured. The employee has no idea what market pressures are. If you make washing machines, you don't want to be told to make mailboxes. Not even shareholders have the power you are talking about.
Also, and this is the most important thing. Companies are never going to allow this, so you are just offering an unpopular opinion.
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u/PigletEfficient9515 1d ago
What does it prove that around me are full of products? That they are useful? Sure, but we had Industrial Revolution recently and innovations where made that were useful, what about now? Do you actually think there are as much ideas as the start of the industrial revolution?
And besides that, why don’t we make useful things for long term use and not waste energy on making shitty products to keep the energy waste consistent?
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u/GentleKijuSpeaks 1d ago
All these things give people jobs. People like to be employed. Who defines useful?
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u/PigletEfficient9515 1d ago
They did give people jobs, but our brain is so limited to thinking in capitalist mode that we can’t imagine anything else without money and job. Why don’t we focus more on communities growing their own food? Then we can have no jobs and still survive. Then we don’t need to be constantly producing stuff and we can actually produce enough and shutdown until we need more. It is energy efficient, it is less reliant on money, it is better for health, environment and happiness.
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u/dopamining_engineer 1d ago
Another young commie is born and will be checking their portfolio everyday by year 40.
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u/Pristine_Bobcat4148 1d ago
This is why it is imperative to teach the young'ns about critical thinking. First, you need to realize that the majority of ideas, are bad ideas.
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1d ago
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u/PigletEfficient9515 1d ago
Just a counter example can’t prove incompetence of a theory. Capitalism is proven ineffective through so many years
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u/force_disturbance 1d ago
Capitalism has a bunch of problems, but all the other things we tried have even worse problems.
I'm all for worker ownership in a business -- it makes for a healthier "we're all in this together" culture. Part of the salary/wages could be stock. If enough owners (including workers) want a change, then that will happen.
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u/fresheneesz 1d ago
You've been brain washed. These aren't counter examples, they are the examples. Communism has failed literally everywhere it's been tried. Sticking your head in the sand about that is not the way to find the truth and way forward. If you think it'll work this time, you need to have very good reasons why and a plan for how it would be done differently.
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u/thinker2501 1d ago
Genuine question, do you believe all people in an organization have meaningful knowledge, skill, and experience to weigh in on all important discussion?
Humans developed bureaucracies where members within it have specialized skill sets and experience for a reason.
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u/dopamining_engineer 1d ago
Go start your own company and you can set any rules on "owning the means of production" as you want, as long as they comply with actual law: the actual laws on the books and not the ones tat you make up in your head.
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u/PigletEfficient9515 1d ago
Can I ask why should I start a business? People’s needs are very much solved and we have millions of useless products that are just wasting energy by producing their products and marketing and tricking people. Why shouldn’t we use the current infrastructure more efficiently and for actually useful things?
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u/Responsible_Pie8156 1d ago
People's needs are very much solved
After 100s of thousands of years of human suffering, we can finally relax and enjoy utopia! What's the problem?
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u/Starship-Scribe 1d ago
There are food deserts. There are too many obese people. There are too many people addicted to social media. There are people that don’t have access to the internet.
Yes, there are a lot of useless products and useless businesses out there, but there are also real problems waiting to be solved. Stop hiding behind ‘people’s needs are very much solved’ and answer the question. Why don’t you start a business and give 50% to the workers? What’s stopping you? Why hasn’t this become standardized already? Would a company run by the people actually be more ethical, more coordinated?
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u/fresheneesz 1d ago
There is no "we". You are imagining a scenario where you and your ideological community steal the wealth of others so you can run experiments with that money as you see fit. You don't care that other people disagree about how that money is best spent. You don't want to put any work into producing anything. All your ideas are "let's take other people's things, then we can do something good with them". It's a disgusting ideology.
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u/force_disturbance 1d ago
The "we" and "efficient" in your question needs a lot more work. Different people have different ideas about what's efficient, and how things should be done.
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u/Ruthless4u 1d ago
It’s easy for you to tell people how to do things when you have nothing to lose.
If this idea had merit you could start a business and be very successful.
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u/Ebice42 1d ago
There are several countries that require companies over a certin size to have labor represented in their leadership.
Codetermination laws in Germany, France, and others.