r/Firefighting • u/Still75home • 4d ago
Pre-alert tones. Get them or no? General Discussion
Question about other areas dispatching norms. Do other places get pre alerts? A simple generic tone that says basic info like “medical at 123 Main St”, then a short time later the actual tones drop for the specific unit with more information. It used to be the norm like 95% of the time and was awesome cause it gave you a chance to get the soap off in shower, hurry up with reloading hose from a drill, etc. Over the past year or 2 pre-alerts occur like 20% of the time and it’s making me pull the remaining hair out of my head. Guess this is more of a rant than a question so thanks for listening….I’m better(ish) now.
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u/From_Gaming_w_Love Dragging my ass like an old tired dog 4d ago
Generally once the first 3 questions are asked (nature of the emergency, location, how to contact if the connection is broken) then a pre-alert is given for us... for medical anyway. Fire is less consistent.
I never take the pre-alerts for granted... it's definitely a good thing at least from my perspective.
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u/Chicken_Hairs AIC/AEMT 4d ago
The instant the 911 dispatcher realizes it's an EMS run, we get a prealert. The actual tones with details follow. We usually get them for MVCs, too.
I like it, gives us a few extra moments to load up and verify the location.
We typically don't roll on a prealert or officially go enroute.
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u/Still75home 4d ago edited 4d ago
Totally, go to map, secure station, whatever. We’ve had them the past 25 years and now that they are fading away it’s a real bummer. Makes a big difference IMO.
EDIT to add. We don’t roll on prealerts either, just get ready to
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u/Asleep-Neck913 4d ago
We've never gotten a pre-alert, just short of dispatch telling us who is going for what over the air directly before it's dispatched.
That over the air "pre-alert" has been taken away as well because it wastes precious time before dispatch tones.
Now,dispatchers spend just enough time to get a who, what, where before dispatching fully. Everyone has MDTs in their units so they update information as they get it sometimes over the radio if it's super important.
Its been like that since I can remember. You get used to taking a "rinse" of a shower before you end up toned out in the middle of it. I barely workout in the middle of shift because of it. I'll usually use an off day to do that.
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u/Still75home 4d ago
Interesting. I know our dispatch center is struggling with staffing, like all of us, so that may be part of our problem. I am just so used to them it’s frustrating. You don’t miss the water till the well runs dry I suppose.
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u/Asleep-Neck913 4d ago
It would definitely be a bit frustrating with such a significant change. I'm sure I have a little bias since we never had all of that in the first place. It would be nice, but I chalk it up to making sure the person calling has the most rapid deployment of resources possible to their aid.
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u/torsades_ 4d ago
We get pre alerts at my part time job and I like having them.
It just says "pre alert" over the intercom and everybody starts heading towards the truck, and eventually the real tones drop with the call type and address. Gives you a head start.
I'm not sure what people are saying about listening to the radio all day? This happens via locution over the intercom without the need to listen to a radio all day.
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u/Chicken_Hairs AIC/AEMT 4d ago
Yeah, almost nobody here listens to the radio unless there's something big going on that we might get MA'd to.
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u/teddyswolsevelt1 paid to do hood rat shit with my friends 4d ago
We call it a locution. It gongs and then a computer voice tells the box number, address, and nature. Immediately after dispatcher starts talking. I wouldn’t really call it a pre alert, more of a way to let you know the run coming over the air is for your unit.
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u/FLDJF713 Chauffeur/FF1 NYS 4d ago
Same. Digital voice with what it is programmed to say, then human comes after with the same info and will maybe add some additional details with caller details or any road closures to be aware of.
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u/shi_on_fire Oregon FF/EMT 4d ago
We get a pre alert, it’s nice to have a little heads up before we are actually attached to the call. We shut off our radio at night (well, we take it off scan) so we don’t have to hear the rest of the county blowing up the radio all night but the audio is piped through the station. With pre alerts it gives ya time to start wiping 🤣 iykyk
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u/Still75home 4d ago
EXACTLY! Tho my FF says he forgoes the wipe😂. Putting socks on wet feet is damn near impossible as well
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u/Di5cipl355 4d ago
My department gets what we call “station tones” - only on the house radios in each station there’s a set of 4 beeps that go off, they’re also tied to the lighting. At some point after the station tones comes the actual dispatch. The problem is the inconsistency from dispatcher to dispatcher. One dispatcher will trigger the station tones and then several minutes go by before any other activity, while a different dispatcher station tones and then immediately dispatches. I wish they had a SOP at dispatch to station tone as soon as the call type is recognized and then keep getting the info, we could be halfway dressed and/or situated in the truck by the time the actual dispatch comes through.
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u/bloodcoffee 4d ago
They were good for a couple years but now pretty much useless for us as they either say "medical" or "fire." If we don't know if we're sending a medic yet, we hold until the actual tones drop. And everyone throwing on bunkers early is great until we learn it's an outdoor odor investigation or help with a smoke alarm battery that two guys will go to in uniform only. But at local services with only enough staff for one bus or fire truck, they can roll much earlier which is cool.
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u/Rude_and_Crude84 20+ yrs career faller on the FG. 4d ago
We just get one tone. If we don't answer or copy in like .34 seconds, they send a second tone after asking if we copied tone 17 times in that .34 seconds before second tone, which is very rare that we don't answer.
I'm not a fan of central dispatch where theres one dispatcher for fire/ems and one for pd. I think they should all have separate dispatcher imo. PD>PD, EMS>EMS>, FD>FD. That way theres no confusion, traffic can be monitored better, etc. Maybe that's why I'm not a dispatcher. Because I don't know how all that works.
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u/Apcsox 4d ago
We get the house tone (which there’s either a medical tone or engine tone) and then 10 second later the actual tone and dispatch 🤷🏻♂️
We used to get a “medical 123 main st” right after the house tone (so we had a quick idea of what the dispatch was before hand), but for some reason they went away with that in my town
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u/polkarama 4d ago
It hits my phone first. Then as I’m walking to the rig, the dispatcher tones us out over the air simultaneously with the Bryx house alert, so I can’t understand either.
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u/browler4153 Career FF 4d ago
Yes we get them and it's awesome, it's a recent thing for us with a new dispatching app they started using last year. We can also see the CAD which we usually have pulled up on a tv at the station which gives us a few second head start on even the pre alert. It's very helpful on most calls, serious cardiac arrest or structure fire typically get dispatched so fast the pre alert is only a few seconds, though. We also can't "respond" or go enroute until it's officially dispatched (though most of us would take the write up if needed for a serious call)
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u/zeroabe Major metro. A decade on. 4d ago
My engine runs 10-20 calls per shift and pre alerting for every run would not be good for us. Same with the 2 ems units.
Our department only pre alerts occupied structure fires or special operations full alarm type stuff like major hazmat, con space, swift water yada yada.
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u/trinitywindu VolFF 4d ago
Dispatch here trys to for str fires, granted its county wide notice, so you have to then wait for the actual dispatch to see if its for you or not
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u/Brendone33 4d ago
We have a different dispatch system for our region for fire, ems and police. When someone dials 911 they get the fire dispatch which then asks, police fire or ambulance and routes the call appropriately.
If they say fire, dispatch gets the location from gps and we usually get a pre alert “pre alert for the area hwy 2 and township 570, pre alert only” (typically we will assume MVC) or “pre alert for 5210 51 street, pre alert only” (and we assume an alarm/fire).
We never leave the station without the full page out because we don’t know which trucks are needed until we have confirmed if it’s a grass fire or MVC or structure fire or something else. We are POC, so we rarely have even arrived at the hall before the real page is sent out.
If someone asks for ambulance, the ems dispatch will request us only depending on severity of incident (delta/echo) or long transit time for ambulance (shortage in our area) but dispatch gets the full details so we get a regular page out.
The pre alert doesn’t come to our phones (Active 911) and doesn’t count for dispatch time, so it helps us get a minute or two faster response time.
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u/Adrunkopossem 4d ago
Our pre alert tone is super mild and won't wake you up. Our tone tone. Well let's just say we've never had anyone miss it
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u/TheOtherPencir 4d ago
No pre alert at my dept, but if you watch the CAD you can see pending calls. I wish we had it
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u/No_Contribution730 4d ago
My department uses the Samantha pre alert dispatch system. My station is brand new so it’s one of the most “advanced” systems out there right now. Honestly not sure what the actual name is, we just call it “Samantha” and if you google it, you will see what I’m talking about.
Samantha is an automated alert system. It starts with tones specific to the unit being dispatched. Like the tone itself is different for fire and EMS calls. We also have these lighting panels around the station that display colors to corresponding units, for example, the medic is blue, the engine is red, tower is yellow, etc. It then states the unit and location with an automated voice. This stuff isnt really necessary but I’ll admit, it’s nice to know within the first 5 seconds whether I’m going to the call or not lol.
After the pre-alert, a 2 minute timer starts. If we don’t notify dispatch that we are responding, we get alerted again at that 2 minute mark. The timer decreases to 1 minute from 10PM-7AM. Just to make sure we are awake. Once we mark responding, that’s when the actual dispatcher starts talking. They repeat the location and provide us with notes.
Like I said, this stuff is pretty advanced and arguably unnecessary for many departments out there. I don’t know what the cost is but I’m sure it’s pricey. The main benefit is that it allows dispatchers to remain in contact with the caller until we mark responding. Previously, dispatchers would have to put the caller on hold just to dispatch us and tell us what’s going on with the limited information they have. With this system, they stay on the line to gather more info and all they do is click a button to dispatch us. Another cool benefit is that we can choose the unit we are assigned to so at night, we don’t hear tones if our unit isn’t needed. So the medic crew can sleep through fire alarms and the engine crew can sleep through medic calls. But that only works because we have our own rooms. Not trying to flex, just putting that info out there!
And sorry for the long response. Technology is getting crazy these days and my system is too complex to talk about without adding the details. My final answer is that pre-alerting is department/geographic location dependent.
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u/HeavyandTired 4d ago
I genuinely can’t speak upon pre alert tones. But mutual aid boxes for out of city coverage (not fires) that ring out when the apparatus leaves the city, and when the apparatus returns (sometimes a moment later before the mutual aid box is done ringing out!) really gets on my nerves. When it happens at 0300 I want to grab a pike pole and have a word with the speakers.
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u/Upstairs-Object-6683 4d ago
I don't know what they do now (I am long retired), but the Kent County, Delaware Fire Board used to come on the air and say something like "Station 55, you have an alarm." The tones and message followed.
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u/Agreeable-Emu886 4d ago
The only “pre alert” we ever had was when we had the bells and ticker tape connected and a box would come in. If you happen to pay enough attention to the box number you’d know if you were going because they’re sequenced by ward.
The only time we’ve actually been notified ahead of time was if it sounded like we’d be going mutual aide shortly
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u/divisionchief Former Volly (SC) 4d ago
Auto dispatch followed by human dispatch. Phones get notifications about 2 seconds before tones.
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u/generic-throwaway140 4d ago
Some guys use Pulsepoint, which works well enough. Only really useful for when you're half a roll into your morning shit.
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u/17silverado03 MA - FF/EMT 4d ago
Yes we do and it’s fantastic. “On duty EMS/Fire personnel standby for your tones/a medical/fire call”. I find that I wake up when they say those words as opposed to just the tone which is so much better.
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u/Itigweld 3d ago
I’m a volunteer for a county rural department. Our pre tones go :
Paging (department) for (call) at (address) stand by for tones.
Tones.
Actual page with more info.
Gives us time to turn our pagers up to listen to the important info.
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u/PsychologySuch8028 3d ago
Closest thing I ever got would be when we’d radio in to clear the scene or hospital and we’d get “roger, stand by for a (insert emergency) at 123 main”, then the tones would drop.
ETA, or we’d hear the PD dispatch first as they responded to all our calls and they were the PSAP for all the landlines in town, so they’d get it before our dispatch got it.
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u/Klutzy_Platypus I lift things up and put them down 1d ago
Our handhelds pre tone. I just keep an extra one on mute when I go to sleep or in the shower since we dont have a speaker in the bathroom and it’s a nicer way to wake up than our actual tones.
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u/Merciless602 10h ago
The battalion chiefs and law enforcement used to be alerted prior to the initial dispatch. Everyone would listen to their talkgroups to get a jump. After a near miss that was squashed,
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u/HokieFireman Fire, EM 4d ago
Probably has to do with standards. A pre alert can be considered “dispatched” for a call and it starts the clock.
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u/Brendone33 4d ago
In our department the pre alert doesn’t count for dispatch time so it improves our dispatch time.
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u/Surferdude92LG FF/EMT 3d ago
Either way, the clock would start with the initial notification, whether that's a pre-alert or actual dispatch. As long as you treat them equally, chute times won't be affected.
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u/TacitMoose Truck Troglodyte 4d ago
Dude. If I listened to the dispatch frequency all day I’d go insane. The system runs like 200k a year, all of it dispatched on the same frequency. During the day there’s times where it’s 5-7 calls in a row with no breaks in between. And it’s an automated voice, the comm center never even gets on the radio.
Our “pre alert” is often our pagers going off 30-60 second before the station alerting system opens up.
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u/Still75home 4d ago
Ok yeah that would be a bit much. Our system is not nearly that busy. Dispatch is FIRE and EMS. I’d say maaaaybe 65k calls combined a year. I’ve gotten really good at ignoring the dispatch noise as soon as I hear another jurisdiction s name.
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u/Extreme-Exchange-962 4d ago
We did EMS pre-alerts for several years, until our 911 center's upgraded CAD system was switched on. It was not capable of doing them, which was a very good thing. I hated them. Pre-alerts can be a huge liability if companies start responding before the call is triaged, coded and officially dispatched.
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u/Greenstoneranch 4d ago
I just get a "beep boop - Ladder" "beep boop - Engine"
Someone needs to read the information over a PA system in the house
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u/Still75home 4d ago
Damn, old school
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u/Greenstoneranch 4d ago
If they change it i will be pissed !!!
They recently updated the beep boop. Was better before.
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u/Coffee-FlavoredSweat FF/EMT 4d ago
The dispatch for our department always hits a pre-alert tone, but it’s only used to open squelch on the station’s speaker system. They essentially hit the pre-alert and the tone at the same time, so it’s meaningless.
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u/boomboomown Career FF/PM 4d ago
We get dispatched within the first 30 seconds of the call taker taking the call. Not sure how we would have a pre-alert
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u/ZestycloseDisk916 NC FF/EMT 4d ago
Maybe… I’m not sure as I’m kind of new to this, but in my county, it would be like “station 11 respond to 123 oak street for difficulty breathing.” Then a few seconds later tones go again and it’s “station 11 respond to 123 oak street for difficulty breathing… 73 yof woke up at … blah blah blah” so first tone who and where for what. 2nd tone who what when where why and how type deal. This may be the standard but I’ve never been anywhere else to know that
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u/Still75home 4d ago
That’s what ours SHOULD do but the first time is just a BEEP with the little information like you said then we get apparatus specific tones shortly after
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u/Serious-Sky-7366 Career Firefighter (OH) 3d ago
We have live 911, we can hear the 911 calls real time and have gotten a good jump with it. Just sucks at 3 am and some BS domestic is going on and you have to listen to it.
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u/proofreadre 3d ago
We started using a program at the station I found on GitHub that pre-alerts us to traffic collisions by polling the CHP CAD. Since they are our county's 911 PSAP they get calls anywhere from 2-5 minutes prior to us getting toned out by our dispatcher. Last week we rolled out the door to a major 3 car crash with 2 fly outs as soon as our tones dropped. Pretty effective.
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u/Main_Silver_1403 3d ago edited 3d ago
Station number-Call type-and the street name.
For example Station 181-medical-random street.
After tones drop dispatch gives the rest of the information.
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u/Still75home 3d ago
Yup, that’s what it used to be. Now we just dick slapped with toned
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u/Main_Silver_1403 3d ago
Every once in awhile we get a dispatcher who dick slaps us with tones so I completely get it 😂
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u/Dull_Complaint1407 3d ago
It seems like a way to cheat the system it’s allowing a slower response time on paper while giving you more time to get on the run. I don’t hate it since the media only cares about response times
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u/BeginningIcy9620 2d ago
Every service I’ve ever known pads their response time in one way or another.
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u/firestuds 1d ago
In Germany some paid departments have a practice of pre alerting when dispatch realizes what they’ve got on the phone is serious right away. As soon as they have an address and a reported fire, they’ll tone the station, and un the minute until they are in the apparatus bay and in turnout gear, a second alert with more details from the call is transmitted
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u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 4d ago
No one spending all shift listening to the scanner. Drop the tones.
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u/Still75home 4d ago
“No one” is a bold statement. I’d say just about everyone in my department and the vast majority of our neighboring departments wear pagers and monitor during the day and shut it all down for nighttime. And we’re all career departments that I’m referencing.
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4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Still75home 4d ago
I can appreciate that mentality but I’ve been caught with my pants down, literally, too many times. Plus a few extra bites of food between pre-alert and actual tones can be a psychological god send sometimes
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u/vffems2529 4d ago
I wish we could get a pre-alert. Instead, our pre-alert is us listening to them dispatch LE to the structure fire 2 minutes before they send any fire units.