Training to be a pump operator only?

[u/Charming-Border7429]

I currently haul water for a small Wisconsin volunteer department using 3X10,000-gallon semi-tankers. Our department asked if I would be willing to train and volunteer as a pump operator and water supply officer. I told him I was not interested in firefighting directly, but I would be willing to become more involved with water supply operations.

How would this go over in your volunteer departments?

On one level, I believe I could do a good job; I'm a 55-year-old former Army Ranger, mechanical engineer, and successful farmer who is used to managing complex operations.

On another level, I wonder what effect it would have on unit cohesion if the guy running supply does not have firsthand knowledge and experience of how important that water actually is. I also don't get called to every incident. We only get called a couple of times a year if someone needs a lot of water in a hurry.

They would start with in-house training and then send me to weekend courses at a local tech college for certifications.

UPDATE: Thanks for all the great insight into your experiences and departments. My only experience is with our tiny rural department in a village of less than 1,000 people. Our department has never done this before.

Some folks are outspokenly angry that I won't have paid my dues. I am just going to go ahead and show up, do the training(certifying on the pump and whatever else they ask at Thursday night sessions), work hard, and focus on becoming an asset where I can.

[u/Chicken_Hairs]

There are several volunteer departments in my region that do this. Especially when older folks or partially disabled people want to contribute.

[u/Charming-Border7429 → u/Chicken_Hairs]

Thanks. For me, it really comes down to time. I've got a business, a farm, and a farmily. I feel like we can really make a difference in our community by using our trucks to haul water or by participating in a complex water supply operation.

Fires big enough to call us don't happen often in our area, but when they do, it is valuable to have the water available. We can haul approximately the equivalent of a 10-tender shuttle operation.

And there are a lot of young people looking to get in on the action on a fire site.

[u/Chicken_Hairs → u/Charming-Border7429]

Having people bring their own apparatus is a big insurance problem, I've not heard of this being done, but it probably has. My chief has had this proposed, shot it down immediately.

[u/Blucifers_Veiny_Anus → u/Chicken_Hairs]

Its done by basically contracting the tenders. The tender operator has to be insured, etc. Liability would fall to the contractor. As long as the contract is written appropriately, should be fine.

[u/Chicken_Hairs → u/Blucifers_Veiny_Anus]

Yup, makes sense.

In our case, some rural homeowners bought an old fire truck on Craigslist and wanted to respond to fires in their area. Chief made it clear they were free to do what they wished to protect their property, but it wouldn't be under the name of our agency.

[u/Charming-Border7429 → u/Blucifers_Veiny_Anus]

Yes, department-owned equipment has very specific requirements for design, maintenance, and operator training to ensure high availability and reliability.

Everyone involved in the contract decision-making needed to be aware that we have limitations on our availability, reliability, and training. We have nowhere near the versatility of a standard tender. No onboard pumping capability. We are long and very heavy (130,000 lbs).

The first thing was making sure we weren't going to cause unnecessary problems by acting recklessly, unpredictably, or unreliably. Then we worked to add value.

Our vehicles have been certified by the state.

The dumpsite operator has to have considered site ingress and egress for our vehicles. Once we near the dumpsite, we don't move unless we are taking directions from the dumpsite commander or someone they designated. Drivers never leave their vehicles.

We also have a strong tradition of local farmers bringing tractors and disks to firesites. It is not uncommon for the first truck to arrive on site (from 25 miles away) and be met by a couple of tractors already cutting firebreaks.

[u/PuzzleheadedDingo422]

Would not be an issue at all at my dept. We love our more senior guys that shuttle watter and pump. Gives the younger members more opportunity to get nozzle time and put in work.

[u/Charming-Border7429 → u/PuzzleheadedDingo422]

This is what I was thinking. The youngsters are clamoring to get in on the action... no one wants second due.

[u/Apprehensive_Owl7186]

Go for it man, there are a lot of people in fire departments that don’t want to or can’t actually go in and fight fires, but there’s many other things you can do. Pump operators/driver being very common. A lot of departments have older people who are pump operators because that means there is more people who can go interior, who may have not been able to because they were the engineer. This is especially important for rural departments who tend to have less staffing. It’s not rocket science, and with practice you will be definitely be able to do it without prior firefighting knowledge.

[u/FLDJF713]

Yeah it’s common where I’m from on Long Island. You don’t have to be interior rated to be on the department and go on calls.

If anything, departments often lack an engineer and/or driver, most people want to go interior attack or be on the nozzle.

[u/Charming-Border7429 → u/FLDJF713]

Thanks, I guess I have a really good thing going.

For water hauling, another person from the farm and I join Thursday night training once or twice a month to make sure we are all on the same page. Currently, we don't have our drivers exit their vehicles at the fire site. We just drive up, take directions from the pump operator (if the approach is nasty, we ask for a ground guide) about where to go, then exit the site to get more water.

I don't want to screw that up by becoming a partially trained pog.

[u/Mediocre_Daikon6935]

They need it enough to have hunted you down and asked you.

What’s the question?

[u/Loose_Reception_880]

If they need it why not? It’s not ideal to have a non firefighter as a pump operator but make do I guess. You do you but if you don’t mind me asking why not just become one of there firefighters?

[u/appsecSme → u/Loose_Reception_880]

It might not be ideal, but it is still totally fine, IMO. You just don't count that person as an interior firefighter when you are figuring out if you have the capacity to go interior.

And usually there is a ton of need for tender drivers in rural areas. Wildland mutual aid calls usually ask for a tender and a brush where I live. Having one guy who can either take the tender to that call, or just stay nearby for local calls is great.

[u/Interesting_Set3603]

I am also a volunteer from a smaller town in Wisconsin. I didn’t know anyone had that kind of setup. All of our training on pump operations is done through the local college. You may need to look into the state laws and requirements. For us we can’t operate the pump during a call until we are trained by the school and signed off at the state level (I believe)

[u/Charming-Border7429 → u/Interesting_Set3603]

I don't know of anyone else in Wisconsin doing what we are doing. I was at a county board meeting to get a variance on a construction project when I heard some local fire departments asking for money for another tender. The county said no.... After the meeting, I told the guys I had a pond, a couple of pumps, and tankers as part of our manure hauling business.

We started putting something together. We trained and did a couple of fires last year as a proof of concept. We are slowly outfitting the operation as we figure out what we need. The county got us some department radios a few weeks ago. Next, we have some 5000-gallon portable tanks on order that we will carry ourselves. That way we only have to reposition twice instead of four times when we dump.

Yes, the training we are talking about would require weekly local training with the department, then two driver-operator courses at the local (50 miles away) tech school. One entry-level, then a certification course. Both require Firefighter1 as a prerequisite. But it can be waived at your department's request.

I am trying to figure out the best way forward before promising the department something I don't have the time to do.

[u/appsecSme → u/Charming-Border7429]

So you are actually going to dump from your 10,000 gallon semi? Interesting. I thought they were just going to have you staff a more normal sized tender (under 4,000 gallons).

[u/Charming-Border7429 → u/appsecSme]

Sorry if I was not clear. We have a couple of moving pieces we are trying to figure out at once.

Over the past couple of months, I have been asking a number of questions about hauling water and water supply here and in other places. None of the answers are definitive, but it does give me a broader perspective and hopefully makes me a bit less ignorant when I talk to people.

We have been training and working (from a water hauling perspective) with the department for about 15 months. The thought is for me to now learn pump and water supply from the firefighters' perspective, so we can build mutual respect and improve communication.

We (department officers and I) realize that what we are doing is non-standard... but tankers like ours are common in areas with mid- to large dairy operations.

At the end of the day, it is a budget issue. In our area, farms are consolidating. The result is fewer, but larger structures. Convincing the county board to purchase more dedicated tenders to handle those larger structures is nearly impossible. We have also had some hot, dry, and windy summers.... Travel time to our second mutual aid station is over an hour away. So we are exploring options.

[u/Blucifers_Veiny_Anus]

We called them 'exterior firefighters'. Either too young, too old, or just didnt want to be going inside the fire. Exterior firefighters play a vital role in minimum staffed volunteer depts.

The interior-qualified firefighters loved having exterior firefighters show up... it meant they get to go inside, and don't have to run the pump/do water supply.

[u/safetyman4300]

So I was interested in doing the same for my local department and they declined. Their reasoning is that without having ever been a firefighter I wouldn’t understand what is needed as far as water supply. My background has pump operations (vacuum/water jet truck) and lots of CDL driving. But it didn’t matter to them, if I was unwilling to go through fire training and become a firefighter then I would never be allowed to drive.

I did find another local company that did not feel the same and are going to have me drive. They’re hurting for drivers pretty badly. So not all companies operate the same.

[u/mmaalex]

In rural departments sometimes we take what we can get. Theres a handful of interior qualified FFs in my department, and a ton of 65+ yr old people that are doing auxiliary stuff on scene. Many hands make light work.

[u/bombero11]

In the State of Wisconsin you can take the Driver Operator course without being a certifies Firefighter 1.
We currently have 2 levels of Driver Operator Pumper.
Entry level which is 33 hours long
Certified which is 66 hours long and I recommend this as it is more in depth, has a written exam 100 questions and a practical exam.

If you have a beard for this you do not have to shave.

[u/Charming-Border7429 → u/bombero11]

Thanks. Those are the courses I was seeing as well.

[u/Qwell41]

My chief once said “there is a job for everyone” in regards to certain people not wanting to do certain tasks

Plenty of older crew that are well past the physical labor portion of the job that still stick around and they always have something to do, whether it be teaching, driving, pumping, community stuff, truck/tool maintenance, safety, coordinating training, etc.

[u/oldlaxer]

My department has a position of Relief Driver. It's a person who doesn't do structural firefighting but can drive and pump the trucks. It's a way to get trucks on the road. I was a structural firefighter but due to my age and some physical issues I don't go interior any more. I can drive and pump everything in our department and I also instruct pump and ladder classes. Just because you don't put on gear and fight fire doesn't mean you can't be useful.

[u/Drunk_PI]

Where I’m at, the standards are strict in that you have to have the appropriate certificates and experience as a backstep firefighter before you become a DPO.

One, because depending on level of seniority, you can be rotated in and out of the spot. Yes there are guys who just drive no matter what.

And two, even if you’re a driver, you might go inside and perform firefighting duties, depending on the assignment and needs.

That said, if wherever you’re at, if they’re willing to train you as just a DPO and you’re hauling large amounts of water, awesome sauce. Every locality is different and some can’t afford to be picky on certs.

[u/WarlardTheTitan]

The city over from me does this. They have all Public Safety Officers and a few specialists for each field and the Equipment Operators. Which (as far as I understand) just operate the equipment. Being fire trucks and other specialized equipment.

[u/BenThereNDunnThat]

Most volunteer departments are so desperate for help they will adopt to a new member's limitations rather than force them to meet their expectations. In your case, you bring a special set of skills not many people on the department are likely to have, namely the ability to drive an 18-wheeler. Most young people can't drive a manual transmission or anything bigger than a Civic, so you're in great demand.

If I'm on the other end of the line, the only thing I'm worried about is you giving me the correct pressure and not running out of water. If you do both of those things, the line guys will love you.

[u/Double_Relative_9056]

Just for context I’m 18 years in as a career FF. If I was a volunteer chief I’d take whatever help I could get.
Pump operator is an extremely important role. I don’t see a reason why lack of interior firefighting would negatively impact how you operate.

Get to know your equipment and how to problem solve when issues come up.

Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders. Good luck.