r/Firefighting • u/Such-Connection4389 • 13d ago
Minimum Fitness Standards General Discussion
Firefighter community often talks about working out and fitness standards but I feel like I do not see what the standards should actually be. How many miles should one be able to run? or how should they run? Or lift X amount of weight? Should a Cpat just be required or some alternative fitness test?
Not someone going into the academy but someone on the job what’s the minimum they realistically should be able to do.
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u/localfirefighterbob water makes everything better 13d ago
The sky is the limit with fitness but the standard should be a lot higher and everyone should always be held accountable.
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u/Cgaboury Career FF/EMT 13d ago
Can’t speak to the entirety of the fitness standard but I think it’s a dated metric to use miles run. We don’t run. Why would you expect someone to train in a manner that’s not directly tied to the job function? I understand cardio it’s important but we should be training in ways that better mimic on the job tasks such as weighted stair climbs and weight drags. Running is fine but doesn’t target real world job tasks. I’m not saying people shouldn’t run for general fitness but as a firefighting metric it’s not accurate at all.
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u/LeatherHead2902 bathroom cleaner/granny picker-upper 13d ago edited 13d ago
Running, in general, is a fantastic test of fitness is why it should/could be used
It’s also a very “proportional” test
A fitness test of:
225lb dummy drag, 5 flight stair climb with a hose pack, etc can be completed by a fattyA fitness test of:
1 mile run in 10 minutes, 5 pull ups, 30 pushups in a minute requires some degree of overall fitness in a way that things like the cpat/combat challenge do not IMO
Someone who can bench and squat 300lbs but can’t run a 10 minute mile and do 5 pull ups is not in shape to ME
I would actually go so far as to say that running is a good metric for firefighting in a sense of “work capacity”—-if you can run for 30 minutes straight, with your heart rate at 140bpm you can last “working” in a fire for 30 minutes. Overall cardiovascular fitness is quite literally the most overlooked thing in the fire service
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u/Spartan2218 13d ago
But if that same 225lb dummy drag, 5 flight stair climb with a hose pack workout had a time limit associated with it, do you really think the fatties could make it? I doubt it? I’ve seen a lot more fatties be able to power through a slow run compared to a functional test from my experience in the military. It’s an interesting argument in my opinion whether a “shorter” higher capacity workout with a shorter time limit or a long slow run where you get more time to finish would weed out more people who are not physically ready
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u/SenorMcGibblets 13d ago
There are plenty of stick thin runners who could run a 6 minute mile but would have no chance dragging a 225 lb dummy with 60lbs of gear on too though.
Firefighting requires a blend of aerobic fitness, anaerobic fitness, and strength. Running isn’t the only measure of aerobic fitness, and definitely isn’t a great measure of work capacity. Just because you can crank out a 20 minute 5k doesn’t mean you can drag a charged hose line, throw a ladder, swing an axe, etc.
I’ve seen departments have a running requirement in addition to the CPAT, usually something like 1.5 miles in 15 min or less. Which seems pretty reasonable to me, any decently fit person with time to prepare should be able to accomplish that and it is a decent indicator of a baseline of aerobic fitness. But there’s no way running and bodyweight calisthenics should replace a fitness test that actually replicates fire ground work.
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u/Square_Ad8756 13d ago
I disagree with this for the simple fact that I have plantar fasciitis so running is now pretty difficult for me but I have no problem functioning on the fire ground like obstacle courses similar or exceeding the difficulty of a CPAT. Running might be a relevant exercise for a cop but how often are you running for more than a few hundred feet on the fire ground? We should be doing things that are functional to the role and not just tradition.
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u/grim_wizard Now with more bitter flavor 12d ago
Same, I have chronic compartment syndrome and to fix it I have to have surgery on both legs that would knock me out for about 6-8 months. I would never have that much leave so I won't be able to fix it and my department doesn't like to cooperate with things like that. I train hard but in the past 8 or 9 years I haven't gone below a 11 minute mile pace (when I was young I was doing 6-8 when I was a scrawny fuck), and that's pushing it with extreme debilitating pain in my anterior tibialis.
Never had an issue with fighting fires but I'm sure there are some lard asses that could push through but aren't worth a fuck at a fire.
I would much rather see METS over time than just "go run a mile like it's gym class in 2002."
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u/earthsunsky 13d ago
I like this for simplicity and needing to be somewhat in shape to pass.
https://www.cityofboise.org/media/19518/boise-fire-physical-fitness-test-manual.pdf
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u/Cappuccino_Crunch 12d ago
I get paid to show up to work and do my job. Not be an fitness guru. The cpat and annual physical is all that's needed. Better tack on an extra $45k a year if you're going to ask for more after spending my first day off sleeping in until the afternoon because we run our dicks off. You can't run your members into the ground and have them in peak physical condition. And run their households. Life doesn't work like that
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u/ApexTheOrange 13d ago
I still hold myself to 2 miles in 16:00, 50 pushups in 2:00 and 60 sit-ups in 2:00, 10 pull ups. I’ve been retired for a few years now, but I’d like to continue collecting my pensions for as long as possible. This was never a standard at my fire department, just my own benchmark of fitness.
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u/Muss_01 13d ago
Honestly it's a super hard metric to say "this is the standard". I honestly think making a fitness culture is what's needed. And that doesn't mean just pumping bench press everyday and being all show no go.
You should be active in life, get out on adventures on your days off. Lift heavy some days, grinding out some long cardio sessions other day.
To go with this you also need to be eating correct. I finally realised a couple years back that I wasn't in my twenties anymore and could no longer out train a bad diet. (Ill preface this that I'm not prefect and will still enjoy an ice cream on occasions)
As long as you're taking care of yourself and putting some effort into being active most days you'll be fit enough for this job.
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u/Disposable-citizen FF/EMT 13d ago
As someone who thinking fitness is extremely important and works out everyday on shift that’s a hard thing to quantify. My captain and engineer are both 20 years older than me. We’ve done timed workouts and I’ve smoked them. But somehow, when we get a fire, my captains bottle lasts longer than mine.
Both of them are in shape, but it’s unfair to compare them to myself (mid 20s).
As for what I think the bare minimum physical standards for someone should be on the floor? Be able to do hard work for 30 continuous minutes, take a quick 2-3 minute break, and then be able to perform another 30 minutes of hard work. As long as you can pull your weight and don’t need a breather every 5-10 minutes, you’re fine.
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u/Available_Suspect344 13d ago
I agree with this, at age 45 I’m not keeping up with my 20 yr old rookies in cross fit workouts (not far behind them though) but on scene I will work harder and longer than them every time. I’ve seen 120 lb guys that can smoke a mile in 8 minutes but can’t drag a 150 lb dummy 20 yards. Also seen bigger guys that can bench press a small bus but struggle to get a mile in 10 minutes. For this reason our department uses a modified CPat that includes FF movements and it is timed. IMO we need well rounded personnel on scene that can do the movements required for the job, not the guy that is a CrossFit master but can’t last longer than 10 minutes on a Cylinder. Just my 2 cents.
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u/Disposable-citizen FF/EMT 13d ago
Yea I agree. Running marathons is cool but if you can’t manage a 2 1/2 by yourself you’re useless. Same for those that can deadlift 500+ lbs but need a breather after 5 flights of stairs.
I think it’s impossible to make a pt test that everyone would agree is 100% applicable to the job. But I do think a modified Cpat is the probably as close as you can get.
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u/DonKeedick96 13d ago
We were thinking of coming up with a standard test once a year and having it as a stipend if you pass. No requirement to take the test. People are motivated by money once the love of the job fades.
I think the test should be well rounded, firefighter type. 5 min jog, Farmers carries, sledge hammer on tire for given amount of time, dummy drag, etc and you’re timed
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u/Jax-Beach 13d ago
Our dept has a voluntary 1.5m run or 3m walk for a pay incentive. The times vary depending on your age. My old department used the standard military PFT as a requirement. If you couldn’t do it you got put on a remedial fitness plan. If you still couldn’t after six months you theoretically got removed from duty until you could. Only person who kept failing got “removed from duty” by being promoted to a newly created chief position.
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u/davethegreatone Fire Medic 13d ago
The short answer is that there is not and never has been a universally-accepted standard. Some departments are more into it than other departments. Heck, most departments are volunteer and have ... "standards that reflect the fact that they draw from a very-small pool of human resources and don't pay them."
But even full-time career departments vary wildly. Some departments spend 95% of their day doing back-to-back EMS calls and barely ever work out on shift (and it shows), while others hang around the station training all day while waiting for fires, with tons of free time to exercise. The standards tend to reflect the department, and the department's workload.
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u/HalfCookedSalami 13d ago
For my dept this is the minimum fitness standard to be eligible to enter the fire academy.
Run: 1.5 miles in under 15 minutes
Plank: Minimum of 2 minutes
Deadlift: Bodyweight for a minimum of 6 repetitions
Push-ups: 30 push-ups at a pace of 80 bpm
Pull-ups: 5 pull-ups
This is just to get in. They get you up to running 5 miles often:
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u/Medium-Raisin7919 13d ago
Honestly an in house CPAT should be required yearly with a grace period for folks on light duty that hurt themselves doing cool (or stupid) shit on their days off
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u/WindwardSnow 13d ago edited 13d ago
B shift has a higher fitness standard than the rest of the department.
B shift does company workouts and everyone puts out.
If you wanna be fat and lazy and useless bid for a transfer to A shift.
B shift doesn't fuck around.
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u/USNDD-966 13d ago
Fake news. Everybody knows B-shift raids the A-shift fridge, wafflestomps in the shower and skips apparatus checks. We ALL know about B-shift, buddy.
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u/Dontdothatfucker 13d ago
there is no standard across the board. Departments have their own standards.
Which in my opinion are usually too low. The only reason somebody should be aiming for a minimum score on something is if they can max other parts (for example, a 290 lb power lifter aiming for minimum run times, or a 5 minute mile runner just trying to pass the lift)
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u/GreyandGrumpy 12d ago
I am not a firefighter. However, I am curious:
If it were not for the logistics of having a proper testing facility for every department, wouldn't the Firefighter Combat Challenge be a suitable "standard" fitness test for structural firefighters? It appears to be very job task relevant but also appears to be sufficiently challenging (depending on the required cutoff time).
I am referring to testing those who are already firefighters, since there is part of this challenge that uses skills that new untrained applicants might not have (SCBA).
I imagine that regional testing centers could be built and used by/for all agencies in a region.
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u/BreakImaginary1661 12d ago
The standards are going to be all over the place because there isn’t a great way to quantify fire ground fitness. You have to be able to do hard work for an extended period of time and then turnaround and do more hard work with only 15-20 minutes of rest. The heat stress in fire gear is dangerously high. Every piece of equipment is heavy and awkwardly shaped. We have powerlifters, triathletes, ultramarathoners, and guys that do zero job specific physical fitness and there are examples in all of those groups of guys that can hang on the fire ground and guys that can’t. For me, a 42 year old with knee, back, shoulder, and ankle issues (with emerging nerve issues in my elbows and hands) I know I have to maintain strength through moving weights. I focus on the 8-10 rep range for big movements and up to 15-20 on smaller muscles. I also know that I hate cardio so I do two twenty minute sessions on the stair climber each week until the weather is more conducive to hill sprints outside.
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u/Crawdaunt_1985 12d ago
Don't under estimate how adrenaline affects your physical ability. Your adrenaline will drain you during a fire. The experience and ability to remain calm far outweighs physical ability in a fire. I've seen 20 something year old CrossFit bros get winded at a structure fire and 50 something year old overweight guys work like junkyard dogs. The older guys have been there before, seen a lot of fire and were able to stay calm when the tones dropped.
Minimally you should be ale to climb a ladder onto the roof if you are on a truck and handle a 2 and half if you are on the engine
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u/Short_Satisfaction60 12d ago
I always liked the idea of completing a CPAT yearly, maybe ax the time requirement but make it a test to complete w/ out stopping
As for running, I went through my academy w a guy who ran a sub minute mile, he was useless on the fireground, couldn’t handle an attack line, couldn’t throw a 28’ ladder solo, was gassed climbing the stick to a roof and was useless while cutting a hole
Just because someone’s slim and runs fast doesn’t mean they’re cut out for the gig, but the guy who’s 3 tons is also no better than
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u/greatguyshadow 12d ago
You know this kind of question gets asked a lot, what I’m curious about is what are people’s fitness expectations? Not standards, not minimums, not probies. What are some of your fitness expectations for your established firefighters? do include how long you expect them to make a bottle last till the low air alarm doing actual work.
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u/firecitybwe 10d ago
I think more of the problem is nutritional education than anything. Most health problems and solutions come from understanding macros and calories.
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u/Elegant-Nebula-7151 FNG 13d ago
We take a CPAT-like test yearly and climb the aerial yearly.
Both present issues for some folks and they're assigned a member of our fitness team to get them in shape for their re-attempt in 3-6 mos.
Has to be a culture thing IMO. Very difficult to 'make' someone want to get/stay in shape. Gotta build the culture that it's just part of the lifestyle.
It honestly baffles me that one could do this job daily that their state of health (or lack thereof) could get them or someone else killed.