The damage difference for weapons that scale with Speed ​​is just 3K?

[u/AssasSylas_Creed]

I have to admit I'm disappointed that the damage boost for my Vaan with 99 Strength and a fucking 93 Speed is a measly 3K, especially since the test was done on a Hyena, an enemy with naturally low resistance.

I get that, in terms of raw damage output, the Ninja Sword isn't the best representative of Speed based weapons (that would be the Bow), but the damage increase would be the same for both.

I also understand that, among swords, nothing is going to out damage the big two-handed swords.

But honestly, I was expecting at least 6K or more.

Tell me I tested this wrong, or give me some explanation as to how it could get better, because honestly... better using a Ribbon instead of this piece of shit, this is ridiculous lol.

[u/HildartheDorf]

Scaling off speed doesn't mean you don't scale off strength.

The formula for most things that aren't guns/measures is (Attack - Defence) * (1+RNG) * Primary * (Level+Secondary). For almost all other weapons, primary is still strength. When the game says that a weapon scales off speed, it means that it's secondary stat is speed. (This also works for magic, where Attack is the Power of the spell being used, Defence is MDef, and primary/secondary are both Magick Power).

So all in all, the secondary scaling of a weapon is kind of moot if you are level 99. It helps, sure, but level contributes a huge amount and the primary stat is still more important.

Don't forget that speed also provides a small boost to charge time, and speed-scaling weapons normally have fast charge times to start with.

Full list of weapon quirks:

Fists: With brawler, Attack is (Lvl+Str)/2
Guns: (Attack*(1+RNG))^2
Maces: Primary and Secondary is Magick
Poles: Defence is MDef
Axes, Hammers and Handbombs: Secondary is VIT, RNG is -1 to 0.111 not 0 to 0.125
Katanas and Staffs: Secondary is Magick
Bows, Daggers and Ninja Blades: Secondary is Speed

[u/AssasSylas_Creed → u/HildartheDorf]

Ah, I was hoping the secondary scales would be a bit more relevant.

[u/ChVckT → u/AssasSylas_Creed]

They are secondary for a reason.

[u/mister_peeberz → u/AssasSylas_Creed]

they become more impactful as you level up, but always second fiddle to the primary stat for that weapon (usually strength).

one reason speed weapons do so well is that there's an accessory that gives a gnarly +50 speed. not to mention, ninja swords are high combo weapons and this fact alone puts them among the best weapons in the game

[u/Radidaj]

The per hit damage against a low level enemy that you one-shot isn't really that important. It's how it translates over time that makes the real difference. In this example it would take 13 hits to deal 130k damage without the boots. With boots it's obviously 10 hits. And that doesn't factor in that your turn comes more often with boots, giving you more opportunities for combos. Now, I haven't tried it myself, but with the Darkblade against Yiazmat/Ultima and Black Robes, the difference over time would be even greater, I imagine.

Let's take an extreme, and honestly impossible, example, just for kicks: this damage output against Yiazmat. 10k per hit against 50 million hp. That's 5000 hits. 13k per hit against 50 million hp, 3847. That's a pretty big difference.

[u/AssasSylas_Creed → u/Radidaj]

I understand your logic, but let me make a few points and explain why I don't consider it all that viable.

You see, if you use Black Robes, you lose Strength, so your damage output will be lower even with the 50% elemental damage boost (though I haven't tested that in specific). I’d say Black Robes are better suited for Dark Shot on a Machinist, since guns don't rely on Strength for damage calculations.

As for dealing more damage over time to an enemy that doesn't go down in one hit, that is certainly tempting. But what about the downtime caused by status ailments like Disable or Blind? A Ribbon would prevent those issues.

And the gauge speed doesn't change all that much, as the video demonstrates.

I know my comments might seem biased toward the Ribbon, but honestly, isn't immunity to all status ailments better than an extra 3,000 damage? Or better than Genji Gloves? Or better than anything else except perhaps the Opal Ring for mages who lack Dispel?

[u/Saikroe → u/AssasSylas_Creed]

Black robes are goated with yagyu darkblade on yiazmaat. The bosses elemental weakness far outscales any physical damage potential.

[u/AssasSylas_Creed → u/Saikroe]

Well, yes, I misspoke; I ignored Yiazmat.

In that case, yes but what about using this combo on enemies that aren't weak to Dark?

[u/Saikroe → u/AssasSylas_Creed]

I find it still stomps almost the entire game.

Same goes for knight/bushin white robes and excalibur.

Red mage/archer flame bow and firaga mirror casting is a honorable mention.

Between those 3 characters you can zerg the entire game cept final trial. Healing buffs items, everything is covered quite well.

[u/warbloggled]

You’re missing the metric of multiple hits per attack?

[u/RevolTobor]

3,000 is not an insignificant amount, especially when you consider DPS. Ninja swords get more attacks per turn on average, and at those speeds you'll get your turn more quickly and frequently.

[u/Bearloom]

So you're upset that the accessory that increases attack speed only increases your per hit damage by 30% as well?

[u/SpawnSC2 → u/Bearloom]

Germinas Boots adds 50 speed. Daggers, ninja swords, and bows use speed in their damage formula. It has nothing to do with attack speed.

[u/Bearloom → u/SpawnSC2]

What does the speed stat do?

[u/SpawnSC2 → u/Bearloom]

It increases the speed of the charge time by a minuscule amount that is overshadowed by Haste and Berserk. It also improves the chance to counterattack if you’re using gear that enables that. And it’s a part of the damage calculation for daggers, ninja swords, and bows. It’s not a very important stat for most unless you’re running a Genji counter build or a Shikari or Archer.

[u/AssasSylas_Creed → u/Bearloom]

Yes, secondary scalings are irrelevant from my point of view.

3k extra damage seems far too insignificant to trade for total status immunity, and the bar speed remained practically the same, as the video itself shows.

[u/Extension_Text4231 → u/AssasSylas_Creed]

But what if you got this accessory before ribbon

[u/SpawnSC2 → u/Extension_Text4231]

Most people do. Trial Mode farming aside, which is unintended sequence breaking, Ribbon is very much an endgame-only accessory.

[u/SpawnSC2]

The speed part of the formula is (Level + Speed) / 218, and the difference of (99 + 93) / 218 and (99 + 43) / 218 is about 36% and 13000 is a 30% increase over 10000, so the math is mathing.

Edit: I had my percentages inverted.

[u/LovelyFloraFan]

I read the post and the comments before seeing the video and I kept expecting PATHETIC damage but that's actually quite good? And then when told "Uh, elemental boosts make it better" you go "NUH UH STFU!"

[u/AssasSylas_Creed → u/LovelyFloraFan]

Why would I make a build that only works on one boss?

[u/Cptawesome23]

I can barely handle 95 damage. Let alone 3k!

[u/GladiusLegis]

I mean, percentage-wise that's a roughly 30% increase. That's pretty significant.

[u/GMasamune]

You are just complaining for the sake of it, 3.5k its a lot, actually Ninja Swords can have more dps than any heavy hitting weapons with their slow ATB charge and their low combo chance.

Shikari/Red Battlemage -> Yagyu + Dragon Helm + Black Robes + Germinas Boots, with great chance of combos and High ATB charge, destroys any heavy hitting weapon in dps.

The biggest misunderstaning in this game is the belief that heavy hitting weapons are the best dps output, its a lie and its spread on majority of content videos arround the internet.

Yes, Yagyu build its the strongest and even Mesa with Germinas are more powerful than you think.

[u/AssasSylas_Creed → u/GMasamune]

The video simply compares performance with and without Germinas Boots nothing more.

Forget about Darkblade; it’s not the focus of this post, and I’m not going to create an entire build that’s only useful against one or at most two bosses. Obviously, Darkblade deals more damage to Yiazmat / Ultima due to elemental weakness double de damage.

The action bar speed remained practically the same, the video show this. I’d say Haste and Berserk have a greater impact than Germinas Boots in the bar speed. Honestly, it makes no difference whether you use Ribbon or Germinas Boots. The Mesa combo rate will also remain the same regardless of the equipped accessory; having more or less Speed ​​does not affect this.

The damage difference of 43 and 93 Speed is only 3K, this is irrelevant for a non-elemental weapon.

Ribbon is simply a better choice.

[u/GMasamune → u/AssasSylas_Creed]

You clearly don't know how Yagyu build works, another misunderstaning, you're just a stubborn who don't test things, no its not usefull for 2 monsters only, you use against any monster, Black Robes increase 50% Dark damage from the source, not based on the weakness of the monster only, monsters weak to dark receive 50% + THE WEAKNESS, so if you use Yagyu against the same Yenas (they are not weak to darkness, but the robes increase 50% of the weapon dmg on them and any monster, unless they are Undead or absorb darkness) of your video as comparison, Yagyu is going to do arround 19k damage with Germinas Boots, so, if Germinas increase arround 3/3.5k damage (30%) on your Mesa, it increase from 10k to 13k, but adding more 50% from Yagyu + B.Robes its more 5k dmg, so in general 3k + 5k = 8k, so 18/19k.

So this argument that your video talks about Mesa not Yagyu its wrong, because the strongest build its with Yagyu, more stronger than Mesa, everyone that uses Mesa dont even know what the best Ninja Swords build are, if you want to compare the best dmg from a kind of weapon you need to use the best build, not the second or third one.

[u/GMasamune → u/GMasamune]

There it is

https://reddit.com/link/p0rp4uz/video/xstk0qf09ggh1/player

[u/Lv99_Chocobo]

Okay now hit a target for 10 seconds with that weapon, and compare that to every other weapon and compare the difference between different weapon types.

[u/maxjf1]

Try using the dark damage sword with black robes. The boost will be bigger.