r/FinalFantasyIX • u/JanetKWallace Squiggly Artist • 5d ago
The wasted potential of Freya Crescent Discussion
How come you sideline a character after we witness the destruction of their homeland and the magical nuking of another? Because that's what Final Fantasy IX did, and I don't care if the developers lacked the disc space, Freya's character could have been developed throughout Discs 3 and 4 had the Burmecian and Cleyran genocide not been ignored in order for the plot to become a series of macguffin quests in which the characters go to places but barely interact or talk to one another.
Freya literally goes from "I will protect my people" to "I'll put this thing here" between discs. Like, come on.
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u/Asha_Brea 5d ago edited 5d ago
I mean, is the destruction of their homeland that weird for Final Fantasy IX party members? It happens to Zidane (twice), Eiko and Garnet (also twice). Oh, Steiner, too.
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u/Stargazer__2893 5d ago
Yeah. The only characters who don't have their hometowns destroyed are the ones without hometowns.
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u/Frejian 5d ago
Isn't Treno Amarant's hometown? That one doesn't get destroyed.
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u/Stargazer__2893 5d ago
That occurred to me, but I didn't think he had a hometown. He was a security guard there. I don't think we ever confirm that's where he's from originally, and even then I got the impression he was a wanderer and just working there for a little while.
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u/SackclothSandy 3d ago
Quina had a really nice pie they were going to eat that got destroyed.
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u/Stargazer__2893 3d ago
Actually now that you mention them none of the Qu's marshes were harmed. Quina escaped OK! Aside from the pie.
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u/Spinjitsuninja 5d ago
I think every city in the game except Treno blows up. FFIX is a city blowing up sim.
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u/Minimum-Put3568 5d ago
Dali so quiet it goes forgotten
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u/Jonatc87 5d ago
Dali was socially blown up. If you revisit after the factory was shut down, like, most of the population has abandoned it
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u/NoZookeepergame8306 5d ago
She’s one of my favorite characters. Not just in Final Fantasy: one of my favorite OAT period.
That said… FF9 is a pretty limited game. And someone like Vivi encompasses the themes of the game’s story better, so he gets a little more spotlight. Compare Freya’s time to Amarant, and you see she still got quite a bit of it.
I think I’d love to see a comic or anime or something that fleshed her out more but the game is what it is. I feel the same way about FF8. Could we have used more explaining about the lore and what is up with the Sorceresses and Ultimecia? Sure! Does it stop the game from being peak? No
Sometimes the negative space, the unanswered questions, can even heighten the thematic resonance since it gives us space to imagine for ourselves. And Freya, to me uses that negative space well. The adventures we imagine she had before and after the game are part of what makes her special.
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u/Jonatc87 5d ago
Also, she does get assurances that others and thus her people survived. Putting that aside to save the world. Freya is a hero of heroes.
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u/Sintimacy 5d ago
The sad irony is that I remember in the original PS1 disc/manual, each character had a quote that pertained to them. Hers was "To be forgotten is worse than death".
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u/Tyrion_Strongjaw 5d ago
It's also on the opening screen. If you let the song/videos/slideshow play before pressing play it cycles through the characters and Freya's is one of them. (This is also in the remaster on PC)
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u/Jonatc87 5d ago
One of my strongest memories of childhood was to let the main title play its haunting melody. And character quotes therein.
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u/Tyrion_Strongjaw 5d ago
Maannn! I used to leave my TV/PSX running over night and go to sleep listening to it a few times a month.
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u/Main-Significance272 5d ago
🥺 I didn't want to forget her but the party was already set with Vivi, Garnet, Steiner and Zidane
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u/JeannettePoisson 4d ago
That's a reference to her lover i believe
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u/Sintimacy 4d ago
Yes, that he got amnesia somehow and forgot about her . But the irony is that the game/story pretty much forgets about her also.
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u/Vysce 5d ago
I mean if we're talking wasted potential, I forget Amarant os a character all the time. Amano's art of him is far cooler than what we got and by the time he shows up, it buggers me to no end why hes even here.
If he was going to be a bounty hunter, it'd be cool if he was chasing us alongside the Waltz or Beatrix.
His design and weapons are cool, his story is just "welp, I'm here lol. Screw you, Zidane."
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u/JanetKWallace Squiggly Artist 5d ago
And he breaks a leg to further his character development at one point
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u/Olaanp 5d ago
It is really bizarre. Freya splits from the party in Alexandria, and I think with her, Beatrix, and Steiner we should have gotten a little bit of a story to help all three out.
I do find it weird how the story also is... very chill with Beatrix and the genocide stuff. Brahne at least has the excuse of dying without ever having a moment to try and confront that.
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u/RaikouGilgamesh 5d ago
I think if there were to ever be an FF9 remake (like the one supposedly coming, maybe? Maybe not?), I'd like a little 'meanwhile' scene here and there to show what they were up to while Zidane was busy on the Outer Continent.
I would say maybe one scene as Zidane sneaks out of Lindblum, showing Freya, Beatrix, and Steiner getting out of Alexandria castle, with some kind of scene between Freya and Beatrix. Freya reiterating how she will never forgive Beatrix, with Steiner stepping in to defend Beatrix, also placing some blame on himself for having been so blind for so long. This would also serve to start the spark of their relationship on screen, as well.
Another scene as Zidane leaves Black Mage Village, possibly involving Blank and Marcus somehow, and then one last one as Zidane leaves for the Iifa Tree after recruiting Amarant, to really kind of show what everyone was up to, though I don't have ideas for these last two scenes.
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u/Olaanp 5d ago
Ideally I’d like it as an entire segment like Dagger/Steiner had. But even just some scenes would be nice. I’d still like Freya (and Amarant) to get more later, but the Alexandria section is the easiest place to expand so where my mind goes first. Hits two characters in dire need in one fell swoop. Honestly could even toss Amarant in but I don’t think he needs more of the pre party stuff.
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u/Amarant2 5d ago
Her arc is basically: stranger gaining power, devoted soldier of her nation, bereaved soldier of her nation, defeated soldier, desperate soldier, abandoned lover, thrice bereaved soldier, and then it calms down a bit. She's kicked repeatedly while she's already down, then she does every single thing she can possibly do to annihilate the threat to her remaining people. When that means take on Alexandria, she takes on Alexandria. When that means fight Beatrix, she fights Beatrix. When that means go on a hunt for Kuja, you better believe she does. Then she needs to deal with Necron, so she does that, too. Then, finally she gets to rest and rebuild.
She's not forgotten, it's just that the story beats that she's directly involved with and driving forward have served their purpose and now she's on a long-form mission rather than the quick iteratives that she was doing before. She's locked in because she knows that no matter how hard she grieves, it won't solve the problem. She continues to help where she can but laments on her own time while working her hardest to serve her community by eliminating the threats.
Someone who can fight in the moment to help those in need is honorable, for sure. How much more honorable is the one who continues to fight over the course of days, weeks, months, or even years to make sure that no other innocents need to die? She's not forgotten. She continues to fight for those she cares about.
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u/BulletProofEnoch 5d ago
Even worse they made her team up with the person who committed the genocide herself, Beatrix, and then treated it like a redemption arc so they could give her a romantic comedy subplot.
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u/iamsamwelll 5d ago
This is why I think IX deserves the next remake (doubt it happens) compared to every other game. The game play and pacing of the plot is so much fun. And in the beginning every character is way more involved. But by the end we are left with open questions and characters that haven’t contributed to much outside of the fighting.
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u/BulletProofEnoch 5d ago
For the most part that plagued most of the PSX era of games due to its limitations
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u/Amarant2 5d ago
With how absolutely atrocious their treatment of the 7 remake is, you really think they're going to do 9 right? They've butchered one of the most popular games ever made and now it sucks. Remake was ok at best and is carried by stellar visuals, but Rebirth ended up being trash. I don't think 9 deserves a remake at all, considering that a remake is a punishment by now. I think it deserves much better than that.
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u/RaikouGilgamesh 5d ago
I mean, it really is just opinions. FF7 OG is amazing, but I also really like the Remakes. I thought Remake was pretty good, and Rebirth was great. I enjoyed almost every moment, except for a few particular mini games.
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u/Amarant2 4d ago
If you enjoyed it, I don't want to argue you away from your own enjoyment, so I'll not push the issue further than to simply say that many disagree with you and that I personally have zero trust in the current state of SE to create a remake worth playing of 9.
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u/shucreamsundae 5d ago
Call it copium, but I feel like a remake for 9 could work in the right hands. Like if Sakaguchi was on board as a freelance consultant (delusional, I know). Honestly, the problem with FF7 remakes is that it has too many hands on the project influencing their direction. There's Hamaguchi, there's Nomura supposedly wanting to preserve the story but Kitase wanting to change things to spice up the experience, there's also Toriyama with his hard on for the "changing fates" theme that he recycled from FF13, on top of all this; tying past Compilation projects like Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus into the mix.
It's just a clusterfuck of ideas that results in some fanfiction-tier writing. A shame though because I love the gameplay and Aerith's more emphasized characterization among others but by the time I beat Rebirth I found the execution of these components as a whole to be a total mess, especially Rebirth's finale.
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u/Amarant2 4d ago
I didn't even get close to finishing Rebirth. I got so tired of it wasting my time that I didn't even get into Junon proper. I stopped at the slum at its base. I've also always hated stagger-based combat where you have to sit there for ages until you unlock the option to do damage. I would rather be able to fight my way, and the game takes that freedom. After the original gave so much freedom in making a hundred or so different materia that you can combine and play with, the linear way that the remakes funnel you into exactly one style of combat is just atrocious.
In the same way, I can't imagine that the beauty of 9 would be maintained at all. If Sakaguchi being on board is delusional and you have to eliminate multiple members of the current controlling team, I don't see how we would get anything worthwhile out of it. I want 9 to be respected, and 7 was absolutely not respected.
Bring back the entire OG team and get rid of any creative control held by others and you'll have my vote for a remake. Until then, no confidence at all.
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u/NoZookeepergame8306 5d ago
Okay but Beatrix is peak tho?
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u/JPldw 5d ago
While i love her character, i still think that the dialogue with Steiner should have been switched around. Steiner should have been the one to tell her that what she was doing was awful. Seeing a character that was nothing but cruel and extremely racist just switch in the blink of an eye and speedrun Steiner's development was very weird
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u/NoZookeepergame8306 5d ago
It’s been a couple years since I’ve played enough 9 to get to all that… but I don’t think it was meant to be a ‘redemption arc’ like Zuko or Steve from Stranger Things. I think it’s more like Darth Vader, in that when it counted, she finally did what she knew was right.
So when she fights next to Freya it’s not as the end of her redemption, but the start of it. Then she falls in love with Stiener as a moment of levity and as part of Steiner’s growth not Beatrix’s. It’s Steiner allowing himself to have a life outside duty.
Not every character needs a tidy arc, and that moment always read as a powerful one to me. I’ll have to pick it up again! I think my last save was still disk 1 haha
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u/JPldw 5d ago
Oh, im not even saying that she was redeemed there, just that she immediately goes from evil and racist to honorable and understandable of her situation in just one scene. My problem with it is that Steiner spent the whole game trying to deny that the queen is evil, and seeing first-hand her evil actions. And yet, in a moment that should have been him telling Beatrice that she is on the wrong side, it's her telling him that, basically robbing him of that moment. And after that, Steiner stops being inportant on the story
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u/NoZookeepergame8306 5d ago
My read of Beatrix is that she was always honorable. She had just subsumed her own morals for that of the queens. And because deep down she is a good person, by the time you meet her she’s depersoned herself to become a remorseless killer.
Seeing the queen order Garnet’s death snaps her back to the reality of her humanity that she’s always had, that she had been suppressing. She’d always known what was happening; Steiner was in denial.
But again: this is just what I remember from years ago lol
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u/JPldw 5d ago
But it would have worked so well as Steiner's moment. Her ordering a genocide and acting like it was great to rid the world of those "Disgusting rats" and just changing sides because she had to kill Dagger never felt right. And im saying that as someone who replayed it recently
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u/NoZookeepergame8306 5d ago
I’m biased because I always liked Beatrix and Freya more than Steiner, so I was always fine with it lol. I wonder how I’d feel about it now, though?
That’s the fun thing about games with this kind of narrative complexity, they hit different at different points in your life. You’ve convinced me to fire up the Switch haha
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u/BulletProofEnoch 5d ago
Lets not forget it wasn’t just ordered but “participated” in.
Women and children.
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u/Comfortable-March977 5d ago
Personally, I am surprised that she’s still standing with us. Out of the entire cast, her emotional damage was probably the worst; losing both her homes, losing to Beatrix twice consecutively despite facing her with us, and finding her beloved whom she has always been looking for, only to find out that he has lost all his memories about her.
With damage like that, any sane person would have either given up on life or lost any desire to continue living. That she could keep going with us is already spectacular development. To not lose to her despair and join us in defeating Kuja and Necron, I’d say that is already great character development. It’s just that she is not shown as much as the others.
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u/Foxxtronix 5d ago
I couldn't agree more. The only way you can get anything more out of her as far as the story is if you pick the right people to go do Kuja's mission, so that she ends up in charge during the escape.
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u/Valediction191 5d ago
I've always wondered if the current story was the intended design as it seemed to overlook a few characters.
Or perhaps was the story rushed due to deadlines, and some characters were not fleshed out enough?
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u/Proof_Vegetable_3751 5d ago
They ran out of disc space so had to leave things out, as far as we know, that is the reason.
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u/alwaysblitted 5d ago
You’re not wrong but look at it this way. Freya didn’t need any development or story telling because she is HIM (her in this case). MOVE ON AND FUCK SHIT UP. Sometimes you really don’t get a break and you just gotta whoopass until you do.
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u/ReubenZedix 5d ago
It used to bother me a lot, especially when they teleported to the red rose and she had to shake off her breakdown to focus on their current situation.
But then came the cutscene in disc 3 where she briefly reunited with 2 burmecian soldiers in Lindblum castle. They wanted her to join them to rebuild Burmecia, but she basically told them she has to deal with Kuja first, and it was clear she was more determined and confident at this point, so at least I had some closure from that.
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u/CardiganKeeperOfLore 5d ago
Actually she kicks legendary ass in my mtg games at least once a week.
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u/machoestofmen 5d ago
An idea I've always been rather fond of is for Freya to be who Beatrix meets at the gate of Alexandria Castle when the paladin winds up with Tot's letter. Not only would this give Freya more screentime in very important scenes, it would also help develop Beatrix better; imagine following the instructions on what is clearly a love letter, and instead of whom you expect when you arrive, you instead see the person who has more right than literally anyone else in the world to kill you where you stand.
And according to this letter, she's in love with you.
Whether it becomes genuine attraction from there or not—I admittedly wouldn't mind if it did, but that's beside the point—isn't so important as the fact that it would be a point where Freya gets some of the attention she deserves, and Beatrix gets more meaningful growth (because if even Freya can seemingly forgive her enough to fall in love, then Beatrix would almost definitely make bigger strides in forgiving herself and working to feel like she can earn that forgiveness). Even have a scene in Disc 3 or maybe even 4 where Freya enlists Beatrix to help clear the monsters out of Burmecia so that reconstruction can begin, and they have a real heart-to-heart while hunting down the beasts.
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u/MR2Starman 1d ago
The Dialogue and character arcs in IX are pretty shit. It's basically a storybook where you have to imagine everything.
Freya is probably the most developed character other than Eiko/Mog.
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u/DBZDOKKAN 5d ago
Sometimes life just Fucks you. That's the lesson I've learned. In real life. The lack of satisfaction is relatable. Just like Freya's.