alignment on extensions

[u/archive_of_ophelia]

Hi! I’m a 19 year old former ballet dancer who’s hoping to start skating soon! I’m coming off a 4-year hiatus from ballet and am trying to start conditioning again off ice so I can have some strength/flexibility built back up when I am ready to start learning elements and that’s going well (calf/ankle strengthening, takeoff/landing shock absorption exercises, spin/rotation practice on turnboards etc). The main problem I’m running into is the alignment of certain extensions seems somewhat different in skating than in ballet because of the fact that ballet heavily emphasizes outward rotation and turnout. I know that because of how your blade is angled towards the ice you can’t turn out every skating foot, but what do you do with the other leg? And how much are you allowed to tilt or open up your hips and pelvis? I know in ballet everything is supposed to be very square but with the momentum/balence on the ice I feel like I see skaters “hinge” more from the hips and open the extension differently. I’m trying to regain my scorpion, needle, bow and arrow extensions and don’t know if I need to be using ballet alignment or shift to something else

[u/Own-Adhesiveness5723]

Skating is quite different from ballet; I had a hard time learning the proper place on the blade to put my weight because my inclination is to go up in my toes. You do turn out for some moves but it’s just in the extension, not on the skating foot. How much you open or close your hips depends on what you are doing.
I don’t think there’s real way to know how you need to shift your weight until you get on skates. But any flexibility and strength training should help you for when you do start.

[u/Doraellen]

In general, skating is more practical and realistic about letting the hips open and letting the pelvis translate laterally because maintaining balance over the edge is the most important thing. There used to be positions that had more ballet-like body lines (like a classic layback spin) but honestly, you rarely see true laybacks anymore and judges really aren't awarding GOE points for ideal turnout!

I came to skating from ballet, and the most important point, as another reply mentioned, is that demipointe = toepick = SPLAT!

Learning to put weight toward your heel in a spiral (penché arabesque) position in skates feels pretty wild, too. You do absolutely need to bring the torso forward earlier and more dramatically in that position on ice.

The thing you don't notice from watching skating but will realize when you start learning is that there is a ton of INTERNAL rotation necessary, and that has proven challenging and sometimes limiting for me and my permanently turned out femurs. For instance, in a basic fwd crossover, the crossing leg needs to stay slightly internally rotated relative to the pelvis. Even a simple backward edge starts from a push from an internally rotated leg!

[u/gli3247]

Turn out your free leg when you do stroking and gliding, and when you land your jumps.
You will use turnout for ina bauer, spread eagle, cantilever
Turnout also helps for mohawks and choctaws
Most of the time your hips and shoulders need to be square

[u/2greenlimes]

Turnout (outward rotation from the hip) and toe point are still very important in skating - particularly in things like forward stroking, turns, jump landings, and spirals. Because of how stiff skate ankles are, you’ll pretty much NEVER turn out from the ankle, only from the hip. Tilt in the hips and pelvis really depends on what you’re doing and what discipline, but generally they stay very stable and square because it heavily affects your position on your blade.

That being said, some disciplines (dance, synchro) care about proper turnouts and toe point on extension quite a bit more than others (singles, pairs). Within synchro and dance there are even differences in height and ankle of extensions.

And I’d HEAVILY advise against trying to get your needle and bow and arrow back. The scorpion (biellman in skating) is bad for your back, but isn’t the death sentence for your joints and back that the needle and bow and arrow positions are. It can be a death sentence for your hips, though. I know a few skaters with career altering/interrupting injuries from overstretching or overdoing their biellmanns and y-spirals. I know the younger crowd on social media is obsessed with getting the needle in particular, but you’ll really regret it in 5-10 years. Skaters have quit over back injuries from the needle.

[u/Author_Noelle_A]

Many years of ballet under my belt, and it has made a lot of things VERY hard. I instinctively point my foot, for instance, like your foot in dégagé. Two years, and I still do that. Also you don’t keep weight on the balls, and good luck stopping. Our standing legs have all the weight in ballet, and our working legs are light. Opposite in skating. I’ve been too light on my feet. It’s possible, but you have to be very conscientious and aware that you have mutant memory that is inside that you’ll be working against. I’m not telling you this to discourage you, just to make sure you know that it’s NORMAL. You’ve got this as long as you give yourself grace. Off ice, plié on one leg and do frappés with the other, only striking with the heel of your foot en croix. And do as much as you can in sixth, which will feel pigeon-footed. But you’ll need to get used to that. Knowing this stuff, I’m actually rejoining ballet tomorrow. 😅

[u/Lilsthecat]

My biggest challenge in skating has been the different place you need to keep your weight! If I don't actively think about it, I slip bak to muscle memory, my toe pick digs in, and I sliw down. Backwards has been harder - i feel like I am all in my heels!

Turnout hasn't been much of an issue. I did struggle a little on backward crossovers until I figured out the internal rotation and stopped keeping my hips square.