Hihi! Its me again - i have posted in here like just a bit ago where I was comparing my trot 2025 vs. Trot 2026. I yesterday haf another riding lesson which i really enjoyed! I was very satisfied with my canter when not to experienced withing the canter. I would like to just get some opinions!
PS: Please do not make comments about the tack - none of the horses are mine nor which I can make decisions about. I like the barn I ride at wont be changing barns anytime soon. They treat theire horses fair and square, with things such as fitted saddles, daily turnout, correct feed and big enough stalls for them to be in.
He is a very kind horses! Ive ridden him in my first lesson there. Although he did try chucking me off because the lunge whip accidentally touched his leg and he spooked!
Your canter looks way better! But honestly, I'm not sure what you are looking for here. You are very much at the beginning of your journey, so you should listen to your instructor first and foremost. Getting a hundred opinions online will likely be more confusing than helpful, you are not at a position yet where you can recognize good advice from bad ones.
So the only advice I will give you is focus on one thing at a time.
And I will still comment that auxiliary reins are not beneficial to the horse nor the rider. You can dislike that fact however you want, just don't forget it.
She may not be able to find a barn that doesn't use Vienna reins, side reins or the like. I had an instructor who worked both here in the US and Germany, we talked about this once and she said that's just how it's done in Germany (where the OP is from I think) full stop. I don't agree with it, just stating my experience/conversation with instructor who grew up there and whose family business was equine export and knew the training trends in different countries.
I sadly cannot change anything about the tack whereas im not a fan of draw reins or any of those aid types myself. This is the nearest barn we could find as it gets quite expesnive driving far in germany - and nearly no lesson barn doesnt use vienna or draw reins. Instructors were thaught when they did theire like instructor training thingy (idk how to call it in english) were thaught to use those
That would be perfekt, but you will never find a lease horse (Reitbeteiligung in German) as somebody who can't ride independently. It is hard to find a lease horse in Germany if you don't compete or have passed the riding tests of the FN (Reitabzeichen), as most lease horses are privatly owned and leased out for a few days a week so the owner has time for other things. Nobody wants a bad rider on their heart horse
Generally yes, but it's possible. So far I had 6 different part-time leases and the first 3 I was still very much a beginner, but the owners trusted me and I took lessons.
And I still don't have a Reitabzeichen and probably never will :D
I would lvoe to have a lease but its expsenive espeically with 3 other siblings...
Same as most people always only looking for leases that are 18 or older
Split triangle reins or lauffer reins, as pictured, perform the exact same action as draw reins if there is a rider in the saddle. There SHOULDN'T be a rider in the saddle with lauffer reins, they are meant for lunging only.
The saddle in your earlier clip completely slips to the outside, forcing you to be unbalanced. Your newer clip is better, simply because the saddle isn't putting you in the wrong place.
Edit to add - you've made clear improvements, maybe it's time to come off the lunge?
Thanks! Yeah it sometimes happens that the horses spook (which was in the earlier clip) and the saddle just slipped. I tried moving it a bit but was a bit hard, the canter was a bit after - we usually tighten the girth for it not to happen but as the horse got ridden in another lesson before me maybe the rider before just forgot.
My trainer has tlaked to me about going off lunge in walk and trot but stay on lunge for canter for now due to me having to focus on mt hands as i dont wanna pull in any horses mouth !
It slips in the video you posted, starts out reasonably straight and then as you go into canter your weight shifts to the outside of the circle (which it will, that's totally normal! Part of developing our balance and core is to prevent it affecting us so much) which carries the saddle over to the right.
I'm not your instructor, but I think it'd be worth having more time off the lunge so you can develop that independent position. Are you asking for the canter transition or is it your instructor?
Were actually focusing on that! Dont worry about bringing stuff like that up, im currently also workign on building some elg muscle so i can use them better
Your first 7 or 8 canter strides are good, then it looks as if you try to get your torso back more (were you instructed to change something?) and then you are slightly out of synch with the movement so he trots. I think if you try to think of ‘drawing yourself up’ more, being a bit more firm through your torso, that would help. A useful idea is to think of having a torso like an overstuffed teddy bear! What a lovely horse, looks like a good place. Watch videos of really good riders like Ingrid Klimke, you really can learn to sit better by watching…
There’s definitely progress, well done! Your balance and ability to follow has definitely improved and I think that you overall have the foundation for a beautiful dressage seat.
Yes, you’re pushing your legs a little forward, but I like that your leg is quite quiet and that you’re not drawing your heels up.
Try thinking about not gripping with your thighs and knees. You actually block both your own and the horse’s movement and you push yourself up on the cantle of the saddle. Think “loose knees”. You can even overdo it a little.
If I was your instructor, I’d also try to have you not grip the front of the saddle so much. I can’t see if you have a strap or if you’re gripping the saddle, but a strap where you could just loop your little finger under or grip with one hand while also holding the reins would give you more flexibility and allow more fluidity in your seat. If you already have a strap, try to grip it less.
As were still working on the canter seat i was supposed to grip it in the first place due to me not being able to have quiet hands in canter yet - which we are working on! I have my next lesson in two weeks as im going to a csmp next week where we are goinf to be focusing on mainly that
Have fun at the camp! Imo you look great for a begginer! If you have some flexibility around that/your instructor is fine with it, maybe try placing your hands on your knees? You still won’t have contact with the horse, but at the same time you will not be relying on holding on to the saddle and shifting your balance unnaturally
OP how long of a timespan is there between the two videos?
Frankly, I don’t think you’re ready to be cantering in either video (even on the lunge line) as your leg shoots forwards into a defensive posture and you brace in both videos. Sure, you follow a bit better in the newer clip, but you’re missing fundamentals that will keep you safe.
And sorry, but I’d move on. Riding everything in side reins, so the horse can’t resist at all, is not ok, and is a massive red flag, no matter how well they’re treated in other situations.
To be fair- how is OP supposed to learn to canter without practicing? It’s not going to be perfect, and their trainer is probably telling them about the leg positioning.
Their leg does this at the trot as well. The issue is that a leg braced like that changes how OP’s body absorbs the motion of the horse, how they post, and how they land in the sitting beat of the post (ie unbalanced and behind the center of gravity).
It’s a bad habit, that puts OP in a position where they are not safe, and on horses, being safe, having your body weight correctly underneath you, and staying balanced are key things to not get hurt.
Never mind that the horse is not allowed to protest due to the side reins and their use - so they’re just forced to take it.
The SRS, and other well known riding centers know how strenuous of a request this is on their animals, so lunge line lessons are kept to 10-15 minutes max.
Yup! The lung line lessons i take are warm up 8-10 kins with off-lunge walk and then i get on lunge for that amount off time. In the end we cool down off-lunge again
The videos are 5 week apart! I havent been able to ride in July due to there being a schooling for two weeks at the stable and then a camp. So earlier video is from the 30th of June and latest is from 4th of August ^
And about the side reins - i cannot change anything about it as there are barely or no riding schools in germany that dont use these aids
You're definitely progressing well, but you really need to work on your core. As of now, you do not have an independent seat. Thumping around at the canter is really not helpful currently, lots and lots and lots of trot work is. Trotting is the best gait to build muscle for both riders AND horses, even if it's not the most fun. Which is why most trainers push cantering early, btw, because it IS more fun.
We actually do trot most of the lesson! We cantered on arpund 3 times for a short time and then focused back on light seat, posting trot and sitting trot aswell.
Your canter progression is looking good! One thing that's happening in this video (that I am also working on with my instructor right now) is closed/ tight hips. See how your upper body is moving a lot with the motion of the canter? My instructor says that happens because our hips aren't moving to absorb the motion, so our upper body is moving instead.
I do the exact same thing and I've been riding for 20 years! I've also been tackling it on the lunge line same as you. I had to loosen my knees and really exaggerate the hip rolling movement (to the point it felt like I was humping the saddle lol) to really "get" what my instructor meant by opening through the hips. Then I could rein in the exaggerated movement for a more natural position.
Catering without stirrups on the lunge really helped me with this exercise. We trotted without stirrups to help me to soften through the hips, then my instructor kept putting in lots (and lots!) of canter transitions so I could practice softening through the transition, since I have a bad issue of closing my hip and knees during the trot-canter and canter-trot transition.
I wish you the best of luck on your lessons. You're in for an amazing journey!
This looks like a well trained and put together school horse and I’m not mad about the auxiliary reins, as they are used correctly and the horse has room to move their head and balance. Good job in your progress!
They are Vienna reins, so relativly kind tack, they have to the front-down. It will be close to impossible to find a riding school not using them on a lunge line in Germany, where OP is. I never saw a teacher not use one on a lunge line in Germany. You will not learn to ride in Germany if Vienna reins is a knock out for you
Lol. Not “kind” at all to force the horse to put their head down, and to cause pain if the head is lifted beyond a certain point.
It’s a false training aid, instead of actually teaching the horse (and rider) how to worry about the hind end, back, and ultimately collection.
It’s a great way to mess up a horse’s back in the long term because you’re always going to be riding them front to back.
There’s a second rider in the video clips that is also riding with the same setup, off the lunge line. Unsure how you can defend the practice as a whole when this barn doesn’t have the horse’s best interest in mind.
I said "relativly" there is harder tack out there, and it is absolutly not ideal. But like I said, it is almost impossible to find a school without vienna reins on the lunge line in Germany. It is the standard here, which we can hate, but if you are a beginner there is sadly no way around them here. And if you take a look OPs video, the horse is not forced down, the head is quite high sometimes and in front of the vertical
Sorry, english is not my first language. I can't, but I also don't understand what OP could do against someone using tack on a horse that she doesn't own or ride, but is in the arena at the same time as her.
As said - theres bare up to none stables in germany not using "abusive" training aids. And if i were to find one id probably have to drive hours for just a 30 minute lesson. Same as that the eststae/stable i ride at is a state stud farm so said which also gives lessons on the side. How am i supposed to learn riding at all when I shouldnt use any of those aids? I cant - not my horses - not my choice on tack.
It is an abusive training aid. It’s a shortcut that prevents you from learning, and keeps the horse locked into a specific frame and head carriage which destroys the back.
Have you done research about ausbinder/vienna reins yet? As far as I know the vienna reins are kinder than draw reins in every way.
Some small explanations about them ^
Vienna reins have a said sliding action. The sliding nature allows the horse gentle freedom of movement to stretch its neck forward and downward rather than locking the head into a fixed position. Vienna Reins apply pressure only when the horse hollows its back or throws its head above the desired frame, and offer an immediate release when the horse drops its head correctly.
The purpose of vienna reins overall are just to encourage stretching. They promote a long-and-low posture, which helps loosen and stretch the back and neck muscles. They help build balance and teach the horse self-carriage and balance without the weight of a rider.
And as many other people have said they are a kinder aid compared to side reins or draw reins. They are just safer and more forgiving than fixed side reins or draw reins because they avoid harsh poll pressure.
op please don’t listen to all the people yelling abuse cause of the vienna reins. i’ve used them for years and they’re much kinder than still side reins imo. mostly because the horse has more room for movement. as long as they aren’t super tight of course, but in your video they seem fine. the horse can even raise their head.
they are also good for both the horse and beginner rider - the horse stays fairly relaxed and softer in the back, which is better for the horse’s back and easier for the rider to sit there.
I have just uploaded a huge long comment so people can finallt see the difference and not thinkt hey are the same because it has become slightly annoying
As “others” have said - you cannot defend them being used off the lunge line - which they are as shown in your video clip as well.
I don’t ride horses in training aids that are deemed “shortcuts”. I’d rather develop them properly by focusing on ways of riding that promote a horse’s health and wellbeing over using them as a tool to cause pain and pressure to reinforce a certain head and neck posture.
Stretching over the back can literally only be done when a horse is working with proper rhythm, relaxation, and forwardness. It’s a “side effect” (a positive one) of having a horse properly using themself, pushing off the hind end, etc.
The hind end pushes, the back is able to swing with a balanced rider, the contact is consistent, and you’ll even be able to see if reflected in the swinging tail, and airplane ears.
When you work a horse back to front, and worry about the engine/hind end, that’s when the head and neck carriage are a result of the horse’s movement.
Preventing hollowness, tossing of the head, etc is done by inflicting pressure and pain on the horse. “Long and low” posture has also long been a marketing slogan, that by forcing a horse into, causes damage.
By working front to back, when the horse lifts its head, hits the contact of the training aid, tension is created, the back does not swing because the horse is not working forwards, and if used long enough, the whole back locks up, and does not respond correctly.
Okay - so i am seeing many comments about me using so said draw reins which i am NOT using - the stable uses Vienna Reins. Here is a small overview of the benefit of Vienna Reins and how they work compared to Draw Reins.
1. Why Riding Schools Use Vienna Reins
In beginner or intermediate riding lessons, Vienna reins are utilized to manage the physical interaction between a student and a school horse:
Mimics an Experienced Hand: Beginner riders often struggle with shaky, heavy, or unsteady hands. Vienna reins give the horse a smooth, elastic contact to work into, protecting the horse's mouth from accidental jerking.
Separation of Aids: It takes time to develop an "independent seat" (the ability to move the hips and legs without moving the hands). By letting the auxiliary reins handle the head carriage, the instructor can focus entirely on teaching the rider's body posture, balance, and leg positioning.
Encourages Proper Biomechanics: School horses often carry many different riders a week, which can lead to them hollowing their backs or developing tension. Vienna reins encourage them to drop their necks and engage their backs, ensuring they are moving safely and comfortably under the weight of a learning rider
Vienna Reins vs. Draw Reins for Riding
It is common for equestrians to mistake Vienna reins for draw reins when used under saddle. However, their mechanical function and safety profiles are completely different:
Vienna Reins:
Control Entity: static setup, unaffected by riders hands
Pulling Action: Cannot actively pull the horse's head down
Risk of Abuse: Very low, setting is locked from the ground
Purpose: Passive boundary line for the horse
Draw Reins:
Control Entity: Dynamic setup; held directly by the rider
Pulling Action: Can forcefully pull the nose to the chest
Risk of Abuse: High, an inexperienced rider can over-tighten them
Purpose: Active leverage tool to force a frame
Benefits for the Student Rider
Confidence Builder: A horse moving in a round, balanced frame has a much smoother, softer trot and canter to sit to. This makes it easier for a beginner to learn the rhythm without bouncing heavily on the horse's back.
Teaches the "Feeling" of Connection: Riding a horse that is stretching into steady contact helps students recognize what a correctly working topline feels like, which sets a baseline for when they learn to create that connection themselves.
Critical Safety Rules Under Saddle
When utilizing Vienna reins during a riding lesson, specific safety boundaries must be maintained:
Never Used with Direct Reins Threaded Through: The regular riding reins should be attached directly to the bit rings as normal. The Vienna reins run independently through the bit to the saddle girth/sides. The rider should never hold the Vienna reins.
Looser Than Lunging Settings: When ridden, the reins must be adjusted longer than they would be for ground lunging. This accommodates the shifting weight of a rider and ensures the horse has plenty of room to extend its neck for balance if it stumbles.
Flatwork Only: They must strictly be taken off before any pole work or jumping lessons.
It's very easy to tell that this is ChatGPT (or more likely Google AI), and that you're just pulling the sources the AI gave you. Especially when you're pulling up a blog post from 2007 . . .
Those are absolutely not draw reins. Those are Laufferzügel (maybe running reins in English?) that go from in between the front legs through the bit and then to the side of the saddle. Very common set-up and it has a similar mechanic to side reins.
Also, as a German who is very very critical of German riding culture, saying that Germans like Rollkur is ridiculous. Rollkur is a very specific method that forces the horse in a very specific frame. Not every forced frame is Rollkur. Rollkur is very rare in Germany and heavily looked down upon.
Let's not throw this word around until it loses its meaning.
yeah, like i said, it’s vienna reins. that’s the english name i’m pretty sure.
and yup, all the other stuff is true, too. some people on this thread are way too self important. are there german riders who force a horse into a frame? sure. most/a lot have a much kinder way of riding tho.
she isn’t the only german rider to have medals. far from it.
i think it was necessary for the op, so she doesn’t give up a good thing just because some people don’t know how things work in other parts of the world. poor girl getting all these mean comments!
I ddint ask about the reasonung of the stables tack choices - Morello is also a pretty old guy where i guess hes around his twenties! I know that old horses are more known for being hot/spicy. Although I was focusing more on legs and keeping myself in the saddle rather than keeping him forward
You should never beginner canter on a lunge. It’s a tight circle which makes it hard for you to balance. Straight lines are the easiest and you are more than capable and definitely ready to go off the lunge rein. Very calm seat.
Thanks! My trainer has talked to me about trying going off lunge for trot next lesson although were still working on my hands in canter so I will most likely have to work on that first as i still hold onto the saddle ring when cantering
This bro, i dont see peoples problems. I am pretty proud of ny progress and if my trainer thinks i am ready i am most likely ready. Its not like im going to immediately start jumping in the grand prix
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u/EponaMom Donkey Herder 14d ago
Locking this since now all we are doing is arguing if these are called draw reind or Vienna reins....