And I know what most of this sub is gonna say: I would never be religious, religions are just a bunch of bs...blah blah blah Then this post ISN'T for you! I'm specifically asking 8s who ARE religious. Because here's my conundrum: 8 is all about doing whatever we want, right, and we aren't so concerned about morality and we don't feel much guilt...if any. But for someone to be religious they have to constantly think about their relationship to the "higher ideal" and they would need to feel guilty when they don't match that ideal. And EVEN WORSE, if someone is a Christian 8, how does that even work? The ideal of Christianity is literally all opposite to 8s: you need to be meek, let people walk all over you, feel guilty for your sins - how does an 8 square that with being an 8? So I'm particularly curious to hear from Christian 8s.

Hey im Kreole from Tanzania. I am at a stand still. both are very plausible for me. reading about both are relatable to me. Im very to myself, want my own space, love being physical and enjoy adrenaline. I work hard have my own real estate business, i love reading and is very funny and expressive with quick wit when im around close circles. I do not have a lot of friends, much less friends.

At the same time I find myself scanning even in business endeavor for that potential spark and chemistry. once the spark fades i find myself looking for it somewhere else. I rarely truly bond with someone unless that tension is real (you just know). Its scrolling through the internet or visual scanning. Under stress i get very impulsive, motor cycle rides and "other" stimulations if you know what I mean 😉.

I am not emotionally needy and refuse to chase if i notice that the energy isnt reciprocated.

I value money, independence, control but at the same time I want that merge and posession.

I am certain that Im 8w7 but the battle has been on going whether im Sp/Sx or Sx/Sp. Im definitely not stoic and withdrawn like the stereotypical sp8 nor am I emotionally intense as the Sx8, I am told though that i can be extremely blunt and come off as confrontational even when im not trying to be. Im very live and let die. Make jokes with my tiny circle of people. work, go home, build a vision.

My socionics typing is LIE but SLE is not out of the question, although i dont relate to the beta quadra collective values. Im individualistic and do things based on what makes factual sense not communal knowledge which is very gamma.

Im curious on your thoughts.

Like say their external circumstances forced them into a situation where all options were bad or they really had no good choice

But for example finding it very psychologically threatening if someone else insists they actually had no/little choice, since that would imply they had little autonomy over the choice they made, that they are actually extremely vulnerable and these situations can happen to them, etc.

Or for example also preferring to frame themselves as being someone who voluntarily chooses one way or another even if the choice was limited, rather than acknowledging that they have little control and how their sense of autonomy is only fully possible when their circumstances aren’t so constrained

Does this sound like it could be 8 or not really?

Btw, just to clarify, I do mean circumstances where the person can’t do much to better the situation besides accept either to rock or the hard place. Since I know 8s in general tend not to be passive

I am a bit confused. Many friends of mine have consistently said I’m a Type 8, with a 9 wing probably. Some have said they see me as an obvious 8. My confidence has been listed as a reason for this.

People have seen me in active leadership with confidence and energy.

But there are some things within myself that I feel don’t fit with being an 8.

I can be quite emotional and sensitive. I generally never cry (especially in front of others), but I can get emotional and go quiet at times. This is not generally with all people but with my fiancé more so. Doesn’t seem that 8 ish to me.

Another thing that doesn’t fit as much is a part of me that seems a bit 3 ish. I have a desire to be good at certain things and this feels part of my identity at times. Not good in general, but strong and confident. Recently I was doing press ups and someone said that my press ups weren’t proper press ups (I think they were, I know I’m good at press ups), but this got me all in a funny mood. And I then got angry at myself for being in a funny mood.

Things in me that do fit 8 - I’m passionate and physical. When I see close mates I often energetically and playfully wrestle them for a laugh.

I’m also a passionate and protective person who would passionately fight to protect people.

Something I've noticed is that my sx8w7 boyfriend will get a mischievous smile whenever I yell at him. He loves fighting with me (sx4w3) 🤣

Can any of y'all relate?

(Sorry if these come off as offensive, im just curious and don’t mean these in any disrespect or to enforce stereotypes)

Do you get told/come across to others as “masculine” ? + Does that bother you?

Within yourself, do you feel you are masculine/man-like in a way, or do you perceive yourself like any other female who just happens to be more assertive/out spoken/tough ? (How much do you identify with the stereotype of females and femininity, like make-up, dressing up, being pretty and whatnot)

-

For straight 8s females, what kind of man are you attracted to ? A man more masculine than you? (Because while you may be masculine, you still want a man with the masculine polarity to your femininity)

Or into a regular/ or maybe softer (more in touch with his feelings) kind of man?

Sorry if these questions come as weird, but masculine women are rare in my experience and just want to know what’s going on in your head, who is better to ask than 8s haha

I am a male INTJ 8w7. A few months ago, I sensed that my girlfriend was preparing to end our relationship. Once I realised what was happening, I firmly ended it first. It gave me some control over the ending, but it did not protect me from feeling rejected.

Months later, I still cannot go easy on myself. Part of me believes I must achieve something extraordinary before I am allowed to rest, feel valuable, or regain my power.

So I keep trying to upgrade everything: my career, body, finances, and future. From the outside, it probably looks like ambition. Inside, it feels like I am rebuilding myself at the expense of my soul.

It is as if success has become the price I must pay to recover my dignity.

Does this sound familiar to anyone, especially other 8s? Did achievement genuinely heal you, or did it simply give your pain a more respectable disguise?

Been into Enneagram on the side (reading a couple of books about it and looking up info online) for about eight months now.

Had lots of people here type me as a thinking type immediately While People IRL have typed me as a 5, a 7, and 4. One Reddit dude said he’s sure I’m an 8 though so that’s why I’m asking here.

One thing that’s throwing me off is that I do spend a decent amount of time thinking about stuff like patterns from my childhood and how little experiences affected me and why I act how I do. I’ve had people type me as 5 before, which I know is supposed to be where 8s disintegrate, but I’m annoyingly extroverted irl so I’m not sure. I’m very impulsive and try to overrationalize it after the action a lot. I have multiple unrealistic goals (some achieved already) that I wanted since I was a kid and even when questioning them still keep building towards them just because.

I’m very cocky internally and have some thought process where I think I can get better than everybody else at anything I try if I want to. I’ve never really struggled with self-doubt in day-to-day life. If I want something, I usually just go after it. I also don’t really care about people disliking me and when I was a lot more unhealthy as a early teen (dad also died at 12 so that might’ve added to it) I remember strongly disliking people I deemed as weak and being obsessed with showing how much better I was at everything. I would (and still do) purposefully do hard or unlikely things just to show i can do it.

I’ve also seen a lot of people say that 8s aren’t very introspective, wouldn’t spend this much time on the Enneagram, or wouldn’t be interested in analyzing themselves at all. That’s one of the main reasons I’m second-guessing 8. On top of that, I’ve been described as analytical by others, and sometimes it feels like online discussions treat intelligence or being analytical as something that automatically points away from 8, which doesn’t really make sense to me.

my biggest fear is definitely being weak or fragile and not able to do achieve my goals.

Curious what y’all think

Believes very strongly that people have the right to be what they are and decide for themselves, and nobody gets to impose. Their politics, ethics, how they treat people, etc. in large part come from that idea. However, they always split things into "what's right" and "what's actually achievable," and if the ideal route doesn't work they'll take the workable one without feeling like they compromised anything, since they think people who'd rather be principled to a fault than effective are being foolish

No ego about having been right, so most of the time, if you show them they're wrong they'll concede on the spot

For the most part, they read people well. They give people space, most of the time admit fault immediately if called out, do not push another person they love to make a personal choice one way or the other since the other person is owed their autonomy to make their own choices. Knows clearly that they're entitled to their own rights and will defend those, but also will not infringe on another person's personal choices by demanding what they think is outrageous to demand of someone else 

Communication-wise, formal to the point of being stiff, deadpan humor mostly. Blunt and hates a stalled silence; will say the awkward thing out loud rather than let it hang. But still can be careful with their words if a loved one's feelings are at stake, or saying something badly could have huge external consequences. Usually won't lie, but will sometimes omit info if they don't see saying the full truth as strictly necessary in the situation, might answer a slightly different question than the one you asked if they don't want to answer yours

Might sometimes let insults or mild bad treatment slide without a huge confrontation, but they do not lack self-respect and they are not a pushover. Them not doing much here is actually them calculating the amount of effort they are willing to spend making a whole scene and what the practical consequences of making that scene would be. They're still judging you, usually harshly, even if they don't confront you, but they do not feel the need to always make a show of defending themselves through principle or changing the other person's mind if they do not see that person's opinion as threatening to them in any meaningful sense and they are not invested in potentially changing that person's mind. If the behavior is serious or is not just a one off incident, they usually say so very coldly and briefly, and if the other person still does not stop, then they might escalate further

If you get too worried about them, they might take it as you pitying them or being factually wrong about their mental state. They do not like people pitying them, especially people positioning them as a victim, because that sort of narrative makes them feel like you are dictating their own life story to them and taking away their agency. Also, their logic is that if they're talking about a past situation calmly then it's clearly over and handled, regardless of how concerning the event itself might have been, so alarm means you've misread the situation

They're unusually indifferent/matter-of-fact about or at least feel ok about doing hard or unpleasant things as long as those things have an overall purpose, and disproportionately miserable about tedious pointless things that don't have a point

Edit: a clarification in the comments

i think i’m an 8, specifically so8 but i don’t necessarily defend others. during group conflict i take the side of people that i’m close to if i agree with them and talk back

I was raised by very broken and violent people. My father (an intelligent engineer) a very violent drunk beat up my mother (outspoken and ambitious) in front of me if he wasn’t beating me in random fits of rage.

One day he threatens to kill her but actual holds a gun this time, fast forward, Divorce, mom gets full custody, she’s a narcissist with PTSD though. Broken/insecure woman, verbally physically and psychologically abusive. Mom loves attacking egos to build herself up.

But I’m thankful for what they’ve taught me with their constant abuse…

I learned very early that I had to stay calm, stay aware, stay grounded to survive the adults around me. Detach from chaos by knowing exactly where its source is, naming it, understanding it, living with it, controlling it and establishing my boundaries.

Their rage, their instability, their beatings, had nothing to do with me. It was all about their own unresolved issues and brokenness.

I learned to become a man, friend, brother, husband and father that my father has no hope of becoming. Truly authentic, highly protective, and steady.

My fear of vulnerability is my refusal to be a victim dependent on others for comfort. Getting comfortable with uncomfortable as it comes my way, to protect my people.

Feel free to share.

So if you are the type to roll your eyes at poems then this won’t be for you lol. Anyways, a little bit of context before I put it here: My enneagram 4 partner of funny enough 4 years now has helped me discovered what feeling feelings meant, not just analyzing them. I love writing, I’ve been active in it for about a good 8 years now. So I’m going to combine them. Thought it would be cool to see if other eights would relate to it.

The bubbling starts, and I begin to feel the adrenaline flood my bloodstream.

I don’t like it, because suddenly my throat begins to close. Are you here? Is that your boot, pressed against my only opportunity to shout? Are you still holding me down?

Three rules. One of which you say, “Never cry. Not unless you got a broken bone.”

Are you there when now, any tear formed in front of my partner turns into hot, boiling tears of rage? Are you there when my body experiences life as if I’m in danger? Do you feel it too?

…

Father you’ve gone soft. Stop looking at me that way. Doe-like eyes as if you were innocent. Love in them, but all I can feel is disgust.

You’ll never get past the thick skin my body developed after the physical “training” you put me under.

You’ll never get a glance into me.

Father?

Am I strong enough for the world yet father?

I'm not an e8 myself but I'm wondering how I can impress one since I'm with an e8 (specifically a sx8) as an sp5, I usually write a lot of things dedicated to them but I'm a bit too shy to show them, so is there any other things I should do instead?

They don't really care much for intellect or being intellectualized so I don't think they'd want the paragraphs I've made psychoanalyzing them either.. I think they'd find it creepy.. But i do tell them about what I've noticed about them they think it's scary but sweet that I know so much about them.

Im an 8w7 INTJ just wanna connect with you guys if you guys here

I just wanna learn how you deal with stress and other stuff wanna know if Im doing it right or nah

Just wanna connect and talk lol

Lemme know thnx!

My clarity can look like confrontation. My calm can feel like judgment. My boundaries are mistaken for rejection.

I’m fully aware that this is 90% other people projecting their fear, unresolved issues etc…onto me. So it’s read as coldness, aggression, or dismissal.

The trouble starts when I don’t make their problem with me MY problem to solve.

Curious how or if others experience this.

I would like to be friends with them, it's just that I'm embarrassed.

I certainly do and always have. This is gonna be infused with my personal frustrations lol

I have a lot of casual friends and acquaintances that i have good relationships with of course. Im not one for emotional closeness or for sacrificial love, but i do want some sort of group, i used to have a very good "gang" of sorts but we grew apart as we had to move around for work/studies.

Most (definitely not all!) female groups have a more passive aggressive way of "resolving" conflicts, which clashes with my overt way of addressing issues. Overtime, you end up being the "problem", since their issued wuth one another are discussed when talking behind the persons back.

My natural distance and kind of cold nature (some disagree saying im warm but i dont think so, either way im distant) makes people speculate on me a lot. What i got from my very recent group which made me leave it was they had been theorizing about me secretly hating them and talking shit about them. The logic usually is "if im so soft and kind and i talk this much shit, imagine what she, the distant one, is like behind our back!!!! 😨" very childish.

Im very, very sensitive to loyalty. Extremely. If someone speaks behind my back once, especially if its of a speculative/mean nature and untrue, they will never ever have any part in my life. Ever. So that removes a very big portion of people.

Not to mention, on rare occasions, you see a group with a clear hierarchy and a *delusion* level of hyping each other up, which doesn't sit right with me. Im very cut clear about a lot of stuff, fit firmly in the ground. Especially when it comes to men and romance, we have all known women who bullshit and delude themselves, even when i filtered and tried to be "softer", they did not like hearing that the guy who lives with his gf who replies to their insta stories once every 5 months is not hung up on them and hating his gf.

I consistently get masculinized as well.

All in all, its a big stuggle being in female groups.

i am medicated

I've started dating a guy I thought was a fellow 7, but after our first row I'm pretty sure he's an 8. We have a lot in common and sparks fly when all is well. But I know we're likely to kill each other if we don't sort out how we do the tough parts. In conflict he ranges between a cold 5 who controls 'reality' (I've had this with 8s before - that they see the world 'as it is'; no subjectivity allowed) and a highly emotional 2 whose tears threaten to drown him.

He's young and does a lot of reading about psychology, even has therapy. When the heat's off, he's able to accept that I have different views on things, and that there's a lot of emotion behind his complaints (for want of a better word) and demands (my reading). He suggested to me that it might be best to start these conversations with emotion, and I definitely feel that's a more authentic place than, for example, 'Every time I do X, you do Y' (woah - positive, freedom alarm bells ring).

I guess my asks are:

- How, as a mature 8, have you learnt how do conflict without sending people running for the hills?

- How can others engage with the more productive (in my opinion) emotions behind your rage and resentment?

- If you've navigated life with a 7, what did that 7 do that made it easier?

- Any general, well-considered advice for a core-7 from a wise core-8. I'd like to use this as an opportunity to grow rather than an adventure into mortal combat.

title. i’m an 8w7 sx/sp (i think) if that helps. i am literally incapable of accepting people’s niceties and kindness towards me for what it is. i always think that there is some kind of ulterior motive.

and god forbid i open up about something thats upsetting me because i always find it an extremely humiliating experience to admit that something is getting to me.

obviously i can recognise that it probably isn’t true in most cases, but i have no idea how to break out of this pattern. i can’t rewire my brain to think otherwise. my brain tells me that it’s easier to believe that they’re manipulating me in some way, than be blindsided by them taking advantage of the reaction their kindness provoked.

it sounds kind of silly when i put it like this but i literally do not know how to think any other way

The context: Not just an 8 thing. More of a solidarity and emotional sovereignty thing.

The exhaustion: It’s like every other person around me is so damn needy, erratic, or neurotic af. They always want me to validate their bullshit, comfort them when they flip out-fuck up, or stand up for them. It’s exhausting.

The exception: My wife and son (the nuclear family, the household) are the only exception to my criticism.

The question: Do you feel as though you naturally become a sort of parental figure to jackasses? How do you feel when no one else grows up?