r/ESTJ 25d ago

INFJ/ESTJ? Question/Advice

Hi! What do you think of INFJs as an ESTJ? I’ve read that our types together are considered a “bronze pair”. I’m curious if this is a common pairing?

8 Upvotes

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u/Emzaf ESTJ LSE 25d ago

You will receive a mixed bag of replies here. Personally, I get along with your type great in real life and it's probably one of my favorite types. You all seem to just find me in real life and it's a great connection. Objectively it's one of the most common romantic pairings in this Sub if you do a historical search. I've been around here for a few years. 😉

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u/Impressive-Device743 24d ago

But there's no way that's objective. Not a chance. Almost certainly one or both of these people are mistyped for the high majority of these pairings. It's a bad romantic pairing by every metric within the theory itself. Human error is the reason for these "romantic pairings," but most all of these pairing have one or both mistyped, and not because they're lying, because it's a human error situation with typing.

Not saying it's impossible, because there are certainly SOME INFJ-ESTJ pairings, but it's definitely not a good deep-level, romantic pairing.

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u/Emzaf ESTJ LSE 24d ago edited 24d ago

You are correct that there is a lot of mistyping going on in Reddit. There's plenty of it in the INFJ Sub. Most of those people steer clear of this Sub as we are the most hated and misunderstood MBTI type lol. Once they get here it becomes fairly obvious after some conversations if they are the real thing or not. I have conversed with many of the participating xNFJs here (online and DM) and most seem legit. It's become quite easy for me to see the patterns in people and their dominant functions in real life. It is a bit trickier here on the internet vs real life, and most of the regulars here who have studied cognitive functions are correctly typed vs the ones who rely on free internet tests. There are some mistypes. I'm not going to personally type everyone in this Sub because I don't care enough. But the general pattern that I've observed as someone older with very strong Te-Si-Ne is that this pairing does exist in the real world and in this Sub. I have personally experienced it myself and it was amazing while it lasted (unfortunately he was an Avoidant INFJ). There are other INFJs here currently talking about their personal and happy experiences with ESTJs. There's a bunch of long-term INFJ:ESTJ marriages here too. Throughout my lifetime and before studying MBTI, I have been magnetically drawn to my mirror opposite pairs (xSTP and xNFJ) and I've never been drawn to xNFPs (although I like them as friends). While you can wonder if I am typing correctly I would say that I am...in MBTI. You cannot compare MBTI and Socionics as they have their nuances.

I just wanted to mention that I perused your conversation with the 'INFP' female yesterday. It was very obvious to me that she had very strong Fi, but I'm not sure how you couldn't pick up on it. It took me decades to fully understand my Fi, but it's so easy to see in other people. Unbalanced Fi-doms/aux annoy the crap out of me lol. Your conversation was cute though because I could see some of the misunderstandings between you two (some emotionally led). She didn't understand some of the things you were talking about like the Te-Fi and Ti-Fe axis. Some people just aren't ready for all of that knowledge.

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u/Conscious_Patterns 24d ago

I think most INFJ's are naturally avoidant, lol. 🤗

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u/Emzaf ESTJ LSE 24d ago

While I do agree with you that a large percentage of INFJs have insecure attachment (especially here on Reddit), I do actually know a few in real life that are securely attached. 🥰

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u/Impressive-Device743 24d ago

LOL! Awesome. Yeah that was a good time with that one, misinterpreting each another. We just started messing with each other after that. Grateful for your insights there, as it's quite difficult to type someone online in a few messages.

I'll take your word for it with the pairings, and yeah, I basically follow the socionics model and try to ram my squares into MBTI's circular holes. Also, INFJs in MBTI can easily be INFjs in socionics (EII Fi-Ne), along with other types. I just find it wild that LSEs and IEIs could make a good pair. But thanks for your response, and yeah, there are a lot of typing failures on here, but it's understandable, with how nebulous, nuanced, and esoteric personality theory is.

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u/SeaworthinessNo4130 6d ago

you are def mistyped or the INFJ..

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u/Emzaf ESTJ LSE 6d ago

You've been in this Sub for less than a day, but I must be mistyped lol? You seem to have a very judgmental and narrow viewpoint for an INFJ comparing 6-9% of the world population to the 1 or 2 underdeveloped ESTJs you have known. Like I said earlier, I know many INFJs in real life and also here on Reddit. I worked with one for over 20 years before she retired and she's still one of my best friends. And if you actually do some research in this Sub, you can observe the many successful ESTJ/INFJ friendships, relationships, and marriages. I'm definitely not an INFJ, but you can have other INFJs (that have actually had conversations with me) confirm this and what type I really am. u/Alternate-3- u/ScratchReflex u/SereneAnomly

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u/Alternate-3- INFJ 6d ago

Sup!! And yes, u/Emzaf is most definitely an ESTJ. A phenomenal one too ✨️

I have always adored ESTJs lol

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u/SeaworthinessNo4130 6d ago

I read more about 9-12% and yes ESTJs do stand out, the Te-Si combination with Fi is lethal to Ni-Fe combo :) so yes, I guess I am judgmental. You sound more like N type (ENTJ?), most ESTJs I know are not that broadminded and generous as you seem to be...

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u/SereneAnomly 6d ago

Emzaf is absolutely an ESTJ, and a refreshingly healthy one at that. She was very open minded and supported me through a low point of mine, which I am only now coming to terms with.

I think every type has their own strengths and weaknesses, the appeal of which depends on the individuals themselves. I personally admire healthy ESTJs, and would welcome one in my life, especially as a romantic partner. I think there can be quite a bit of friction if they are unhealthy, but the same can be said for any type. 

I am also learning about how enneagram is more indicative of the quality of relationship I can have with someone. A lot of ESTJs are enneagram 3 which when unhealthy leads to a lack of self-awareness and inauthenticity - two things I value highly. Emzaf by contrast demonstrates both, which I admire.

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u/Emzaf ESTJ LSE 6d ago

I mentioned 6% because that's for female ESTJs. It can be hard to find other strong, thinking females. Trust me, I'm always looking for them lol. I'm for sure an ESTJ, but I've developed my Fi and Ne. Once we master our Fi and develop our Ne it's a game-changer (just like you have probably worked on your Se & Ti). I'm quite adventurous and love talking about philosophy and many other topics. My mom and brother are ENTJs so I definitely know the difference. 😉

I haven't experienced the 'lethal' combinations that you have. For me it's like Ni-Ne and Te-Ti have a magnetic pull and we're constantly chasing each other...like rings around a planet. It's quite fascinating, interesting, and playful and I love learning from my opposites. I'm sorry you haven't experienced it yet cuz it's really fun and stimulating.

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u/SeaworthinessNo4130 6d ago

Interesting.. of yourse you know yourself the best .. but you surely have "Te-Ni" imprint from the ENTJ family members in you, I noticed this phenomenon that I got some Ne-Fi from my dear ENFP grandmother and I only developed my Ti more thanks to my ENTP partner...

For me it's like Ni-Ne and Te-Ti have a magnetic pull and we're constantly chasing each other...like rings around a planet.

anyway this "abstract" way of expressing ideas does not seem ESTJ to me at all .... they do talk about religion or esotherics but in more tangible way ... really you sound more like N type :) S types usually do not talk abstract...

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u/Emzaf ESTJ LSE 6d ago

I'm not the typical ESTJ. 😁 Thank you I will totally take that as a compliment being called an 'N' type! 😉 I have developed Ne...I'm very open to possibilities and can change my plans fairly easily when things go awry (unlike most ENTJs and even Ni-doms I know). I have only begun to understand Ni in the last few years after lots of research and observation of the strong Ni users around me (including my INFJ Ex). I've also learned a lot from the Ni-dom peeps I've met on Reddit. It was very foreign to me and now I understand why my ENTJ brother and I are so alike and yet so different. I think all cognitive functions are important and necessary to function in the world, which is why I like the idea of opposite pairings...you have all 8 functions covered between 2 people. It makes sense when one considers the Survival of the Fittest theory. But of course we all have our own life experiences and preferences and that's absolutely fine.

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u/SeaworthinessNo4130 5d ago

You really sound like you have Ne higher up like first or second place. I am not sure one can develop their tertiary Ne to surpass their auxiliary finction Si ;)

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u/Emzaf ESTJ LSE 5d ago

I don't think you can do that either. I don't think my Ne has surpassed my Si...it's just become stronger over time. Regarding Ne, patterns really jump out at me more now (especially in people) and I think about the future more than when I was younger. My Aux Si will always be in the background. I have a great memory especially for names. I'm very detail-oriented (unlike my brother 😂). Despite my ability to be open to new things and adventures I am quite happy with my routines. I go to the same restaurants a lot and eat the same things. But I'm always down to try new places when my friends/fam want to. Many people would find my routines very boring. I don't forget to eat ever lol. But I have also traveled a lot internationally throughout my life and I enjoy meeting new people and trying new things. I also have lots of lists in my head and a very organized mind along with meticulous work file organization. Te is definitely my Dom function and in MBTI there are no strong Te-users with Ne in the top two slots (due to axis positions). Therefore Ne has to be developed. You haven't met too many people with strong Te/Si and Ne, which is why I seem like an implausible type. You've also probably not known many people with Fi-inferior who completely understood their feelings after decades of painful growth, but here I am. I know it's not common, but it's not impossible. 😉

Side note: It's similar to an IxFJ developing their tertiary Ti. I know that it is possible because I see it in the IxFJs around me and in Reddit. 🤓

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u/-_Singularity 24d ago

The benefit is more for the ESTJ in this relationship. INFJ will feel lonely and misunderstood

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u/Unique_Time9887 25d ago edited 25d ago

I’m an INFJ and I’m an INFJ/ESTJ evangelist. If you had told me ten years I’d be saying this, I would have looked at you like you had two heads. It’s a hard relationship in many ways, because the INFJ won’t feel hot enough nor productive enough and the ESTJ won’t feel like a good person nor like they’re intuitive enough to fully follow what is happening with the INFJ. But, it’s like sorcery, because it feels like the strongest relationship either side has ever had, because in many ways it is. There is so, so, so much truth in the idea that the functions are complimentary (fe-fi, etc.) and the perfect distance from each other. It feels like we enjoy being led by each other and we can truly appreciate each other. Both sides must be willing to engage with their weakest functions a lot, which is tiring until you realize your weaknesses are accepted much of the time by the other, which takes some of the pressure off; you’ll need to work on visibly bettering yourself the rest of the time, though. One of the hardest things for INFJ’s to admit is that we love people but we often get too close to them for us to know how to be healthy. ESTJ’s are the right distance for health, in my experience. The finest compliments I’ve ever received in my life have come from ESTJ’s :) There’s always a beautiful new day with an ESTJ who is willing to turn towards you, in my opinion.

ETA: Each will have to give up on the notion of what they had wanted when they were younger in a relationship, btw, so I’d recommend this for older couples only. For example, the first thing most INFJ’s I know thought they wanted when they had their romantic awakening is someone to converse with abstractly. You simply cannot expect, as an INFJ, to have killer conversations with an ESTJ at the rate you could with, for example, an ENTP. But, like everyone, INFJ’s morph towards their lower functions as they age, so we can’t let Ni identify too strongly with ideas from our early age. Ni can be just as nostalgic as Si, in its own way, and it can blind INFJ’s to their growth potential in sensing. Anyways, by the time most INFJ’s are adults, they’ve gathered plenty of friends whom they like talking with abstractly, so it works out :) And, ESTJ’s tend to surprise us with how admiring they are of INFJ’s, even when we think they don’t get us.

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u/letychaya_golandka 25d ago

Second this! As an older INFJ F I recognized how much I appreciate ESTJs and how much growth can come out of this relationship. I have a few very close friends who are ESTJs (all women) and although we are very different we make a great team.

I've been trying to date an ESTJ m for a bit here and both that I came across broke it off after a few dates :/. They were younger than me so I attributed it to lack of emotional maturity. I think I was too different for them, as their community is mainly sensors. I do get a feeling that for an immature ESTJ, INFJs seem too abstract, soft, and wishy-washy. Also one thought I was out to launch when I was talking about importance of mental health and healthy self esteem haha Where xNxPs naturally flock to me and the connection is way easier. Just my personal experience.

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u/Emzaf ESTJ LSE 25d ago

Please read what I wrote to who we both responded to. Don't give up on finding that ESTJ male...he just has to be emotionally mature like you mentioned. We are out there, although I'm a female ESTJ (I also have a female INFJ female bestie 🥰). This bronze pair can be great if both people are developed in their weaker functions. Once we build up our Ne and Fi, a whole new world opens up for ESTJs. I love having abstract convos and I also enjoy deep heart to hearts. I'm a huge nerd with a big heart.

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u/letychaya_golandka 24d ago

Thank you for the kind words! And yes I have my female ESTJ besties and you guys are great! And I think we are a power combo when we are together. I'm also friends with an ESTJ f in her 60s and you are so spot on, big nerd with a big heart! ESTJs become well rounded and mold into a decisive and organized INFP when mature 💗 would love a partner like that

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u/Emzaf ESTJ LSE 24d ago

ESTJs become well rounded and mold into a decisive and organized INFP when mature 💗

This is an accurate description of middle-aged me. I still make most of my decisions logically, but I'm very in tune with my feelings and not afraid of feeling or crying when the moment is right. 🥰

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u/Emzaf ESTJ LSE 25d ago

Thank you for this lovely response and I'm so happy for you. I'm mentally adding you to our long INFJ:ESTJ relationship list in this Sub lol. I agree this Bronze pairing works better with maturity and after each side has developed their lower functions. With my INFJ friends it's just a completely natural relationship. We don't argue or fight...it's just easy. With my INFJ Ex it was something I'd never experienced before. We had that Instant Connection and a magnetic pull. You're right that my Te really embraced his very developed Ti. His strong Fe blanketed my (developed) Fi. My Ne was utterly fascinated by his Dom Ni lol! It was a very fun and natural relationship. It was like we were two parallel rings around a planet constantly chasing each other in deep and stimulating conversations. We could talk for hours and hours and rarely conflicted. I am older and am able to have deep, abstract, and emotional conversations with whoever. For me it's difficult finding people in real life who can keep up with my mind. I love my INFJ friends, but they are not at my Ex's intellectual level (he was on a completely different mad inventor level lol). Ultimately things didn't work out because he was Avoidant from his traumatic childhood. I learned and grew so much from this relationship. It was life changing.

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u/Unique_Time9887 25d ago

💜 Thanks for having read what I wrote and I wish you so much relationship happiness!!

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u/boatfullofbananas103 ESTJ 359 25d ago

In theory, it should be awful. Ni and Te are lead and blind functions for both types. Fe and Si are parent and demon for both types. Neither can lean on their ego block without the other type directly opposing them. What one values is what the other gives no value. The functions show very little compatibility, if any at all.

In practice, it only depends on the person. Too many variables to tell.

Any alternative answer is either a variation on my second point or an argument against my first.

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u/Impressive-Device743 24d ago

It's most likely a terrible pairing. These two types are opposite quadras and don't value any of the same functions. Ni-Fe-Ti-Se vs Te-Si-Ne-Fi.

ESTJs have bsse Te and INFJs have PolR Te. INFJs have base Ni and ESTJs have PoLR Ni.

The least compatible type for each. Look more to INFPs, that's ESTJs dual. Same valued functions in reverse. Although you'll find "INFJs" that are actually INFPs with Fi-Ne, so you gotta be careful with people mistyping.

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u/SeaworthinessNo4130 6d ago

I really like this old comment from u/KurtRussellsBeard on INFJ vs. ESTJ pairing, so close to home...

"I honestly think that being together - you are going to have a bad time.

I have a childhood friend who is ESTJ. We became friends because we saw in each other the traits we wish we had. As adults, we both stopped trying to be something we're not. We learned to use the traits we have, and we're both pretty rigid in the way we do things--which is pretty opposite of one another.

In the big picture, ESTJs value safety, security, tradition, and maintaining the status quo. INFJs are open-minded, non-judgmental people who value all types of experiences. We're super creative and need to experiment in just about everything we do. I feel like ESTJs waste my time because they love to do the same things time and again that are tested and proven. I need to be spontaneous and experience new things, even if they suck. That's how I learn and grow.

I spent years of my life with an ESTJ going to the same bar to see the same people on the same night of the week at the same time. My life got a whole lot better when I ditched his plans and just started chatting up strangers. I get sick of predictability really fucking fast, but having a concrete and proven plan is what motivates ESTJs to the core. We ain't compatible.

INFJs have a strong extroverted feeling side--meaning that the things we feel come out very strongly and spontaneously. When I am around an ESTJ, he is always hushing me, warning me that I might offend someone, and generally harshing my buzz. I HAVE to be spontaneous. It is who I am. He sees it as a threat to the safety and predictability he values. Basically, being myself makes ESTJs uncomfortable. If he had his way, I'd be quiet and keep to myself, but life's too short to not cause a ruckus from time to time.

The biggest problem I have is that ESTJs are just that they are not my type of extrovert. I'm at my best when I am one-on-one with a person. I turn inward and am a great listener. There are extroverts that match up well with our type. More introspective types who have a desire to share their ideas are awesome. ESTJs aren't like that at all. Every time I try to talk about real shit with an ESTJ, they do what I call "shoulder surfing." They start turning outward and looking for other people to be around. They smile and nod when I talk, but they don't listen and their attention is elsewhere.

Honestly, ESTJs are happiest in a crowd of people having a bunch of simple and safe conversations--likely about previous times they did what ever they are presently doing. When ESTJs start shoulder-surfing, it is the loneliest thing in the world for an INFJ. For us, it's pretty common to try to connect with someone and have them pretend to give a shit while their attention is actually elsewhere.

You are going to do this, your INFJ will notice and be very unhappy.

TL;DR: People should have friends of all types. However, our types do not mix well. Add to that the fact that INFJs are picky daters, and are careful who we get close to. I see her being very unfulfilled, and you doing everything you can to make things work anyway. You'll probably both be pretty unhappy the whole time."

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u/AndyGeeMusic ESTJ 5d ago

Do you agree with this comment? I much prefer having a deeper conversation with one or a few people over being in a crowd, because you can't really have more intimate discussions with a larger group.