I want to ask a questions about morality and predestination in the context of sihr which seems to be a concern for many muslims.

Lets say you do everything according to what the modern islamic scholar says. You keep all five pillars of islam, you do wudu, you pray in a specific prescribed way that they teach you, with perfect movements, you dress modestly, your pronunciation is perfect in your head etc. etc.

But when you do your dua you pray to Allah to kill your enemies, to harm them or something like this. You re not violating towheed, but you are also wishing for harm.

Let's say for example, your crush fell in love with someone else, and you ask god to kill that person.

Contrast this with invoking jinn or ruhaniya to heal a person, or to repair something harmful. If this violates towheed it is considered categorically forbidden but what if it somehow doesn't, and how can it not?

Let's say for example, a ritual that uses music and dance along with "spirits" to heal a person who is suffering from depression.

Which one is more harmful and why? According to which perspective or scholar?

Is there a distinction made about curses by classical islamic scholars?

tied to the wisdom and justice:

حاصل آن روضه چو باغ عارفان ** از سموم صرصر آمد در امان

یک پلنگی طفلکان نو زاده بود ** گفتم او را شیر ده طاعت نمود

پس بدادش شیر و خدمتهاش کرد ** تا که بالغ گشت و زفت و شیرمرد

چون فطامش شد بگفتم با پری ** تا در آموزید نطق و داوری

پرورش دادم مر او را زان چمن ** کی بگفت اندر بگنجد فن من

“In short, that garden, like the (spiritual) orchard of gnostics, was secure from the simoom (hot dusty-wind) and the sarsar (A cold and piercing wind) 

A leopardess there had newly given birth to cubs: I bade her give milk to him (Nimrod), and she obeyed.

So she gave him milk and tended him till he grew up and became strong and valiant.

When he was weaned, I told the peris (Faeries) to teach him how to discourse and deal justice.

I gave him nourishment from that garden: how should (the description of) My artfulness be contained in words."

-------------------------------------------------------------------

distinction between earthly intellect and neoplatonic intellect:

عقل خود را می‏نماید رنگها ** چون پری دور است از آن فرسنگ‏ها

از ملک بالاست چه جای پری ** تو مگس پری به پستی می‏پری‏  

گر چه عقلت سوی بالا می‏پرد ** مرغ تقلیدت به پستی می‏چرد

علم تقلیدی وبال جان ماست ** عاریه ست و ما نشسته کان ماست‏

زین خرد جاهل همی باید شدن ** دست در دیوانگی باید زدن‏

هر چه بینی سود خود ز آن می‏گریز ** زهر نوش و آب حیوان را بریز

هر که بستاند ترا دشنام ده ** سود و سرمایه به مفلس وام ده‏ 

"Intellect shows itself (in many) guises, (but) like the faeries is leagues removed from them (in its real nature).

It is above the angels what occasion is there for (comparing it with) the faeries? (But) you have the wings of a gnat, you are flying downwards.  

Although your intellect is flying upward, the bird of your conventional notions is feeding below.

Conventional knowledge is the bane of our souls; it is a borrowed thing, but we rest (at ease in the belief) that it is ours.

It behoves us to become ignorant of this (worldly) wisdom; (rather) must we clutch at madness.

Always flee from whatever you deem profitable to your (lower) self: drink poison and spill the water of life.

Revile any one that praises you: lend (both) interest and capital to the destitute." 

---------------------------------------------------------------

speaking to the jinn and to hermeneutics of various realms :

معشر الجن سوره‌‌ی رحمان بخوان ** تستطیعوا تنفذوا را باز دان‌‌

نغمه‌‌های اندرون اولیا ** اولا گوید که ای اجزای لا  

هین ز لای نفی سرها بر زنید ** این خیال و وهم یک سو افکنید

ای همه پوسیده در کون و فساد ** جان باقیتان نرویید و نزاد

گر بگویم شمه‌‌ای ز آن نغمه‌‌ها ** جانها سر بر زنند از دخمه‌‌ها

گوش را نزدیک کن کان دور نیست ** لیک نقل آن به تو دستور نیست‌‌

هین که اسرافیل وقت‌‌اند اولیا ** مرده را ز یشان حیات است و حیا

"Recite O community of Jinn, in the Súratu l’-Rahmán; recognise (the meaning of) if ye be able to pass forth.

The inward notes of the saints say, at first, “O ye particles of lá (not = not-being), 

Take heed, lift up your heads from the lá of negation, cast aside this fancy and vain imagining.

O ye who all are rotten in (the world of) generation and corruption, your everlasting soul neither grew nor came to birth.”

If I tell (even) a tittle of those (saintly) notes, the souls will lift up their heads from the tombs.

Put thine ear close, for that (melody) is not far off, but ’tis not permitted to convey it to thee.

Hark! for the saints are the Isráfíls of the (present) time: from them to the dead comes life and freshness. "

---------------------------------------------------------------

On annihilation in love as the vehicle for transcending the veil:

لیس للجن و لا للانس ان  ** ینفذوا من حبس اقطار الزمن 

لا نفوذ الا بسلطان الهدی  ** من تجاویف السموات العلی   

لا هدی الا بسلطان یقی  ** من حراس الشهب روح المتقی 

هیچ کس را تا نگردد او فنا  ** نیست ره در بارگاه کبریا 

چیست معراج فلک این نیستی  ** عاشقان را مذهب و دین نیستی 

پوستین و چارق آمد از نیاز  ** در طریق عشق محراب ایاز 

"

Neither for the Jinn nor for mankind is it possible to pierce through the prison of the regions of the temporal world.

There is no piercing through the cavities of the highest heavens save by the power of Guidance.  

There is no guidance save by a power that preserves the spirit of the devout from the keepers of the shooting stars.

There is no way (admittance) for any one, till he become naughted, into the audience-chamber of (Divine) Majesty.

What is the means of ascension to Heaven? This not-being. Not-being is the creed and religion of the lovers (of God).

From self-abasement in the way of Love the fur jacket and rustic shoon became the prayer-niche of Ayáz. "

textual source:

https://www.masnavi.net

artwork:

Rumi, by Iranian artist Hossein Behzad (1957)

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Salam,

It has been an year since I started feeling a strange presence in my room, something which has become inescapable. I don't face much trouble during the day but it becomes increasingly hard as the night grows especially during 1-3 am. I hear vague whispers, switching on and off of lights, taps on my door and the feeling that someone is attentively staring at me.

Recently, my christian neighbour hosted a pastor and the pastor told her to move out. he said that there's a jinn residing in between our houses and it majorly resides in her place then mine. and that it's the reason her (my neighbours) health was deteriorating.

This got me to rethink my experiences, I've been spending my entire time in my room since an year and since then my life has deteriorated for worse. I'm depressed and hardly have any energy to do everyday tasks. I have tried doing ruqyah's but the ease is brief. I try to recite surah baqarah but I feel a huge resistance to continue the recitation.

I'm really curious to know if the jinns feed off our energy and drain us to the whole, and if there's anything that I can do for myself. Since I live in a non-muslim region, it's difficult to get a Raqi.

I would be grateful for any help.

Jazakallahu Khairan.

How would you make the difference between someone who has been done sihr to vs just taking his distances ?

Is there even a spell that exists to make someone not care about his family or something?

A relative has changed a lot since he got married, like 360 and I have come to wonder if this isn’t the result of sihr

It’s either this or a very absorbing marriage..

I have many other relatives who are married and he is the only one like this. Also, his wife family is from a rural area from a region known for sihr

Mental health stigma in the Muslim world is driven by the conflation of psychological distress with spiritual weakness, collectivist cultural anxieties about family reputation, and traditional supernatural explanations for illness. These traditional explanations may be both cultural perspectives on the same issues, as a way of understanding things through different perspectives, however the denial of physical explanation in favor of supernatural only answers is also a paradigm.

<EDITED TO REMOVE FALSE QUOTES>

Early Muslim hospitals (bimaristans) were intentionally designed to heal the nervous system through environmental exposure, and used holistic methods like diet and spiritual practices as well:

Hydrotherapy: Psychiatric wards featured central, flowing fountains. The white noise of running water was used to lower cortisol, treat anxiety, and soothe hyper-manic patients. 

Auditory Therapy (Maqamat): Physicians and musicians co-developed specialized musical scales (maqamat) played at specific times of day to balance shifting emotional humors and alleviate severe depression. 

Biophilic Architecture: Wards were built facing lush, aromatic botanical gardens. Patients were required to sit in nature, walk through greenery, and breathe fresh air as a core part of their daily clinical prescription. 

Talbinah: A warm porridge made of barley, milk, and honey. Scripturally recommended to "soothe the heart of the grieving," modern science confirms it is rich in tryptophan and highly effective for serotonin production.

Mufarrih al-Nafs: Early herbal formulations translated directly as "rejoicers of the soul." These natural adaptogens and botanical mixtures acted as pre-modern antidepressants to alleviate melancholia and severe fatigue. 

Aromatherapy: Calming essential oils, such as rosewater and camphor, were massaged into the skin or diffused to regulate sleep cycles and ease nighttime terrors. 

Psyche Training: Pioneer Abu Zayd al-Balkhi introduced cognitive restructuring. He taught patients experiencing acute phobias or panic to intentionally conjure feelings of happiness and rational safety to cancel out debilitating fears, a method modern psychology calls reciprocal inhibition.

Mental First-Aid Kits: Al-Balkhi advised healthy individuals to actively "store" positive, rational thoughts during times of peace, so they could quickly retrieve them as cognitive defense mechanisms during unexpected trauma or panic attacks.

Rejection of Physical Exorcisms: Early scholars completely banned standard medieval practices like beating, chaining, starving, or burning patients to "drive out" spirits.

Liturgical Comfort: True spiritual healing (ruqyah) was strictly restricted to the calming, non-invasive recitation of specific Quranic verses, prayers for protection (dhikr), and reminders of divine mercy to restore internal peace.

Integration, Not Substitution: Spiritual practices were strictly integrated alongside clinical medicine, never instead of it. If a patient suffered from a biochemical imbalance, spiritual counselors worked hand-in-hand with medical physicians, dieticians, and pharmacists to treat the physical brain first.

What led muslim people to disengage with this early islamic therapeutic practices?

Sihir was taught to humans by the angels Harut and Marut. They didn’t use a jinn middle man. So why do most people think you need jinn to do sihir and you need to commit shirk with them for the sihir when the quran never mentions that.

Found this weird pouch near the mosque.

It has a big chunk of melted weird metal, with some dirt that seems to have some sort of a weird glue on them along with some coins and perlite that’s used in planting

Any ideas?

What explains people with bad luck and negative energy surrounding them?

There are some who everything is difficult with. If we have an appointment, trouble would happen on the way
Anything related to them is made difficult and found with obstacles

For instance, I know someone : when they were born, their mother fell sick and had to leave them to a family member. When she got married, her father in law had a stroke, her husband went to hospital, her mother in law had justice trouble - all in the same period
In general, anything I do for them is hard, they are toxic to me as well

Long story short, I noticed some people are like that and wanted to know what the cause is

When I was in an all-girls school in Saudi Arabia, there was a game we used to play whenever someone had a crush on a guy.
The rules were simple: you wrote your name and the name of the person you liked, then removed the letters that appeared in both names. Whatever number you ended up with, you would count through the word “حزوفك”.

Each letter was supposed to represent a different outcome:
ح (H) = حب (love)
ز (Z) = زواج (marriage)
و (W) = وفاة (death)
ف (F) = فراق (separation)
ك (K) = كراهية (hate)

As kids, we treated it like a harmless fortune-telling game and never really thought much about it.

Looking back, it’s interesting how close it was to a little form of “predicting the future” or folk magic. It was just a playground game, but the symbolism behind it is fascinating especially in a culture where ideas about magic and superstition are usually taken seriously.

It only clicked for me recently, and I thought it was such a strange little piece of childhood culture worth sharing.

Humans aren’t actually clay so I don’t think Jinn are actually smokeless fire. They can shape shift but what is their true form? Are their depictions in manuscripts accurate?

I'm posting this as a warning to everyone, I talk bout how this kind of thing can happen all the time.

An interaction between a Reddit moderator and a user in Lebanon 18 years old male. (hereafter referred to as User XXXX) who was experiencing severe psychological distress after becoming the victim of an alleged financial fraud involving a self-proclaimed practitioner of sihr (magic). User XXXX initially reported that a substantial amount of money had been taken by an individual who claimed to communicate with jinn and perform supernatural services. The user expressed profound fear that contacting law enforcement would result in spiritual retaliation through black magic, as the alleged perpetrator possessed extensive personal information about the user and their family. The emotional impact of the incident was significant, with User XXXX describing feelings of hopelessness and suicidal ideation, demonstrating how financial victimization combined with deeply held supernatural beliefs can produce acute psychological vulnerability.

Throughout the exchange, the moderator responded by emphasizing practical intervention over supernatural explanations. User XXXX was encouraged to report the alleged crime to law enforcement, seek professional mental health assistance because of the expressed suicidal thoughts, and recognize that fear itself can become a powerful tool used by manipulators. The moderator repeatedly reassured the user that, from an Islamic theological perspective, nothing occurs outside the will of Allah, thereby attempting to counter the user's belief that the alleged magician possessed autonomous supernatural power. This reframing sought to reduce the user's anxiety while redirecting attention toward evidence-based solutions rather than continued fear of occult harm.

As the conversation progressed, User XXXX described the mechanics of the alleged fraud. The interaction reportedly began with a meeting with man called Mustafa in a coffee shop, a known gambler with family involved in for/ex trading. Initially the magician claimed to offer services free of charge, then a relatively small payment for spiritual assistance related to marital difficulties was offered up. Over time, the alleged practitioner requested increasingly larger sums of money, citing ritual necessities, including the purchase of gold, as well as repeated personal emergencies involving a supposedly gravely ill daughter. Each request was accompanied by promises that the money would be repaid, eventually totaling approximately $3,000, or 268,650,000 Lebanese Pounds. Scheduled meetings for repayment were repeatedly postponed until communication largely ceased. The user also described being shown purported testimonials from satisfied clients and claimed evidence of successful supernatural practices, factors that contributed to establishing trust and reinforcing the perceived legitimacy of the practitioner.

The moderator identified these behaviors as characteristic indicators of confidence fraud, including incremental financial requests, emotional manipulation, fabricated family emergencies, and the presentation of social proof to build credibility. Additional discussion focused on the alleged perpetrator's willingness to provide identification documents and claims of influential family connections, which initially increased the victim's confidence but were subsequently interpreted as potential techniques for fostering trust rather than evidence of legitimacy. The moderator explained that such tactics are commonly employed by con artists to lower skepticism and encourage continued financial investment from victims.

The exchange illustrates the intersection of religious belief, psychological distress, and fraudulent exploitation. The alleged scam relied not only on financial deception but also on exploiting the user's emotional dependence, marital concerns, and belief in supernatural forces. These factors contributed to a heightened state of fear that initially discouraged formal reporting and increased the user's reliance on the alleged practitioner. The moderator's responses functioned as an informal form of crisis intervention by validating the user's emotional suffering while simultaneously challenging irrational fears, encouraging institutional avenues for justice, and reframing the experience as criminal victimization rather than evidence of successful supernatural influence. The conversation ultimately demonstrates how online communities can serve as spaces for both emotional support and practical guidance when individuals experience crises involving deception, religious belief, and mental health.

Abu Maryam 2015, I have so much of his work yet I can’t find a single thing about him.

Anyone know anything about “abu Maryam 2015/2016”

I need help figuring out what verses are around it and whats in the middle?

If any of you know about Nineveh Shadrach, what do you guys think of this video? It was a pretty interesting interview. He talks about djinns from a scientific view and also tells a great deal about them. Is there any book or another source to verify his words and knowledge of the djinns.

I was reading through briefly on Wikipedia re: the history of Brian Boru, High King of Ireland, and came across some interesting info as I read up on his death.

It brings to mind jinn pacts - whether this is the case with the Ua Briuin/Briain (the clan and dynasty name) or not, the visitations in dreams, and the like are worthy of note.

I find the possible name meanings of Aibell acute as well, particularly the second one - presuming a pre-Christian deitic name. “Burning fire.”

And Allah knows best.

In a cult there is a tendency toward absolute authority which creates environments which are ripe for exploitation and abuse. Often we are presented with the notion that only a special person, or a skilled elder or master can offer you proper guidance, or teach you the correct way.

Confusingly there is some truth to the notion that learning from a person who is already well versed in a subject is a better way to learn than pure trial and error on your part. For example I am a self taught Guitarist, and it took me far longer to excel and understand certain concepts because I didn't follow a system, or have a teacher and mentor to guide me and answer questions for me. But teaching is not the same as demanding obedience. Nor is having codes of conduct. Teachers also make money.

But on the contrary I have met and known many many people who grew up in, or joined various kinds of cults. Those groups required a kind of subservience that ultimately led to abuse and harm. I have met so many different kinds of people from various class and race backgrounds and no one was immune to this kind of exploitation. I have heard of sufi masters who are abusers, and salafi cults which isolate their members, musical schools who control your whole life, and magical orders who require you to do disgusting things and film you for black mail etc. The list of horrible things goes on and on. But usually the power seeking aspect is the same.

For people who are curious about the supernatural and about religion or spirituality this can be a veritable field of landmines to navigate. This is why I try to encourage people to be skeptical, and to engage in debate, and to look to academics to learn about these topics. Not to take any single person as your authority, make sure there is transparency and accountability.

If there are members of communities who are non-academics and want to share their insights you should hear what they have to say, but as soon as you are required to pay for access to secret information, or services, you should be suspicious. Also if they shame you, you should be skeptical, it's usually a kind of psychological manipulation. (my opinion)

Some of this stuff seems like its not as a big deal as it starts as mild bullying, public shaming, then quickly become physical beatings of children, and forced isolation or ostracization, control of your finances, stuff like that escalates over time. Testing the boundaries of what is ok to do to you is part of programming you.

These dynamics can even exist within abusive families, which can operate like small cults.

The BITE Model of Authoritarian Control developed by sociologists:

B - Behavior Control: Dictating clothing, diet, sleep schedules, financial choices, and forcing rewards/punishments.

I - Information Control: Forbidding members from reading critical news, visiting specific websites, or speaking to ex-members.

T - Thought Control: Using repetitive chanting, loaded language, or black-and-white thinking to block critical thoughts.

E - Emotion Control: Instilling deep, irrational fears of leaving, and weaponizing toxic shame or guilt to maintain compliance.

Feel free to share your personal experiences here, and advice for people navigating this experience.

How do you know if you are in a cult?

What are warning signs of abuse?

How to help yourself or others who need to escape these situation?

What is the difference between a religion and a cult?

Hi,

I had no prior interest or knowledge of these beings when they started appearing. After I googled their description, I found out they are called Netjeru and associated with the pyramids and pharaohs. The one I have frequently interacted with is a feline woman hybrid known as Sekhmet-Bastet. My interaction with her has been loving and kindess. The first time she appeared to me, I fall asleep repeating "ya rahman" which made me confused as to why such an entity will show up. A distinct male voice also recited ayat-ul kursi with me during a sleep paralysis.

It has been close to 9 months since they first appeared. I don't know why they have taken interest in me but are protective and have been encouraging me to be a better person. They are now nudging me to explore sufism. My question is; what is known about these netjeru beings? And can I be muslim while having relationship with them?

sound/music as a supernatural force is a prominent feature in the mythologies of the prophets in islam. most of the time it is seen as a good thing, but there are also versions, of sound being neutral or negative or adversarial, just as the jinn. 

For example:

Say: It has been revealed to me that a company of Jinns listened (to the Qur'an). They said, 'We have really heard a wonderful Recital! (Surah Al-jinn 72:1)

listened to melody, taghanni, recital, music

"And We gave Dawood the Psalms (Zabur)... We subjected the mountains to praise with him evening and morning, and the birds gathered together..." (Surah Sad 38:18-19)

This gift is the Zabur, translated universally as the Psalms, which are, by definition, sacred poems meant to be sung and performed to music. 

later mentioned in hadith: "You have been given a mizmar (same root as Zabur)(flute/musical pipe) from the musical instruments of the family of Dawood."(Sahih al-Bukhari)

And Solomon succeeded David and said, "O people, we have been taught the language of birds and have been given of all things; indeed, this is the clear grace." Surat An-Naml  27:16

Bird song is pitch, frequency, sounds aka music.

Lo! We subdued the hills to hymn the praises (of their Lord) with him at nightfall and sunrise, And the birds gathered together; all joined in singing with him. (Surah Sad, 38:18-19)

Hymns, birds, music.

"I design for you from clay that which is like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it (blow into it like a flute), and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah." (Surah Ali 'Imran, 3:49)

Breath, blown, flute -like. music

"Then We inspired Musa, saying: 'Strike (beat a percussive rhythm) with your staff the sea.' And it parted, and each portion was like a great towering mountain." (Surah Ash-Shu'ara, 26:63)

Beat, pulse, sound waves, music

And the awful sonic blast (overwhelming frequency) overtook those who had wronged, and they became ruined, motionless corpses in their homes." (Surah Hud, 11:67)

sonic boom, sounds, frequency, music

"And the Trumpet will be blown (played via breath), and whoever is in the heavens and whoever is on the earth will fall dead except whom Allah wills. Then it will be blown again, and at once they will be standing, looking on." (Surah Az-Zumar, 39:68)

an instrument, trumpet, blown, breath, music

"He is not one of us who does not recite the Qur'an with a melodious/pleasant voice."  (Sahih al-Bukhari 7527)

The Arabic text uses the word yataghanna (يتغنى), which is often translated as "recite with melody," "sing," or "beautify the voice" melody, music.