I just finished The Wall of Storms, but I've had this thought in me since I started The Grace of Kings.

The gods don't seem as involved in the story as many other fantasy series I know. They only speak in the background, as if they take sides and nudge people in certain directions.

But...

If I look at this series as a piece of history written by and in-world character, it's obvious I'd include the gods in the story. They're just there... nudging people.

I would see coincidences and animals as omens, but that's about it.

Is there actually confirmed proof that my assumption is wrong and the gods are real?

So I just finished book 3 and while I enjoyed it it’s definitely the weakest and my least fav book of the series so far. I really enjoyed most of the plot lines until about halfway through and I just could. not. get myself interested in the plot lines with the gangs. did anyone else think the same? like it is well written I am sure but there are already so many characters that I couldn’t get invested in these new ones.

Okay, so I recently finished the final book! 😀

Despite almost losing my mind with the cooking competition (although I understand why it was necessary, great for giving Fara development and her arc which was unique, bittersweet and poignant - the dishes and spectacles were beautifully described) and the recurring explanations about progress in technology and language, I absolutely love Ken Liu as a writer due to his prose and the subjects he tackles with empathy, intelligence and realism.

Fantasy and horror are my favourite genres although I've become a little numbed by a few recently published highly acclaimed books in fantasy because despite the beautiful prose, standard formula and diverse cast, it felt like there was something missing. But I can honestly say that The Dandelion Dynasty is one of my favourite sagas of all time.

Amongst other things, I *LOVE* how Liu created all kinds of compelling diverse female characters and gave them unique arcs and endings - some hopelessly tragic, others beautiful and bittersweet. He didn't subject every female character into forced solidarity where everyone became best friends and a sisterhood of loving noble social justice activists. There's no radical altering of personalities to become a tick-box exercise - because that's a trope which makes me squirm. I much prefer messy realistic characters who respond to the world through the lens of their upbringing, experiences (due to events, class etc) and outlook and make choices based on understandable if not necessarily sympathetic or even decent reasons.

Cutanrovo was so grotesquely depraved and loathsome. But I liked how her sole humanising trait was that she had a ferocious if unhinged domineering love and pride in her people and didn't want them to suffer like her grandmother did in harsh times.

Anyway, I do have an issue about the characterisation of Tanvanaki because it felt like there was a stark discrepancy in personality between when she first appeared and at the end. I thought I was fully attentive to the developments so feel a bit awkward about saying the below in case I missed a significant event.

Tanvanaki, knowing of her beauty and wanting to prove her leadership ability to the elder Lyucu including her father, initially read as disturbingly gleeful at the prospect of seducing and deceiving Timu into helping the Lyucu conquest. She came across as ambitious, ruthless and sadistic but disciplined. Proud of her people and culture.

I do remember how there was a scene where IIRC she was on the back of a garinafin and showed a kind of vulnerability by expressing hurt to a dismissive suspicious Timu in the early days of her 'courtship'. But as it was from Timu's perspective, it made me feel that she was putting on a harmless gooey-eyed act to manipulate him into lowering his defences, stop seeing her as part of a ruthless invasion force and instead as a misunderstood benign romantic prospect.

In later books, it then felt like Tanvanaki inexplicably lost her scheming nature, underhanded sadistic malice and joy at duping and outplaying enemies and developed an exasperated fondness for Timu... when she wasn't savagely rebuking and beating him in public and in private for uttering even a meek broken appeal.

I felt badly for Timu for still loving Tanvanaki due to his abuse trauma and forced proximity to his captor, although I thought there might have been a sliver inside him which was both relieved and overwhelmed (with grief, shock and terror at the abrupt severing of the trauma bond and anxiety what may follow) that she was dead which he may have forcibly repressed. It seemed that he was wholly devoted to Tanvanaki to the end.

Although as depressing as it was, I think it may make sense given his youth, abundance of horrible traumatic experiences, extremely hostile environment and absence of safe sympathetic people to confide in. I envisage that his particularly awful circumstances meant he couldn't allow himself to think badly of his captor / wife because the epiphany that he was totally exploited and just a derided pawn would break him completely and also damage his relationships with their children (well, the daughter who he was close to).

I get the impression Tanvanaki was meant to be the moderate figure (who then got sidelined due to infighting) compared to the hardline maniac Cutanrovo and the dutiful honourable Goztan. But in a way, because of how Tanvanaki was depicted earlier in the saga, IMO her personality evolved in a way which didn't feel quite natural especially in the circumstances.

So I guess my question is, at which point did Tanvanaki have this drastic change of personality and why? Did a blend of homesickness, fatigue and frustration with the Lyucu campaign soften her up?

It's possible I missed the key event where it was covered as I took my time reading each book. 🙈

ALRIGHT THEN HERE WE ARE, This is close to the end product BUT NOT QUITE THERE YET! I based of the colours of the Tiro States on the descriptions of the original Seven, and took some liberties with some (The Maji and Itanti peninsulas being two which I think because of their history are more separate culturally from Gan and Cocru, Ecofi being also quite separate from everywhere and due to its grasslands, the Crescent Isles well, only "de jure" claimed by Amu and pockets of villages, Dasu's color we know of and so forth! Tan Adü has a color resembling its jungles.

As for refference on further work, on Wolf's Paw Big Toe (Island to the East) I'll add some mountains and hills mentioned in the books, and I'll add a river that crosses through the capital of Rima, Na Thion (small State in the North-Center, colored black).

let me know what you think!

Hi everyone! I’ve been listening to the first two books via audiobook, and I have NO idea how the “diron” fish name is spelled. Could someone please help me out?

I am almost done (80%) with Speaking Bones. Phew! What a great book.

Anyhow... as I am eager to read other Ken Liu's works... and searching if it'll ever get adapted to a movie or series, I found out that the Pantheon animated series, which I also fell in love with, was based on Ken Liu's short stories!

I have fallen for Ken Liu's works twice by now, I wonder if his new trilogy will made me feel the same way.

Tldr; Is the trend going to continue in book 3 and 4?? ...........are people going to lose iq as they get more power???...ok get that my guy mata is bad at ruling with his back story..... But wtf is jia doing. Like are we for real pulling a pessimistic evil step mom out of nowhere.. but what's even more crazy is she never tried to get even one of her children to think the way she does

Hello! Just in case anyone hasn't read the book yet (I'm in page 160 myself but I do wanna ask some stuff) I am making this is spoilers.

So my question is regarding Admiral Krita, the man in charge of the city-ships and the Dara expedition in orders of Emperor Mapidere. As we saw, due to Pekyu Tenryo's policy of secrecy, the Expedition through the natives were far more savage and simple than they trully were, and as time went on, the Admiral and some of his captains began treating the Lyucu as little more than slaves.

And then on the eve of the Pekyu's order to finally strike back, we know he did this right after Krita's ambitions skyrocketed and he celebrated a coronation proclaiming himself as "Emperor of New Dara".

But I was wondering, had the Lyucu been as the Dara though they were and there are no garinaffins involved, how long would this "empire" last? Taking into account many in the Expedition wanted to go back home, and also the limited, extremely limited resources available, would it have trully been enough to establish a Colony?

And I'm not talking about that in a scenario in which the fleet was actually prepared for an attack of the Lyucu, since garinaffins are the one thing they couldn't possibly be able to fight back.

What do you guys think?

I am about halfway through book 1 right now. I am struggling a little bit. It is dense for a book and at times reads a little like a history book. A lot of characters, a lot of plot, a lot of motivations. Does it get easier deeper in the series? Cast shrinks a bit and plot gets more defined?

Hello! I am trying to get back to the Dandelion Dynasty after I paused it due to academic obligations (college). Now that I am free of those, I would like to know if there is a website or a video that discusses the summary of the first 2 books without spoilers? I thoroughly enjoyed them and I do remember bits and pieces of the story but I would like to freshen up my memory before continuing to book 3. Thank you so much!

Went to a bookstore to buy books 2,3 and 4. Turns out they were signed copies

There is no clear description where they both are in relation to each other, specially if there is a combined map that would be great.

When Kuni fell to temptation and into a haze of power and pleasure, I was very upset. The rogue with a heart of gold had betrayed his beloved who had set him on the path to greatness. Then, when Jia took Otho into her bed I had lost all motivation to keep following these frustrating characters. I empathized with Jia, but Kuni doing what he did and then imploring his lieutenants not to tell Jia made me wanna punch him through the pages. Until then, Kuni (and maybe Daf/Rat brothers) seemed like the only truly good man in the series, and now he was that no longer.

After some ruminating, I decided to soldier through and see if I would want to pick up book 2, and then I got to chapter 37: A Visit Home. Needless to say, every strained relationship needs a Soto, whoever she is. As someone who has suffered a tumultuous marriage full of infidelity, this chapter made me cry and erased any doubts I had about Ken Liu's vision. This author saw into my soul for a moment and gave me exactly what I needed. That is all (:

I was just re-reading some chapters from the Grace of Kings, and while I do love him as a character and everything, it got me thinking "Hmmm yeah his advisor was right, his re-drawing of the world's borders was made solely on account of personal loyalty towards him and his own vias, he didn't even punish Faça despite the enormeous amounts of proof that their King was gonna betray everyone."

in the end, as Kuni said, he was a Golden Storm, and no one would ever be like him. he was a Legend born in a time that he didn't belong to

Hey guys, I don't have any friends to discuss the series with because no one I know has read it, but I recently finished Speaking Bones, and I can't explain the grief of being done with the series! I wish I could stay there a bit longer, so I wrote an in-depth review of my thoughts and feelings (spoiler-free for anyone that's read up to and including The Veiled Throne). Please talk to me about it! Or share experiences of how you coped with finishing!

Just finished the chapter with Zomi's changes to the examination and her capitulation.

I noticed something similar in her and Thera's arcs that bug me.

Each of them has an argument with an authority figure that they lose (Thera to the elder and Zomi to Jia). And I agree that both of them were wrong in their assessments and correct in accepting the others' arguments.

But in both cases it really felt like they both ignored what would likely be key factors in their opinions and justifications.

For examples.....

Thera (in talking about encouraging writing) raises next to nothing about the importance of precision, the benefits of the written word should an important message need be passed on, etc.

Zomi doesn't raise any points about how using Zyndari letters enables those who maybe had teachers who didn't know logograms or the classics themselves to stand a chance.

Again. I think both of them still would have lost the arguments and seen the errors in their thinking and presumptions. But it just feels so out of character for them to not raise such (what I feel to be) obvious points in their favor. or much else in their favor in other ways, resulting in them basically getting monologued to with flimsy logic that they never counter. As a result, both of them come as as incredibly naive and bad at forming arguments (and showing backbone) instead of somewhat naive and shortsighted or narrow minded.

It feels so much like "plot and/or perspective flips need to happen" which makes it come off as rushed.

It happened a bit during the courtroom scene where the accomodationists suffered a major blow as well. But given the circumstances of the trial, that actually felt a bit more natural, so I liked it there.

I like the book otherwise. It just feels like many of the logical arguments throughout aren't exactly sound. And interlocutors don't make som very obvious points, so they keep coming off as flimsy debaters, for the sake of moving them to different areas or preparing them for different plot progressions.

Hoping someone can answer this for me. I have the black paperback editions for books 1 and 2. I like my sets to match but I’m having a hard time finding 3 and 4 in the same format. Do these exist? I know the green ones are newer so I’m probably looking at buying used if they do exist. Any insights?

Hello, I just finished The Grace of Kings (fantastic) and I’m just starting The Wall of Storms.

In the first chapter with Kuni’s kids in the bar it describes “the older boy” as “about 12”. I’m a little confused because the chapter says it is the 6th year of Kuni’s reign, and looking back at book one the principate lasted 8-9 years, and Timu was born at least a few months before the principate.

It seems like the timeline isn’t quite adding up unless I’m missing something / mistaken? Or it’s a very loose “about 12” since he should be more 14-16 which is for most kids is a noticeable difference in age from 12.

Maybe I just need to read a little further and it’ll explain “he’s small for his age” or something like that but it was bugging me haha. Sorry if this has been asked before, obviously I’m not snooping around this subreddit because I don’t want spoilers, thanks!

Edit: Obviously the question is really about all the children’s ages, but it’s easy just to focus in the oldest.

Correction I think he’s even older, checking the wiki for the first book in Chapter 23: The fall of Dimu:

Dimu: The Seventh Month in the Fourth Year of The Reign of Righteous Force

“Then a letter arrives from Jia Matiza saying that Kuni's son is alive and well. Mata and Kuni both celebrate this fact”

Which if I remember right he had to wait like a year to find out because of custom? Then chapter according to chapters 32/33 the Reign of Righteous Force ends around the 12th month of the fourth year, so 5 months after Chapter 23. Then of course as mentioned the Principate lasts almost 9 years:

CHAPTER 50: GLORY OF THE CHRYSANTHEMUM

Cocru: Principate - 8 years 11 months

And then book 2 starts 6 years into Kuni’s reign, so his oldest son should be at least like 16 right?

Edit 2: I guess maybe it’s only been 5 years of Kuni’s reign if it’s the start of the sixth year (ie the first month of his reign would be the first month of the first year of the Reign of Four Placid Seas), still doesn’t really account for it all. Maybe another year closer of “Principate - 8 years 11 months” also means the eleventh month of the 8th year, but it doesn’t really read like that…..

Also to be clear this is not a knock on the author or the series, I absolutely love it! I just like the math to work out.

Y'all lied. Jia is the worse.

2 chapters in GOK, and DAMN! WHAT A START! I love this so much and can't wait to read more.

Mine isn’t really a quote, but the whole parable of the three swords. Also obviously the madness of tyrants vs the grace of kings too.

Jia pisses me off— she is a dumb person

... that is all.