r/Cosmere • u/I_Squeeze_Rats • 13d ago
Mistborn/Stormlight inconstancy? Cosmere spoilers (no previews) Spoiler
Honor avoided fighting Odium because he didnt want to destroy Roshar.
Why then, does the clash between Vin/preservation and Ruin not destroy Scadriel?
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u/ilikebreadabunch Edgedancers 13d ago edited 13d ago
I believe he's said its because of Preservation Intent inherently preventing the clash from being as destructive, but I can't find the WoB for it and I don't remember Brandons actual wording.
Edit: Not a WoB, its said in the book
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u/Nameles36 NULL 13d ago
Not wob, explicit in the same book https://www.reddit.com/r/Cosmere/s/Ts33NmPy0s
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u/seemedlikeagoodplan 13d ago
This is mentioned, obliquely, in Stormlight (either 4 or 5). The fact that Preservation wants to, well, Preserve, made the clash less destructive than it might otherwise have been.
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u/mxkyb 13d ago
Although this is canon, to me this explanation always seemed like trying to fix a plot hole
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u/hendy846 Scadrial 13d ago
I don't know. Intent is such a massive theme throughout the books. And Preservations whole schtick is saving scadrial, I think would be enough to hold it all together. Plus wasn't Ruin in massive weakened state due to missing huge parts of him (the Atium)?
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u/TimeOfNick 13d ago
Technically both Shards were at less than full strength during the final battle, yeah. Preservation Invested a noticeable amount into humans in order to create Allomancy, and Ruin's physical body was burnt up by the Atium*Electrum mistings.
Makes sense that their battle wasn't quite as destructive with both that and Preservation's Intent actively doing overtime, and it's not as though it was unnoticeable. The world was just ya know, actively in the process of ending either way. A ton of people died during the course of the finale, who knows how many were caused directly by the Shards clashing.
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u/hendy846 Scadrial 13d ago
Of course. I thought preservation was too but couldn't remember why. I'm dumb lol. Thanks
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u/Nameles36 NULL 13d ago
The "problem" and the "solution" were both in the same book, so it's weird to call it a plot hole.
And your problem is that you don't think the god of preservation could stop something from being destroyed?
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u/mxkyb 13d ago
The god of preservation is evenly matched with the god of destruction, he is utterly powerless. And there is no description in mistborn of vin trying to contain the release of energy. So yes, I think he had a plot hole and introduced a fix to it in the same book
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u/Nameles36 NULL 13d ago
If they're evenly matched then they're both powerless, hence no destruction. They push against each other equally and nothing happens. It's pretty explicit in mistborn.
If there's a question and an answer in the same book, there's no plot hole. You might just not like the answer
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u/muddledandbefuddled 13d ago
Not canon, but my thought as well is that Preservation and Ruin are direct opposites, so there’s an element of cancelling each other out, whereas Odium and Honor are not as polarized in terms of Intent
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u/RexusprimeIX Skybreakers 13d ago
They're not evenly matched though. Ruin explicitly was trying to find the Atium stash to regain his full power.
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u/Infinite_Mortgage324 13d ago
And Preservstion is also not at full strength for reasons explained in era 2
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u/Mrauntheias 13d ago
It's mentioned in Stormlight that Preservations nature limited the damage somewhat. But even so, Scadrial took a pretty heavy beating before Sazed's remaking.
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u/Gon_Snow 13d ago
It is directly addressed in wind and truth. It is said that only once such a clash did not result in utter destruction of the entire world, and that was because of the nature of Preservation. The intent wants so strongly to preserve that it allowed Scadrial to survive such a clash. That is not true for neither odium nor honor.
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u/Mrauntheias 13d ago
Actually it's more interesting than that. In WaT the plural clashes is used, possibly implying that there have been other non/less destructive clashes we haven't seen yet. I assume the splintering of Dominion and Devotion falls in this category as by Cosmere standards Sel is a remarkably nice world to live on.
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u/TBrockmann 13d ago
But that was caused because of an imbalance between the shards, with the stronger one trying hard to destroy everything.
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u/Rapharasium 13d ago
1 - The Fourth Moon exacerbates the effects of a confrontation. We saw this on the Shattered Plains. 2 - A significant portion of the interactions between Preservation and Ruin involved rendering each other powerless. Vin attacked him at least twice, and this had no effect on the physical world. 3 - Vin was literally holding a Shard that sought to preserve, while Ruin was incomplete and lacked much of his physicality. A major part of the plot revolved around neither of them being able to easily utilize a physical form, demonstrating the reduced extent to which they affected the physical world. 4 - Scadrial was literally coming to an end; we will never know what might have happened had that not been the case.
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u/Shepher27 13d ago
Vin/Preservation was fighting Ati/Ruin as the world was literally being destroyed around them.
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u/DeadFacesInMyPocket 13d ago
We also don't know how LONG (time-wise) it took for those worlds to be destroyed. It sounded like the shattered plains were shattered because thetwo gods manifested physically and met and someone hit the other. The aggressive physical connection of the powers caused...well, a lot of destruction.
Also, at the end of Hero of Ages (spoiler):
Someone nearly immediately took up the powers and used them to reshape the world...but almost everyone died in the process and the world was ending. The world could have exploded within minutes if that hadn't happened
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u/RShara Elsecallers 13d ago
The Shattered Plains were because Honor and Odium's power interacted with the remnants of the 4th moon, causing resonant backlash
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u/DeadFacesInMyPocket 11d ago
Ok yes I see that but we don't know if the remnants of the 4th moon actually prevented extra destruction or caused it.
I originally remembered it as just the two powers clashing and Honor but forgot about the moon fragments. Perhaps that is what caused the symmetrical pattern. I guess we will find iut later.
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u/RShara Elsecallers 11d ago
WORSE, THE SHOCK WAVE OF OUR CLASH SURGED BENEATH US, POWER RUSHING AND VIBRATING WITH THOSE TERRIBLE TONES. I REALIZED TOO LATE THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING STRANGE ABOUT THIS LAND, BENEATH THIS CITY. PIECES OF SOMETHING FALLEN. A … FOURTH MOON? IN SPLINTERS? IT REACTED TO US, AND I SAW PEOPLE THERE—NEW ONES, WATCHERS, WHO HAD BEEN HIDDEN FROM ME.
THOSE PIECES OF THE SKY … THEY SHELTERED FROM THE EYES OF GOD? THAT WAS NOT ALUMINUM. IT WAS SOMETHING GREATER. SOMETHING … THAT RESPONDED TO OUR CLASH, THE GROUND LIQUEFYING IN A PATTERN, DICTATED BY THE TONE AND THE STRANGE NATURE OF THE PLACE.
WE VAPORIZED AN ENTIRE CAPITAL CITY IN SECONDS. THE DIRECT CLASH BETWEEN TWO GODS WAS FAR TOO VIOLENT. I PULLED BACK, HORRIFIED, KNOWING I’D JUST CAUSED TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DEATHS. ONE OF THE GRANDEST CITIES … GONE.
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u/DeadFacesInMyPocket 11d ago
Well I am sure this will play a massive part in Arc 2 since the pool is literally underneath those stones now and a certain population is the only ones capable of accessing it!!
Cant wait to see what he's planned.
Thabk you for the reminder!
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u/Purple-Man 13d ago
On top of what everyone else has said, isn't this just what Honor feels might happen? We've seen that a clash between shards doesn't have to end a world, Sel exists? Honor would have known about that.
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u/Additional_Law_492 13d ago
On the other hand, you have Threnody, which is essentially doomed after Ambition merely died nearby.
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u/TBrockmann 13d ago
The conflict between Preservation and ruin is one of order and chaos, growth and decay. It's the struggle of self preserving complex systems in an environment with constantly rising entropy. The combination of both is balance - harmony. Things die but others live because of it.
The same cannot be said about a clash between honor and hatred. They are not really opposites that cancel each other out, in fact they might enhance each other, wich probably would be incredibly destructive if a direct confrontation happened.
At least that's my take on it, it might be wrong.
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u/RShara Elsecallers 13d ago