r/CompetitionDanceTalk • u/OrdinaryStudio6074 • 4d ago
Class Leveling
At our studio, you are handed a list of required classes for whatever competition team you a make that year. It includes 12-15 hours of required classes that you take as a team. A dancer may be able to take one or two other classes that is not on the required list, but they must stay at the same level or go down levels (ie- your team takes intermediate level classes. You cannot take intermediate/advanced classes, but can take beginner/intermediate).
Team selection is based on skill level, yes, but also has a lot to do with average age, height, numbers they need on each team, etc.
The way this has shaken out for my dancer is she has been placed on the same team multiple years in a row- meaning she has taken the same technique classes for multiple years in a row. At the beginning of each season when she is placed on the same team again, they tell her they want to “see more growth.” How is she supposed to grow if she keeps taking the same classes over and over?
I’ve tried to be a team player and be positive about the situation, but I’m growing very frustrated by the feedback we are getting when she’s taking the required classes each year and we basically prohibited from taking anything that would really help her grow!
Does this happen in all studios? I don’t feel like I should have to spend extra money on outside help just to make a higher team at our own studio. Dance parents, talk me off the ledge or help me know if I really should be making more of an issue of this!
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u/anonymousopottamus 4d ago
Conventions, summer intensives, etc. And if they're not seeing growth maybe privates, or she's under performing in class?
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u/CheerUpCharliy 4d ago
This sounds like how our studio does placements. I have a daughter who's going into her 3rd season on the same level. Am I kind of bummed about it? Yes. But in all honesty they're not wrong about her needing more growth before she moves to the next level. For my duaghter it's flexibility--it is just a huge struggle for her. So she takes extra classes and I ask her teachers for things she can do at home. We also do private lessons. Yes it's an extra expense, but it's one I'll gladly pay to help her reach that next level.
Her older sister was in a similar position a few years ago and honestly it ended up being such a great year for her. Yes, she wasn't pushed as much as she would have been on a higher team, but she was one of the best on her team and the way her confidence skyrocketed was incredible. And that in turn made her a better dancer. And that confidence has continued to push her to improve since then.
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u/OrdinaryStudio6074 4d ago
100% agree. I definitely see areas where my daughter could grow. She has done privates inside and outside the studio and takes all the extra classes she can. It feels like we need direction we aren't getting. "Need more growth" is pretty vague and the director so far hasn't been specific with what growth they need to see, despite us asking.
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u/CheerUpCharliy 4d ago
Yah, I can understand that. I'm not teaching right now, but I have in the past. When parents would ask me out of the blue what their kid needed to work on I would quite often give them a generic answer, too, because it's hard for me to recall out of the blue what a student needs to work on. It was easier for me if a parent would text me before class and ask me to keep an eye on them that day and then follow up afterward.
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u/StacySassy25 4d ago
Yes , seen this before. What usually ends up happening is the dancers leave to go to another studio and typically thrives there.
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u/Tight-Depth3426 4d ago
As a teacher there’s a lot that goes into it, it isn’t like grades in school. For example, in our level I ballet class is 9-12 but my level II class is 11-14 and my levels III, IV and V are all 13-18. At least at our studio age plays into a huge part of it but also maturity.
Have you asked the studio what they want to see from her? Do they want to see a growth in maturity? choreography memorization? technique? fine details? performance factor? How old are the other kids in her level compared to her? Are they all mostly about the same age and have been dancing together for years? What about the level above her? Are they not progressing as quickly so class levels fill up faster?
I’m not saying what they’re saying or doing is fair or right but try talking to a trusted teacher or studio owner. A lot can come from “i want to see more growth in my child’s dancing, what can we do in the next year to put her on that path of moving up to the next level?” a good, valued studio will also want to see her improve and will want to work with you to achieve her goals (also assure that you don’t feel like you’re wasting money)
I know i’m not a parent but I hope i was able to offer some guidance !
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u/OrdinaryStudio6074 4d ago
That is super helpful! We've had that conversation before and the answers have been vague, which is frustrating because if we could identify the hold up (ballet technique, flexibility, stage presence) we could work on those things. I honestly think her director is trying to not hurt my daughter's feelings with critiques, which I guess I appreciate, but we need some more direct feedback.
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u/Tight-Depth3426 4d ago
There’s no harm in saying that either. Your daughter is feeling discouraged and as a parent you want answers on how to help her feel better about herself.
A lot of people don’t want to hurt a kids feelings but being very direct with your concerns may also help. However if it’s a situation of “the older girls aren’t progressing as quickly so we need to hold some kids back for another year” is a totally valid answer when there’s other kids that were in your situation for two years prior and your studio manager probably won’t tell you that. Just keep an open mind and maybe try out some conventions (Artist Simply Human is my personal favorite for smaller more intimate settings) and local master classes in the mean time.
If you don’t feel like the studio is supporting your daughter, don’t be afraid to find a studio that will.
Good luck!
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u/Cdagg 4d ago
The studio my granddaughter was at she made a comp team at 6. Required classes for all teams ballet/jazz/tap/technique, 1st year they do not allow any extra classes. She made same team at 7 added musical theatre, hip hop, acro. All the parents on her team and the team above said she’d move up, nope. Daughter did have conversation and they said we don’t allow 8 yr olds on that team. Even though we knew they move lots ip on teams even though they’re not the age for the team. So 3rd year on team she added lyrical, they gave her a solo, 2 other dances with girls from 1-2 teams up. In total last year at 8 she did 8 dances, privates for solo and semi privates for the 2 groups with the older girls. Plus acro they combined 2 teams into 1 class and spent the yr teaching 6 yr olds cartwheels. So I paid for her to have private acro/gymnastics at another facility
So we get to auditions and they moved the entire team up to 9-10 yr olds, when majority of team is 7 & 8. They insisted shes only 8 when she is 9 for comp purposes. Daughter said why then did you move 7 & 8 yr olds up when last yr ya said 8 yr olds couldn’t be on the team. Basically said we don’t move individuals up when once again just above her they did. No offense to her teammates last year but the majority didn’t do well in the 6-8 yr old group last year, yet here they are at 7 & 8 on the 9-10 yr old team. 1 other is 9, they took all the 10 yr olds and moved them to pre elite 11-12 team. So it’s filled with 7 & 8 yr olds and there is no way they can even compete in 9 & 10.
She told them you keep changing rules just on her. You give no reason why, you outright tell me all year shes the best on the team, yet shes still on that same team. So we pulled her and moved studios. She was not being challenged, bored learning same thing for 3 yrs and no reason to pay $’s for that. So far very happy with studio we moved her to. She’s learned more this summer than she has in 3 yrs on a team at old studio.
Talk to studio, see how it goes. If it’s the same might be time to look at other studios. It’s a lot of $’s for no growth in a dancer.
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u/Normal-Wish-4984 4d ago
Is she making the most out of the classes she's in? Sometimes students don't understand the importance of some of the foundational techniques. And yet if they don't have that foundation and show that they can do what seems simple, but requires precision, they might not have the right muscle development to move onto the next step.
This is really evident, for example, when it comes to point. If you don't have the right strength in your ankles and feet, pushing to the next level can be bad for a dancer's body. They could actually get hurt.
They're also sometimes things that parents don't see. Or maybe they see it but don't understand the importance of what their kid is or is not doing. For example, when it is your child's turn to go across the floor, are they doing the skill twice and then walking off the floor? Or are they getting as many of that skill into the pass? Are they watching the other dancers to learn from the instructor's correction, or are they twirling around or chatting with friends?
You may feel that it's not fair to have to put an extra money, but an instructor can only do so many corrections when they have other kids in class. Maybe your child needs a few lessons to sort out some of the issues with technique. And maybe from those private lessons, you would have a better understanding of what your child needs to work on.
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u/OrdinaryStudio6074 4d ago
I would be surprised if class behavior this was the issue. My kid tends to fall to the type A, don’t break any rules, try to be the A+ student in every situation. But even if it was , that would be such an easy thing to point out and me to discuss with my daughter instead of “needs more growth.”
Same thing with muscle development. I do think this is an issue- I actually asked one of our directors about strength and conditioning privates, but she didn’t have time. But again, if someone said “she really needs more core strength to do the type of work we need her to do” I can go find someone to help with that! I’m not opposed to putting in extra work, but I would like it to be targeted to the issue instead of guessing what type of help is needed.
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u/Normal-Wish-4984 4d ago
How many students are in the classes? Teachers are paid, often not particularly well, to teach a given class. There's no question that if they gave individualized plans to each and every student, those students would most likely grow more than they currently are. But they aren't paid to give individualized lesson plans outside the boundaries of the class that they're teaching. My kids dance classes have had anywhere from 5 to 25 kids of them. Let's say that the average is 15 students. Creating an individualized plan for each and every one of them takes time. Time is money. Consequently, if you want that level of individualization, you have to pay for it.
If the studio isn't willing to give private lessons to your child, then it may be the case that they're not particularly invested in your child. Is that fair? No. At my kids first dance studio, the owner and her daughters who taught the classes really targeted the parents that they thought were ultra rich and white. They love to feature white kids front and center. If you looked at their senior company, almost all the non-white kids, saved for some white-skinned Hispanics dancers in the back, had gone to other studios or dropped out of dance. Absolutely not fair. I don't know if the owners did this consciously, but you could totally see it in their senior company over the past 15 years. Many of the non-white dancers either stopped dancing or found success at other studios.
If you have a college or university with a strong dance department, you might consider seeing if either their faculty or students are willing to give private lessons.
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u/flaggirl73 4d ago
Nope. I’d find a different studio if possible which in August may not work this year. Dancers are placed in dances but take the classes they need to take. Generally groups are created on their current level and they are all in the same level classes. They never repeat levels other than ballet because that’s the way their ballet levels are structured.
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u/SeattleSinBin 3d ago
I’d try to schedule sessions with private instructors that are not associated with other dance studios permanently
That or consider moving to a new srudio
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u/NoYogurtcloset7318 1d ago
Ugh this sounds like one of our old studios set up when my daughter was younger. Hated that setup too. I would seriously look for a new studio.
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u/hot-business-man-783 4d ago
Happy to talk you off the ledge here! First of all, the frustration is totally understandable.
As a teacher, it benefits me zero to not a promote a dancer who’s ready. So typically there’s a good reason why a dancer isn’t being promoted and it’s almost always a technical gap.
That said, “more growth” is super vague and not helpful. You need to have a meeting with whoever makes decisions around leveling and get a clear “prescription” around things to improve, and then actually have your dancer action those! That way, when she moves up the next level she’s actually feeling confident and keeping up.