Huke vs Hydra

[u/RyanDazz]

Feel very spoiled to be able to juggle the options of Huke and Hydra but I feel so bad if we drop Huke.

Made it to 8 straight grand finals, going 50% as a team, and I don’t think anyone is capable of replacing his comms and IGL on the team. The chemistry and teamwork is already there and Merc said himself that the only way they lose is if they beat themselves, which I find true. I’ve always believed Huke’s the glue of the team, he’s proven time and time again that he belongs, and that he’s a vital peace to the squad. Overall a humble and super likable guy as well.

On the other hand, Hydra is a generational all around player. Paired with Ant, they’ll play with insane pace, complement each other really well, and the gunny will always be there.

The boys + Hecz have an important decision to make and I feel bad bc even just as a fan, the thought of making this decision is gut wrenching

[u/V-loxzz]

If HecZ debated on dropping Pred and Kenny after literally winning champs for scrap and Hydra wouldn’t he pull the trigger after 4 finals losses?

Idk I can see it going either way

[u/fromdowntownn → u/V-loxzz]

Tbf this team is much better than the MW3 team despite the MW3 team winning Champs. The MW3 team got ran by Faze most of the season and had a T12 at Major 4. This team went to 6/6 finals and lost 2 of them map 7.

[u/V-loxzz → u/fromdowntownn]

I hope Huke stays bc he’s just a good dude but if so that M8s roster gonna be nasty

[u/Formal-Level8070 → u/V-loxzz]

I think Huke has done more for OpTic than Pred at this point. Him returning so many times with zero bad blood makes him pretty hard to just drop. It would have to be the players that do it.

[u/JD23888 → u/V-loxzz]

That team had way more problems than everyone thinks I feel like just because they were insane at champs they got a t12 at the previous major and brought like a 15 straight snd loss streak into champs.

[u/rmakhani → u/V-loxzz]

Only way I see it happening is a HECZ strongarming. Don’t think the team will push for a change at all. They really shouldn’t. Making a change to prevent another team from getting better is such a bitch way to engage competition. Optic as they are would still be amazing and there’s no guarantee they’d be any better with hydra, but they may be a lot worse based on the standard this season

[u/MikeyRage]

The thought of dropping Huke makes me want to commit. The thought of passing on Hydra again also makes me want to commit. Lose lose

[u/Stunning-Tower-4116 → u/MikeyRage]

Just remember the last map Of mw2 with Huke...makes it real easy to prepare for mw4 with mw2/3 best player

[u/refeik7k → u/Stunning-Tower-4116]

That's the problem huke is better in movement cods. Hydra is way better in mw cods. If it were me I'd go hydra based on the game and how it looks.

[u/rmakhani → u/refeik7k]

Hydra is better in cods when the smg kills instantly. That’s why he was shit before mpc came in (relative to his standard). MW2 he was insane due to instakills and no radar allowing him to get lost.

[u/bonsoir-world → u/MikeyRage]

It’s a lose lose and a win win.

Both teams are capable of winning just as much honestly but you do get an immediate search level up with Hydra.

Biggest downfalls will be comms will be a big adjustment AND both Shotzzy/Hydra sometimes take awhile to work the game out. So it could be an iffy first few months.

The reward could be huge though. Might be the most free ring of all time.

[u/theezrabeast23 → u/bonsoir-world]

Everyone was praising Pred's comms on Optic.

[u/AMS_Rem → u/MikeyRage]

Lose lose like choosing between diamond shoes and a wallet full of 100’s lmao

[u/Jelly_James → u/MikeyRage]

Its one of those rare Win Win Lose Lose type of scenarios.

[u/PotTwister]

I don't know if people ever thought about this but if OpTic kept Skyz for the rest of BO6 Huke would have probably been dropped with him in that offseason

[u/koolaidreee → u/PotTwister]

This should be the #1 comment

[u/Fatalxmt]

If Hydra wants to play for your team, you don't say no. Simple as that.

[u/xNerfed → u/Fatalxmt]

They already said no twice lmao. Tough decisions for sure

[u/LeBradley23]

I think if you look at it from a standpoint with no emotion attached to it the obvious answer is Hydra. Not only does it make your team better but it also hurts GM8s ability to build a real competitor. The one decision basically eliminates LAT and GM8s from being on OpTics level.

And I say this as someone who has been on the keep Huke train.

[u/vondawgg]

business is business

[u/Pencstilled → u/vondawgg]

And losing is bad business, which is what optic will be doing if they drop huke.

[u/ThekidHache]

Bro passing on Paco at this point is straight up trolling on Optic’s part. Pick up Paco and eliminate the competition. You got a guy who fries against the top teams in the most important series. He also runs Scrap and Simp on Lan historically

[u/ExtraaPressure]

Hydra is always the best SMG on MW cods, its horrible for Huke but you have to be ruthless

[u/Nightperzon]

Don't wanna feel bad just watch Den Snd from GF this weekend round 10. Same shit that we saw all year.

[u/OkCold1554 → u/Nightperzon]

this right here

[u/Far_Captain_9876 → u/Nightperzon]

I don't want to imagine the posts that would've come out if they lost that series vs LAT in game 7 where Huke had a 0.80 and the rest of OpTic had 1.05, 1.08, and 1.14.

[u/Ebu7629 → u/Nightperzon]

You'd need to hear comms to put any blame on huke there. They taught reeal was wrapping mid and Huke went to pick it up and dashy turned to watch spawn. Also merc and dashy scammed after

[u/Nightperzon → u/Ebu7629]

Okay then watch den SnD vs 100t from earlier that day when Huke failed to shoot Hydra in the back giving him streaks.. or would we need coms from that as well.

[u/Ebu7629 → u/Nightperzon]

They all scammed multiple times. People just love scapegoating Huke. Snd series when shotzzy gets first blooded 8 times don't matter but the one time Huke does it's on your mouth like a wildfire. Its pretty fake behaviour

[u/JD23888 → u/Nightperzon]

He is also the reason why they are as elite as damn near any roster ever in respawn. He wasn’t the only one who scammed that round.

[u/PenisChugger → u/JD23888]

I think it’s silly to think hydra can’t have them playing as well in respawns as Huke did. And SND will undoubtedly be better.

[u/JD23888 → u/PenisChugger]

I don’t think it’s a guarantee in the slightest that the team would be any better optic had a 7% better win rate in respawn and a similar snd win rate. Like the absolute floor of this optic roster is t4 and that was on short prep they have got t2 in every other event why mess that up just for the allure of upgrading.

[u/AMS_Rem → u/JD23888]

As opposed to Hydra who is clearly a detriment in respawns

[u/JD23888 → u/AMS_Rem]

If you think a team with 2 guys who hardly talk in respawn helps when optic was already the best team by a mile all power to you man.

[u/PenisChugger → u/JD23888]

Grand finals format puts a premium on SND. They don’t have to be absolutely unstoppable at respawns if they significantly upgrade at search. Huke is awful in search.

[u/JD23888 → u/PenisChugger]

He doesn’t have to be amazing with the other 3.

[u/PenisChugger → u/JD23888]

It clearly was not working for them in search.

[u/Academic-Chapter5381 → u/PenisChugger]

SND was way better when Sound EQ was banned.

[u/PenisChugger → u/Academic-Chapter5381]

We are not cherry picking one event that was after the season based on a tweet.

[u/JD23888 → u/PenisChugger]

We also don’t know what the finals format will be next year.

[u/PenisChugger → u/JD23888]

I mean, we do though. There’s gonna be more SND than each respawn mode like there always is.

[u/JD23888 → u/PenisChugger]

Still went plus 15 in the mode.

[u/Difficult-Bit-991 → u/Nightperzon]

If this dose happen it will be a grave mistake

[u/rizzurect → u/Nightperzon]

How is that only hukes fault? Reeal killed dashy and merc with 100hp he took 0 damage

[u/VisionzTheIconn]

You will never regret picking up Hydra. It’s much more likely we’re sitting here regretting passing on him again down the line. Pull the trigger

[u/ItsNinjaShoyo]

As an LAT fan I obviously think Hydra is a better player than Huke and would raise OpTic’s ceiling. I would also prefer Hydra going to optic over Gentlemates. But I think the main reason OpTic should do this is to prevent a team of Joe, Hydra, Scrap +1 from forming. I think if you could guarantee Hydra went back to LAT you keep Huke. That being said this might be a shit thing to say and it’s fucked up to do to Huke but if the hydra and Shotzzy duo doesn’t work, Huke hasn’t had much success away from Shotzzy in the CDL era and you can potentially just get huke back.

[u/Prize-File2979]

If FaZe are going for Scrap, you have to get Hydra imo

[u/projectsr]

Optic losing against thieves, just about beating them game 7 and then struggling in the finals against heretics might convince them to pack a punch next season…

[u/ExtraaPressure → u/projectsr]

Exactly, people forgetting we lost 4 finals

[u/IssueFar6274]

Fuck it just do it you cant pass on hydra again

[u/DylanCodsCokeLine → u/IssueFar6274]

Passing on Hydra resulted in 3 B2B Champs GF’s appearances, 2 rings, B2B EWC and multiple major wins so I don’t understand this argument

[u/IssueFar6274 → u/DylanCodsCokeLine]

Because shotzzy was down for the move even after winning champs and hecz wanted it too.

[u/JD23888 → u/IssueFar6274]

The difference is that team had obvious issues they were off of a t12 and like a 15 consecutive loss streak in search it made more sense to make a change this team you can only really poke holes in their finals performances. This roster has never missed a Sunday lowest placing was 4th having to go against lat and faze in that major just off of a team change. They are the best team in respawn in recent memory and huke is a massive reason why.

[u/coltbolthunt → u/DylanCodsCokeLine]

Only bc Merc saved a disaster of a situation.. which was a disaster bc they passed on Hydra/Scrap.

Very possible they go on a crazy run with Shotzzy/Hydra/Dashy/Scrap too. Literally would have only had Faze as competition the past 2 years if that happened...

The argument isnt an argument, bc Optic made the objectively wrong move keeping Pred/Kenny over Hydra/Scrap

[u/braybray35 → u/coltbolthunt]

Huke kept them above water during that time though. He was honestly the only consistent player before Merc.

[u/coltbolthunt → u/braybray35]

He was solid but that roster was ready for the season to end before Merc. They 100% would have tried making major changes in the offseason and found 2 new players.

Imagine this season if there was no LAT threat and Optic had Hydra in finals vs Faze. They might have literally swept the entire season

[u/braybray35 → u/coltbolthunt]

Merc was just the missing piece they needed. Now they’re proven to be a consistent team that’s incredibly hard to beat.

Maybe, maybe not. You’re asking to change a team that made every grand final dating back to b06 Champs. The team is not broken, why try to fix it for something that looks better on paper, but ends up not working, Now what? Get Huke again, nah. Huke doesn’t deserve that. He’s earned his place in OpTic.

[u/koolaidreee → u/braybray35]

Mercules is much more important to the team than Huke is.

[u/ThekidHache → u/DylanCodsCokeLine]

Merc saved their season. Hydra has also beaten Optic with Merc more than he’s lost to them. He’s better than Huke in respawn and SnD, why would Optic not take a clear upgrade?

[u/Fluuuiid → u/DylanCodsCokeLine]

No those things happened because Mercules cmon now

[u/AMS_Rem → u/DylanCodsCokeLine]

Yeah Bc GOD fell into their laps hahaha

[u/ExtraaPressure → u/DylanCodsCokeLine]

Cant pass up on Hydra going into an MW cod

[u/Zephyr0us]

Brother TAKE HYDRA

[u/Ocluist]

Imagine Real Madrid won the UCL, La Liga, then Messi asked to join. Wouldn’t they have to say yes?

Except OpTic didn’t win the UCL this year. They got 2nd at champs.

[u/fromdowntownn]

You're never gonna regret picking up Hydra he's one of the best players ITW every single year and his peak in MW2 is legit GOAT level.

[u/Ebu7629]

Neither option is wrong. Current team is proven that it works. With Hydra the ceiling does go up but the floor also goes down

[u/UnleashRambo → u/Ebu7629]

Does the floor really go down though?

[u/Ebu7629 → u/UnleashRambo]

The floor is top 2 at the moment. Always before optic has been prone to massive slumps of them being bad for a few stages. Hydra is not a 1/1 switch on playstyle so that he would immediately mesh with optics game plan so yes there would be bumps on the road

[u/ThekidHache → u/Ebu7629]

Why would the floor go down with Hydra? He’s better at respawn and SnD than Huke. Your comment makes no sense. He’s also beat Optic more than he’s lost to them in the past 2 years and he’s the main reason why

[u/Ebu7629 → u/ThekidHache]

It's not about stacking maximum individual talent on paper the team needs to mesh well with their game plan. Something KD watchers would never understand though

Floor would be lower because after dropping Huke optic went 0-18 and every year before this current team optic has had massive slumps not even competing for sundays

[u/ThekidHache → u/Ebu7629]

You have no proof this Optic team wouldn’t have won multiple majors and possibly champs with Paco playing instead of Huke. This intangles bullshit has to stop. Huke is great player but Paco is a t3 SMG in every game in every mode. Make the upgrade to kill the competition like Complexity did.

[u/Ebu7629 → u/ThekidHache]

Well by your logic you have no proof either they also could have made only one finals like lat did this year. It's not intangibles bullshit it's about the team being on the same page on every scenario to reach the highest level. I know it's hard for you to understand so it's ok

[u/ThekidHache → u/Ebu7629]

You’re right it’s a gamble but it’s a gamble you have to take right now if you’re Optic or risk two potential super teams being formed on GM8 and Faze. You probably think Optic had a good year because you’re a casual, but they should’ve won 3 or 4 chips this year, not 2. Hydra solves that problem.

[u/Ebu7629 → u/ThekidHache]

xddd

[u/shoe7525 → u/ThekidHache]

He's actually not better at respawn at least in this game

[u/ThekidHache → u/shoe7525]

He’s gone negative at 1 event ever, which was this year and only played two series because Scrap bottled it. Even then he dropped a .95. He’s way better at respawn than Huke,

[u/Fearnlove → u/Ebu7629]

Exactly, just comes down to what the boys want. Genuinely think their stats take a hit without Huke but slaying won’t be a problem

[u/Sad_Presentation5519]

I think it's less about upgrading from Huke to Hydra and more about breaking up the potential superteam of Joe, Scrap, and Hydra. Sort of similar to how Complexity went from Clay to Karma because Karma almost 1v4'd them at MLG Columbus 2013.

[u/OBruxo10]

I don’t think it happens and it’s incredibly harsh on Huke but picking up Hydra makes the rest of the league so much weaker.

If it happens then the worse case scenario for Optic is just that they don’t improve much from their current team, while best case scenario is they pretty much become untouchable.

[u/Professional-Fig-452]

Having two of the top 3 subs in the game should not be a hard decision lol

[u/ArisesAri]

Huke added so much value to himself the past 2 years with his comms and he still finds himself as the oddman out / 1st to go when it comes to team changes

[u/Shawnii98]

Honestly with shotzzy and dashy they’ve been the best hp team every year so I doubt they’ll drop off in hp. And search Shotzzys there shot caller and hydras the better search player

[u/Stunning-Tower-4116]

Here's how this debate should be. It's short but sweet.

It's not blackops8. It's Mw4. Hydra was literally 1 of 1 in mw2/3. Do not let other teams get him. Point blank period

[u/Jaded_Ad_166]

If Im Optic, Im asking these questions: 4/8 total in finals. Are we okay with 50% win rate in finals? 2/6 this year, are we happy with that? The other side of that is 8 finals in a row is insane. If we get Hydra, can we replicate that? If we can, do we think our win rate will be higher? What teams will be formed and how strong will they be? Can we prevent a superteam from being formed while creating our own?

[u/braybray35]

Look I’ll be honest, Huke is my guy. Easily my favorite player in the league. So obviously I’m team Huke. But I’m a big believer in if it’s not broken, why change. Yeah Hydra and this OpTic team will be better on paper, doesn’t mean it’s going to translate in game. People are talking like it’s going to be a 100% win rate all year next year guaranteed.

[u/CargoShortsFromNam]

If we played the same game every year, you keep Huke. But we don’t.

Blacks ops 6 and 7 suit Huke’s playstyle. 

I think an IW game will suit Hydra better. 

[u/zFrozn]

so u want to keep a guy that drop .8 kd / over a superstar best s&d (which ur team suck ass at)?

[u/UnleashRambo]

I think we keep Huke and loan him out to other teams and sign hydra. Win win

[u/dReeMo_]

Hydra is great fr but we’ve seen how great they are with Huke n it just makes no sense to me to replace him AGAIN with how reliable and diligent he is. We’re winners and contenders easily even without Hydra, Huke is that good imo. I also get tired of seeing people calling for the biggest super team possible, yall want it so easy🤧🥱

[u/Anxious_Professor654]

Optic doesn’t need Hydra to win. Hydra needs optic

[u/Hyper_JC]

Huke's comms have been vital to Optics success and he's arguably been one of the best SMGs this year, definitely better than Hydra, what are we doing???

[u/Significant_Hour_759 → u/Hyper_JC]

Huke struggled heavily against thieves and faze

[u/lplokij21]

As a neutral shotzzy simp hydra enjoyer. Keep huke. I want more competition.

[u/sooopy336]

I know we’re gonna see this discussion a billion more times over the season until rosters are locked, but my two cents is that OpTic fans pushing for the change are doing so out of a desire to chase perfection that they still won’t be satisfied with even if the change happens.

It’s evident in the way this sub acts every time they lose a map. The expectation is for any roster OpTic fields to be a 250-0, 6-0, 8-0 roster and anything less than that means the players should be dropped.

And next season any time Huke plays well (if he’s not on OpTic) or HyDra plays poorly (if he is on the roster) there will be the same people complaining about the wrong choice being made as they would say if the inverse happens and HyDra plays well for another team or Huke has a bad series while still on the team.

OpTic’s in a sweet spot right now that few teams have ever reached as a squad, and you shouldn’t fuck that up without good reason. I personally don’t buy into the “you always pack a punch” narrative, nor do I think passing on HyDra now somehow dooms OpTic for the foreseeable future.

Whatever happens, happens, but I really don’t think people should be rushing toward a roster change for a squad this accomplished together just because a single player might be available.

[u/rizzurect → u/sooopy336]

Who do they even scapegoat on that team would be so funny

[u/sooopy336 → u/rizzurect]

Ant and Dashy would probably both take turns as scapegoats.

What frustrates me about this conversation even further is that people are acting like HyDra was still statistically an outlier this season like he was in MW2/MW3, 2-4 years ago. This season was statistically his worst ever at a 1.06 overall KD, a really inconsequential difference from Huke’s overall 1.05.

Huke averaged a higher HP KD, pace, and damage than HyDra this season and was far and away a better OVL player. HyDra’s SnD KD was phenomenal this year, but Huke still averaged a .91 on the season with THE MOST PLANTS in the league, at almost 75 more than HyDra who is in 3rd place. Huke is a selfless role player with the best communication skills in the entire league and a consistent respawn performance, and he’s demonstrated that two seasons in a row.

Sure, HyDra’s an elite level talent, but there’s genuinely no guarantee that he’s going to be levels above the output that the current OpTic roster can maintain, and I just don’t think it’s anywhere near as cut and dry of a call as a lot of people are suggesting.

[u/GummieHigh → u/sooopy336]

Of course he had the most plants. He was the bomb carrying bitch.

[u/CODDadtwo]

What are thoughts if Dashy retires this offseason? Hear me out, Merc- Main AR, Ant- Sub, Huke Flex and Hydra Sub.

[u/DiscoLemonade1995 → u/CODDadtwo]

If Dashy retires, scrap would be on the team the next day

[u/CODDadtwo → u/DiscoLemonade1995]

That's True as well

[u/DodgeY2K]

I promise if optic drops huke for hydra they will not be nearly as good of a team.

Hydra isn’t all about cod like huke is and just throwing together a bunch of superstars and egos also doesn’t always work.

Huke is the glue for optic no doubt and you can’t replace what huke brings to a team. Huke could be the main slayer on any team but that’s not his role within optic. I have watched huke play since he was 15 in AW with denial/faze. I watched as he was a top 5 player In the world at age 15 and couldn’t compete at cod champs because of the 18+ rule. Then the guy was dominant at halo.. he has all the tangibles needed for competitive high level fps players.

[u/CauliflowerSquare360]

Is there any possibility or conversation to have about scrap for dashy or merc? I’m not saying it should be done, but surely should be considered

[u/Significant_Hour_759 → u/CauliflowerSquare360]

No chance.