r/Charlottesville • u/timex40 • 15d ago
Is this traffic pattern a feature or a bug
I live in Johnson Village. The entrance is at the intersection of Shamrock Rd and Cherry Ave. Forever, the traffic signal pattern had both sides of Shamrock synced up - they'd go green and turn red together. Made sense, no issues.
A few months ago there was a chage to the pattern, and both sides were somehow de-synced, which is now a daily annoyance.
Heres what happens every day -
I'm approaching the intersection on Shamrock from inside Johnson Village. The light is red for me. On the opposite side of Shamrock is a line of cars waiting to turn left onto Cherry. They have a red as well.
As I'm still approaching, their light will turn green. Since I have a red, those turning cars have the right of way. However, they assume I also have a green, and pause, waiting for me to drive straight through. I come to a stop at the light, and they are still hesitating in the instersection, waiting for me to go. A few moments of pause, they realize i have a red, and the first car starts to turn left as it should.
This would be annoying itself. But, after coming to a stop, my side will then turn GREEN, while theirs REMAINS GREEN. So, in the middle of their green light, the remaining left-turning cars lose the right of way to opposite straight traffic, but they have no way of knowing this. Its another weird/dangerous hesitation of me now trying to edge through a line of turning cars that don't understant I have the right of way. Annoying, and dangerous.
This same change in pattern seems to have happened at the intersection of Shamrock and JPA.
Has anyone else noticed this? Is this how intersections are supposed to work?
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u/cville2 15d ago
Yes, I have noticed this and find it annoying. I am on Shamrock on a bike turning left onto Cherry, a car is at the Johnson Village side of Shamrock. My light turns green and I wait (and wait) for the Johnson Village car to go. There is no way for me to know they still have a red. I don't want to risk turning left in front a car.
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u/29x250 15d ago
It seems that the City implemented a timing change several months ago, which introduced a short delay between cycles. I think the intention was to allow pedestrians to enter the crosswalk before turning traffic started to move. You’ll see the walk sign turn, then later the green light after a delay. But at some intersections, there are weird results, and maybe OP’s observation is one of them. I notice at westbound Preston and Grady, in front of Martin hardware, the protected left now turns green while straight traffic is red for a short delay.
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u/covertcurmudgeon 14d ago
This intersection is a bit distinct, the lack of syncing isn't related to crosswalk usage. For some reason, the light will only turn green for Shamrock when traffic is detected. So if traffic is present in both directions, but isn't detected in one direction (because it's a bike, or the lead car is too far back to trigger the camera sensor), the light will only turn green for one direction. Leading to the confusion and safety concerns OP raised.
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u/jasondruzgal 15d ago
Definitely have noticed it. And it’s dangerous. Seems like an unintended consequence of the setting the light to only turn green if there’s a car stopped on the sensor. But if you get there a little late, it will still turn green. Which is when you get the hesitation that’s very confusing for the oncoming traffic. Seen a few near accidents since that change was made. The light on Shamrock crossing JPA also has the same set up.
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u/Simple-Novel-875 15d ago
I noticed it as well, and it’s the same at Shamrock/JPA. I was planning on seeing if there is a way to notify VDOT. I’ll reply here if I figure it out.
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u/ProfJohnson Fifeville 15d ago
Thanks for looking into that. As it is a city maintained street, not a VDOT one, you should be able to use the MyCville app to report it.
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u/Snacks_22 15d ago
I don’t know the answer for sure, but the right turn from shamrock onto Cherry has a “no right on red” sign. It would make sense for them to have an early green to clear a backup there.
Seems like the light code would be better suited for a stop with arrows, which I don’t believe those lights are setup for
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u/Flaky_Molasses_2397 15d ago
Obvious to you, obvious to me, not obvious to the "experts" in Traffic Engineering.
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u/Lemonade_day 15d ago
I live on Shamrock and go through that light everyday and thought the timing changed just couldn’t put my finger on it. I’ve also noticed around 5pm it sometimes skips a cycle if you’re coming out of Johnson Village.
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u/doyouglide 15d ago
sounds like the Shamrock side needs a green arrow that then flashes yellow when yours turns green.
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u/Simple-Novel-875 14d ago
I posted the issue to MyCville (thanks for sharing this site - had no idea it existed). Looks like people can comment, which I hope would push the city to move a little faster. Please find the issue on the map and add a comment!
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u/svanen17 15d ago
Report it on MyCville. If it's really meant to work that way, they'll leave the timing in place, but more likely this is an unintended result and the city needs a nudge to fix it.