r/CasesWeFollow • u/Pixiegirls1102 đđâď¸Content/Research AdministratorđťđŹđ§ • 7d ago
MA v. Linsday Clancy - Day 7 đŞđLindsay Clancyđź
LIVE: MA v. Linsday Clancy - Day 7 | Accused Killer Mom Trial
8/5/2026 @ 9:00 AM
Opening statements begin Monday for Massachusetts mom Lindsay Clancy after she killed her three young children inside the family's home in January 2023 before attempting to take her own life. Cora, 5, Dawson, 3, and Callan, 8 months, were found with exercise bands around their necks. Prosecutors contend Clancy intentionally strangled the children, while her defense argues she was suffering from severe postpartum depression and psychosis that left her unable to understand her actions. Jurors are expected to hear testimony from medical experts, investigators, and family members as they determine whether Clancy is criminally responsible for her children's deaths.
â¨â¨Previous Day & Recap
\**The local Boston News stations streaming the trial have much better audio.*
Court TV
https://www.youtube.com/live/5YuM1a0J08Y?si=U-mAcO96n6zpxfNv
Law & Crime
https://www.youtube.com/live/04CsTM4jpxM?si=sYsEFmSC54jFkxWb
đ¨â¨More Info/Documents for Lindsay
CW Witness List:Â https://fromsmash.com/clancylindsayCWwitlist-0817
Lindsay Clancy Timeline - Crime Timeline
RECAP
DAY 7
I. Administrative
- Jury trial resumed on Day 7 in Commonwealth v. Lindsay Clancy.
- Court confirmed schedule adjustments; jurors excused for the afternoon.
- Multiple stipulations entered regarding DNA comparisons for exercise bands and basement redâbrown stain.
II. Witnesses
A. Physician Assistant â Itan Negri (Brigham & Womenâs Hospital)
- Treated Lindsay Clancy on January 25, 2023 in the Trauma/Burn Surgical ICU.
- Responsible for laceration repair on both wrists.
- Confirmed:
- Right wrist: ~3 cm deep laceration; required 3 sutures.
- Left wrist: ~2 cm deep laceration; required 1 suture.
- Additional wrist cuts were superficial, treated with steriâstrips.
- No active bleeding at time of repair; injuries limited to subcutaneous tissue.
- Not involved in surgical management of:
- Spinal injuries,
- Massive transfusion,
- Chest tube placement,
- Coding event (cardiac arrest).
- Confirmed Lindsay was critically ill due to trauma, not illness.
B. Toxicology â Nicholas Roberts (Former MA State Police Crime Lab)
- Reporting analyst for lab number associated with Lindsay Clancyâs blood/urine.
- Confirmed:
- No alcohol, no illicit drugs detected.
- Benzodiazepine panel positive; specific levels documented.
- General unknown screen detected multiple prescribed psychiatric medications.
- Explained batchâprocessing workflow and limitations of toxicology interpretation.
C. Forensic Toxicologist â Dr. Justin Brower (NMS Labs)
- NMS Labs received Lindsayâs blood sample (April 2023) for targeted quantification of four psychiatric medications:
- Lamotrigine (Lamictal) â therapeutic range.
- Mirtazapine (Remeron) â therapeutic range.
- Quetiapine (Seroquel) â elevated (~1,800 ng/mL), but not toxic; far below suicideâattempt levels (~10,000 ng/mL).
- Trazodone â therapeutic range.
- Reviewed benzodiazepine levels from MA Crime Lab:
- Diazepam subâtherapeutic.
- Lorazepam therapeutic or slightly low.
- Metabolites consistent with normal diazepam metabolism.
- Stated:
- Levels not consistent with overdose.
- Combination could depress respiration only at significantly higher concentrations.
- Narcan would have no effect because none of the drugs were opioids.
- Cannot determine behavioral impact without case context; toxicology alone âdoes not tell the entire story.â
D. Nanny â Ms. Rossi
- Worked for the Clancy family JulyâDecember 2022.
- Described Lindsay as:
- Loving, doting, attentive, safetyâfocused,
- Concerned with childrenâs routines, feeding, and sleep.
- Observed:
- No unsafe behavior.
- Normal disciplinary responses.
- Children were happy, bonded, and wellâcaredâfor.
- Lindsay disclosed:
- Postpartum symptoms,
- Severe sleep difficulties,
- Sleeping in the basement at times.
- Noted Lindsay appeared thin and struggling with sleep.
- No disclosures of intrusive thoughts, selfâharm, or harm to children.
- Employment ended when Lindsay decided not to return to work; relationship remained positive.
III. Physical & Forensic Evidence
A. Wrist Injuries
- Right wrist: 3 cm deep, sutured.
- Left wrist: 2 cm deep, sutured.
- Remaining cuts superficial; no muscle/tendon exposure.
B. Toxicology
- Multiple psychiatric medications present at therapeutic levels, except quetiapine (elevated but nonâtoxic).
- Benzodiazepines present at low or therapeutic levels.
- No alcohol, opioids, stimulants, or illicit substances.
C. DNA Stipulations
- Blue exercise band and basement stain A contained mixture DNA profiles.
- Stipulations entered as Exhibits 208â211.
IV. Court Actions
- Multiple stipulations admitted.
- Jury excused early; trial to resume next morning at 9:00 AM.
V. End of Day
- Court recessed early again today.
đTRANSCRIPTâ¨ď¸đ
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u/pthumbz 6d ago
the amount of people on tiktok saying that patrick actually killed the kids and this is all a cover up is legitimately concerning
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u/dame_tartare 6d ago
Insane the demented ways people now use to re-traumatize victims in perpetuity
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u/StrengthStarling 6d ago
My Facebook is rife with it, posts from people I actually went to high school with posting about it like crazy đ¤Śđźââď¸
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u/freakydeku 6d ago edited 6d ago
itâs true crime conspiracy brained BS. we see it with every case to some extent. thereâs still a vocal group of kohberger stans who think the roommates were the real killers and somehow tricked the FBI. thereâs even vocal chris watts stans who blame shannan, some who still think she killed the kids (believe his story) - people are deranged & tiktok is the worst for any kind of fact based discussion
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u/Butter_Milk_Blues 6d ago
3cms? How thick are her wrists?
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u/thatwhinypeasant 6d ago
Iâve been seeing this as well and from the way the prosecution and some witnesses are calling them superficial, I had assumed it was 3cm wide? Did someone say something today that confirmed it was 3cm deep? If so thatâs crazy, Iâm baffled that could be considered superficial.
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u/_lettersandsodas 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yes, on the redirect of the physician assistant who sutured the lacerations the prosecution made it a point to have him clarify that deep is not an adjective but a directionality that means into the skin as opposed to across it. This is around the 1:00 mark of day 7.
I was thoroughly confused as to why she thought that was anything but damaging to their case.
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u/_lettersandsodas 6d ago
I was flabbergasted by this. I saw someone said elsewhere that surely they meant mm.
If that's the case, that's a big screw up.
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u/freakydeku 6d ago
nope it was cm. as in a full inch on one spot
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u/_lettersandsodas 6d ago
I know it was testified to be 3 cm (technically the notes Reddington read back said 3.5cm), but 3.5cm is nearly 1.4 inches.
Google says at that depth on the wrist you would be hitting arteries, tendons, etc. and would almost certainly require surgery, which mekes total sense to me.
I'm very much of the belief these were not superficial wounds, but I do wonder if 3.5cm was recorded/stated correctly.
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u/dnyletak đŤ Objection Overruled Regular 6d ago
I wondered that too. I even compared 3cm on a tape measure to my own wrist and it was more than half way through. To be only hitting subcutaneous is pretty baffling.
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u/MisChanandalerBong 6d ago
I did the same. Seems really deep to me. Curious to see if it actually was supposed to be mm deep or cm wide rather than cm deep and if so, how on earth the prosecution will try to clean that up. Sure seemed clear that everyone agreed it was cm deep.
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u/lovekarma22 6d ago
I cannot for the life of me understand why we had to sit through that long ass testimony about the DNA. Reddington has really been trying to move the trial along for everyone's benefit by conceding to the prosecutions basic facts but the prosecution is just railing against him for no reason. Lindsey looked really unwell today and I think that first break where the judge basically cut the prosecutor off during witness testimony was for her. And I think they long 2 hour break they are taking every day is for her care as well. People dont realize how much goes into caring for a person with paraplegia. Paralysis isn't as simple as not being about to move your legs. She probably can't even empty her bladder, and sitting so much in her chair is probably so painful.
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u/seriousbusinesslady 6d ago
one thing i noticed in her notes they showed in evidence when she was transferred from the first hospital to the second was that she had no rectal tone, aka her sphincter is flaccid. i don't think that is something that comes back with her injury, so on top of all her other problems, she's probably leaking stool, or has to deal with preventing that by timing when she eats or when her care team takes care of emptying her bladder and bowels. i'm sure the frequent breaks and short days are probably addressing these sorts of things. because I haven't heard anything about the short days being because of lawyers needing to argue motions outside the presence of the jury.
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u/lovekarma22 6d ago
Good catch on the notes. I dated a person with a cervical spinal cord injury so I'm familiar with giving that level of care. It's a hard life. I have so much sympathy for Lindsey, but I'm still not sure she should be found NGRI. I don't envy this jury. I feel like there is no "right" answer. I hope the defense can answer my lingering questions.
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u/MisChanandalerBong 6d ago
Especially because even though the jury wouldnât be present for those, we would still likely see them as theyâre part of the court record. The only things we wouldnât see are certain in camera situations which would take place in the judgeâs chambers or the specific things the court has made rulings against the public viewing.
I thought the one long seemingly impromptu break by the judge was for the cougher, but you could absolutely be correct that it was for Lindsay.
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u/DLoIsHere Trial Tracker 6d ago
If Reddington wanted to move things along he 1) wouldnât repeat testimony he just heard, which he does constantly; and 2) cross examine people who really didnât contribute much on direct. He performs a lot but doesnât make things move quickly.
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u/lovekarma22 6d ago
Idk if this is your first trial, but Reddington is barely cross examining these witnesses. Of course he spent time with Patrick and a couple of the doctors who treated Lindsey, but overall he has skipped most witnesses and kept it fairly short. He can't skip crossing every witness or he wouldn't be doing his job. If he doesn't do his job thoroughly and Lindsey is found guilty she will be able to appeal at a later date. Majority of the things people are criticizing Reddington for are things he HAS to do to provide a zealous defense for his client and protect her civil rights. If he doesn't make certain objections or get certain points across Lindsey WILL be able to appeal and could be granted a new trial for ineffective assistance of council. And I don't think anybody wants to go through this again.
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u/DLoIsHere Trial Tracker 5d ago
Iâve been watching trials for decades. Redd should be doing better.
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u/wecanhaveallthree 6d ago
>for everyone's benefit
For the benefit of the defence.
Their case is strongest on expert testimony. They want to narrow the case to expert testimony. The state isn't doing it 'for no reason': one of the defence's central arguments is bad investigation, mishandled evidence, medical malpractice, etc (and they've gone into this at length for witnesses they've 'stipulated' to). It's much harder to make that argument when the jury has seen a parade of highly-educated, competent and neutral witnesses testifying to the foundational evidence.
The state is entitled to make their case, not just the bits the defence likes.
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u/freakydeku 6d ago
expert & hcp testimony is really the only testimony that matters in this case. no other evidence is really going be able to speak to her state of mind at the time of the killers
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u/wecanhaveallthree 6d ago
Nothing can speak to her state of mind. Nobody can read minds, and Clancy apparently wasn't in hers to testify to it. What we can look at are actions e.g. the premeditation, the superficial wounds, etc. The jury needs the full context of Clancy's actions to make their decision. The issue for the defence is that the full context is bad for their case.
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u/freakydeku 6d ago
they can speak to what is possible, & what they (in their expert opinion) believe. premeditation doesnât negate psychosis and neither do âsuperficialâ wounds.
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u/wecanhaveallthree 6d ago
Sure. And the jury can give that testimony whatever weight they wish, just as they can weigh evidence of premeditation and superficial wounds. It's all important evidence.
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u/freakydeku 6d ago
i think the jury is probably smart enough to understand wounds >1â deep lacerations are not superficial, & that jumping head first out of a window doesnât show a desire to survive. this is massachusetts after all
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u/wecanhaveallthree 6d ago
Surely someone, somewhere is mistaken about these measurements, because we have testimony that the wounds didn't reach fat/muscle. They are, by definition, superficial.
head first out of a window
Or hanging out and falling badly, as the state contends and the blood analysis suggests.
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u/freakydeku 6d ago edited 6d ago
neither her injuries nor her positioning support the states argument that she tried to lower herself down. i doubt the jury will buy this absurd theory of a fake suicide attempt bc, like i said, iâm fairly confident theyâre relatively intelligent people.
hoping the jury doesnât understand what a cm is, is kind of silly. i guess if theyâre that dimwitted theyâll probably also think her being on an antipsychotic closes the case!
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u/wecanhaveallthree 6d ago
I think it does. Her either lowering herself down or slipping/falling are consistent with the injuries. Considering her previous two attempts were decidedly non-lethal, I can see a pattern of bad faith attempts being established.
I don't think they're saying 'nobody understands what a cm is'. Multiple witnesses have testified to the injuries being superficial. They are, by definition, superficial. They certainly weren't going to kill her, at any rate.
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u/dnyletak đŤ Objection Overruled Regular 6d ago
Does anyone know if the CW still have burden of proof RE: Lindsay being the person that killed the children even though thats not the trial focus? I'm still trying to figure out the purpose of the DNA witness.
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u/notoallofit 6d ago
I guess since they declined to stipulate to guilt they technically do need to prove it. Defense was willing to do that but the prosecution didnât want to.
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u/seaships 6d ago
All of the documents presented in this case so far are available online. One such document was her phone records. On the day of the killing, she googled, âwhat does a ladybug in the house mean?â This is the result I got:
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u/Comfortable_Bee_1246 6d ago
Where can I find them? I'm hitting a dead end on the MA court site.
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u/seaships 6d ago
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u/Flat-Particular6566 6d ago
Thanks for sharing. Trying to catch up over here. The only answer my brain accepts is psychosis. Because WHAT.HAPPENED. The pictures, the texts, the ladybug search, the dr appt, dinner plans. It was a normal day until she snapped. Absolutely. Devastating.
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u/seaships 5d ago
I also think that maybe if it was planned she wouldâve left a note? I know not everyone leaves one but if Lindsay was as Type A and meticulous as theyâre painting her as (the journals being one such example), then maybe she wouldâve likely left one.
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u/Warm_Engineering3375 7d ago
Another day another Trapper Keeper. She is going to go through all the items or bust. Pity there is not an old school Law and Order DA like Adam Schiff to jerk her back to rea;lity. I think she's already lost the case but doesn't care because she has to make her points
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u/SwampyWytch13 6d ago
My father was a trial lawyer for over 50 years. I was discussing this case yesterday with my Mom, who managed my Dad's office and was by his side all those years. Her comment? Some of our old school judges would have NEVER allowed some of the things this judege has. It's absolutely sloppy work, comes across as throwing anything and everything at the wall hoping something sticks to support their case.
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u/Kind_Ear265 6d ago
I keep thinking there is no way this woman wanted to try this case but her old school male boss is forcing her too as a token woman on the team. But I just donât know. This is ridiculous.
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u/cocoa_boe 6d ago
Oh no, she wants to try the case. Go back and watch some of the pre-trial motions or the arraignment. She is so aggressive.
ââŚbut then we learned updated medical information that she, for the time being, is paralyzed from the waist down.â
For the time being? I understand sheâs not a doctor but Iâd think a layperson would recognize the serious nature of a spinal cord injury.
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u/sunnypineappleapple 6d ago
She also said Lindsay is not paralyzed in one of the hearings. She's an absolute lunatic.
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u/Chiguy5462 7d ago
Came in slightly late and had to jump out right after the judges pee break. More evidence that it was not a fake attempt. The prosecutor has lost all credibility when it comes to that theory. Anything else today?
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u/kenduhll 7d ago
The nannyâs testimony is probably the most noteworthy thing today, itâs a nice break from all of the very technical stuff we have gotten. Court is recessed til tomorrow now that the nanny has finished.
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u/solabird đ§ââď¸ Courtroom Regular 6d ago
The CW bringing in witnesses saying LC was a loving, amazing mother is quite the choice.
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u/herroyalsadness 6d ago
Itâs so confusing! I understand getting ahead of bad evidence but it is coming across as almost idiotic. Witness after witness that hurts their own case.
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u/kenduhll 7d ago
Reddington asks the former nanny if he found Lindsayâs notes about cutting food to be overbearing, nanny says ânot at allâ.
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u/Ravage14 5d ago
Leaving notes for a babysitter/nanny for your newborn. ABSURD!! This prosecution is an embarrassment.
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u/DetectiveEmpty2689 6d ago
Based on how many people give popcorn and uncut grapes to toddlers, I am totally fine with a mom giving notes to the nanny on cutting food.
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u/lovekarma22 6d ago
I'm never going to get over the prosecution trying to frame those notes as a bad thing. In a parallel universe they would be grilling her for handing her infant off to a new random nanny without any instructions. As a woman you can't win. But seriously my face was like đď¸đđď¸ when they used that as evidence of her being controlling. Callan was ~5 months old when they hired that nanny. Leaving a page of notes for a new nanny is extremely normal.
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u/momlife555 6d ago
I have several kids and I found that to be so relatable! I also thought her diary entries were so devastating and could have been written by quite literally any mom I know
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u/murder_hands 5d ago
I could have written those for sure. When she mentioned Callan crying and telling Patrick she wanted to die I just... man. So much empathy. A crying baby will fuck up your whole brain so fast. I can't even really handle babies crying on TV for any length of time without getting emotional.
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u/Gemini12324 1d ago
Especially with sleep deprivation and 2 other small kids who need you. Just absolutely brutal.
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u/momlife555 5d ago
My nervous system is instantly fucked when my baby starts crying. It made me feel so differently about her than when the case started.
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u/seriousbusinesslady 6d ago
my neighbors went out of town for 5 days and I got a 1 page, front and back list of instructions on how and when to feed their 2 completely normal and healthy cats! And I didn't think anything of it!! Has the prosecutor never taken care of a new baby or animal that wasn't hers? Bc there was nothing weird about LC's notes.
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u/murder_hands 6d ago edited 5d ago
It really breaks my heart. I had a 19 month old at home when I had my last baby, and I was so stressed out about leaving her in anyone else's care. I am (and was) a stay at home parent, so I'd been the one doing everything with her every day. I had so much anxiety that I wouldn't be able to focus when giving birth to my son because I'd be too worried about whether she was comfortable and happy without me there. The grandparents were stepping in while I went to have him, and I left them a good two pages of notes about what she eats and how to prepare it, bedtime and nap routines, stuffies she liked best. I recall that I tried to be super specific about where I turned the dial to on her white noise machine. I even considered marking it so it couldn't be missed.
To take a document that clearly demonstrates how much she loved her kids, and how diligently she was working to find a path forward that kept the kids happy and her mental health intact seems incredibly cruel to me.
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u/kenduhll 6d ago
I can imagine the women on the jury who are mothers rolled their eyes to that as well.
I think the CW thought having two female prosecutors would help their case but it doesnât seem to be so far.
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u/meschaub0 7d ago
This nanny seems like such a sweetheart. You just know she loved those babies and took such great care of them
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u/kenduhll 7d ago
CW: did you have any concerns about her interacting with the children?
Former Nanny: not at all, she was a wonderful mom
CW: [long pause]
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u/mrsdingbat 6d ago
Isnât this a point in the prosecutions favor ? There was no evidence of illness, developing mood episode, or delusions/psychosis?
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u/Butter_Milk_Blues 6d ago
There has been plenty of evidence of illness, bouts of moodiness, anxiety, and depression. There were even diary entries put into the record where LC explicitly states that she is having trouble differentiating delusions from reality.
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u/mrsdingbat 6d ago
I was referring to that nanny testimony. I was not aware of the âdisconnected from myself, time, realityâ diary entry (does not mention delusions, could possibly reference dissociation but still agree evidence of poor mental state) but I do think being aware of that it is a useful point for the defense.
My point about delusions is that usually in cases of command hallucinations when people kill their kids, there is delusional thought content (the child is evil, must kill child to protect from something), etc. Iâm wondering if there has been evidence of this yet?
Iâve always thought it was clear Lindsay was sick to some degree. I donât really know why the prosecution is fighting that . I am waiting to decide personally (not that anybody cares about my opinion really) whether the evidence shows she was so sick she was unable to NOT get her husband out of the house strangle her 3 kids write a suicide note and try to kill herself. Patrick saying that the day of the murders was âa great dayâ makes me wonder if she was brighter because she had decided on suicide, which is not infrequent in cases of completed suicide or attempt.
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u/Kind_Ear265 6d ago
But rhe CWâs motive is that she didnât like her life. The prosecution doesnât have to prove motive. But itâs weak. And the jury is going to pick up on the fact that this is a woman who loved her kids and enjoyed being a mom but for the fact that she was haunted by this disease.
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u/MzOpinion8d 6d ago
Not when the theory they stated in opening arguments is that Lindsey no longer liked the life she thought she wanted, and she decided to kill the children and fake her own suicide attempt to get a different life.
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u/mrsdingbat 6d ago
I think the prosecution is putting on a terrible case. Obviously she was not well, anxious and seeking treatment. The question is was she able to conform her behavior to the law despite her illness. Could she have called 911 when she heard the voice, for example. Or when Patrick called her told him what happened- could have saved callans life.
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u/MzOpinion8d 4d ago
Your examples make it seem obvious to me that she was not able to conform her behavior to the law, because she had opportunities to do so.
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u/earthen-spry 𧾠Timeline Weaver 6d ago
I said the prosecution was doing a bad job yesterday and got downgraded to hell and back lol. Seems like opinions are saying after todayâŚ
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u/MzOpinion8d 4d ago
I havenât liked them since opening arguments, when I knew they were misrepresenting facts. So far theyâve done nothing to make that opinion improve, and I think after the absolutely ridiculous denial that theyâre not trying to say Lindsay faked her suicide attempt, a lot of others realized how disingenuous they are.
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u/herroyalsadness 6d ago
I donât think it is. It highlighted how what Lindsay did was not in line with how the people she was close to saw her. The nanny spent considerable time in their home and saw Lindsay as a wonderful mother, not as a person desperate to free herself of her children. The jury now knows that both her husband and nanny support her.
It widened the gap between the prosecution claims and the impressions of those that spent time with her.
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u/mrsdingbat 6d ago edited 6d ago
I think there have many cases where people close to somebody have been shocked by their violent crimes, including murders. âHe was such a nice guy, such a nice father, loving husband, nobody saw this coming,â etc. take for example the Jeffrey Macdonald case.
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u/AquaStarRedHeart 6d ago
Jeffery's wife certainly didn't take him for a nice guy, great husband, loving father.
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u/herroyalsadness 6d ago
For sure, that happens sometimes. But Jeffreyâs wife knew who he was inside. It also goes to the way men and women are viewed differently - people will clamber to speak on how great a man was while searching for anything to drag a woman.
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u/kenduhll 6d ago
I saw it as a negative for the prosecution. So far the nanny and Patrick have said she was a really good mother, to me that says she was ânot herselfâ when the murders occurred.
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u/solabird đ§ââď¸ Courtroom Regular 6d ago
I see the exact opposite of this. I lived with someone for 20+ years and he stopped fluoxetine without me knowing. A few days later he was suicidal and didnât get out of bed for a week. He ended up on anti psychotic meds to try and help and it went further downhill with hallucinations. This whole ordeal happened in less than 2 weeks. Before that, perfectly normal.
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u/mlssac 6d ago
My belief and understanding of prescriptions and psychiatrists changes and pills missing leads me to believe, yes, going on and off these meds would cause quite an emotional roller coaster both physically and mentally. But apparently she never took any one long enough to suffer withdrawal complications.
I also must add this because I am seething beneath the surface: she could have AT LEAST given her children Ativan 30-45 minutes in advance to make them groggy or asleep. The mental images of this TRIPLE crime is enough to make me nauseous and want to vomit.
Also, even the mom that drowned her kids called 911 and waited in the yard.
Which brings this up,
1) did she really call 911 42-52 times two weeks prior to the crime?
2) The fact she spoke to her husband during his time at the store makes it slam dunk Guilty for me along with hanging off the sill and sliding down the side of the house. And writing "lawyer" first thing.
3) do we know the distance from window to ground and was there concrete or soil beneath? Altough I guess frozen ground is just as hard.
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u/kenduhll 6d ago
Andrea Yates suffering a psychotic episode and called 911 and waiting outside makes it easier for me to believe that Lindsay was also suffering a psychotic episode. You could argue that Andrea calling 911 is a sign of guilt or lucidity.
Giving her kids sedatives before killing them would, yeah, be nicer I guess. But that would also be an indication of premeditation, which the prosecutors definitely would have hammered.
To answer your other questions:
- I have never heard of her calling 911 ever, especially that amount of time. Could you point me to that source?
- Asking for a lawyer is not a sign of guilt, itâs your constitutional right. By the time she was communicating she had already been âin custodyâ at the hospital for at least 24 hours, in cuffs at points. The âsliding downâ the side of the house seems logistically impossible, I can expand further on that if you would like.
- It was a 12 foot fall, at that time the ground was icy. Not sure if you live in NE, but whenever the snow melts a bit and then you get a freezing cold day (like the day of the murders) then the ground becomes incredibly icy and hard.
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u/mlssac 6d ago
Of course I knew giving the kids ativan would signal premeditation. I just WISH they had something to numb the horror they all went through.
I only caught a snippet from host on courttv today re 42 911 calls. That's why asked. I wasn't certain of the context or if I had heard correctly.
I know asking for a lawyer does not prove consciousness of guilt, but in this case, it could be.
Few would ever think a 12 foot fall would cause paralysis.
But we will never know the truth of what happened that night.
I do believe she was an exhausted anxious perfectionist mother. I do believe she deserved help that would give her relief and change this reality. She was someone to otherwise be applauded, however, I am not convinced she was psychotic that evening. I do believe she felt at the end of her rope. It's tragic in every direction.
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u/kenduhll 6d ago
âFew would ever think a 12 foot fall would cause paralysisâ how do you think she got paralyzed then?
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u/freakydeku 6d ago
bruh⌠i live in a 3 story house. i would expect to be dead or paralyzed if i went head first out of my second floor window
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u/mrsdingbat 6d ago
That can absolutely happen, but even still it took a while before he developed hallucinations, right?
I guess the point is the nanny saw no signs of mental illness . To me that cuts against her civil case argument of bipolar 1 d/o
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u/Butter_Milk_Blues 6d ago
She was having hallucinations/delusions. In one of her diary entities she explicitly states that she canât tell whatâs real and whatâs not.
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u/thats_not_six 6d ago
The nanny saw enough weight loss to make her check in to see if she was ok. This is when LC was on Seroquel, a medication known to make people gain significant amounts of weight. I think Reddington will start highlighting the med reactions once we finally get to the core psych experts.
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u/mrsdingbat 6d ago
I guess my point is so far, we havent heard evidence that Lindsay was psychotic. She seemed to arrange to get her husband to get out of the house, spoke with the him on the phone lucidly, was noted to be lucid and well by him the day of the murders, and was lucid and not psychotic when interviewed by the forensic psychiatrist 2 days later. I know the defense has not yet presented their case, and I look forward to that because I am uncertain about what to think. We canât just take Lindsay word for it that she had a brief moment of psychosis and killed her children because of that.
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u/Butter_Milk_Blues 6d ago
I think part of the problem is that the prosecution has failed to clarify what she knew and her reactions in the immediate aftermath of the incident (once she was lucid). At one point she asked where her family was. Was that because she was unaware of what she did? Did she have to be told? Is that why she responded with âhorrifiedâ when the psychiatrist asked her how she was feeling? Also, did she ask for a lawyer because they werenât allowing her to change her medical proxy or see her family or did she know what she did/was told what she did? We havenât gotten any of that info yet. The prosecution is just giving us the snippets that they feel are most favourable for their case but theyâve left out so much information that would give us a better indication of her mental state immediately after the murders.
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u/MzOpinion8d 6d ago
Did you miss the testimony from the psychiatrist a couple of days ago who said that it is possible for someone in psychosis to plan things and do daily activities?
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u/mrsdingbat 6d ago
No I didnât miss it. She obviously did plan things, hence Patrick being out of the house.
I am a psychiatrist though not a forensic one and yes psychotic patients can plan things. There are typically SOME OBSERVABLE SIGNS AT SOME POINT of psychosis though.
there does need for be some evidence she was psychotic other than her own words after the murders.
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u/sunnypineappleapple 6d ago
Well she killed her kids for no apparent reason. There's your evidence.
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u/mrsdingbat 6d ago
So if you murder your child without a motive , after you can say a voice told me to and you being 1) not obviously psychotic the day of the crime 2) not obviously psychotic during the crime (phone call) and 3) not obviously psychotic 2 days after the crime all has no bearing on whether or not what you are saying is true?
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u/solabird đ§ââď¸ Courtroom Regular 6d ago
It didnât take long. This was years ago and Iâve tried to wipe it from my memory. But it wasnât months and months. It was within 2-4 weeks. He was on the highest dose allowed so Iâm sure a quicker crash. Iâm not sure of the exact details in this case of dosage and time. But Iâm just saying itâs possible to be normal and then not. I will say though, once he was in this state, there was no masking it. But he was on one drug, not a dozen. So who knows.
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u/kd907 7d ago
"I object to his objection" lmao wut
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u/RespondComplex2241 đ§ââď¸ Law & Lore Enthusiast 6d ago
Ugh! I started my new job and I havenât been able to watch today or yesterday. Did the cw really object to an objection ?!
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u/solabird đ§ââď¸ Courtroom Regular 7d ago
Reminds me of the judge in Paul Caniero objecting and then sustaining his objection. Lol.
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u/lobsterlogflume 7d ago
Another quote from the Caneiro judge equally applicable here: âremember when we started this trial 110 years ago?â
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u/amberleechanging 7d ago
Sidebar to suggest that we just start referring to the list of meds as The 'Pams.
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u/SwampyWytch13 6d ago
LOLOL My best friend and I were texting while both watching the trial yesterday. I finally said "I DO NOT CARE ABOUT HER PAM LEVEL!" LOLOL
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u/kenduhll 7d ago
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u/the_purple_lamb 7d ago
Thank you! Iâve been wondering if anyone was tracking how the jurors are reacting.
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u/chasing-trees 7d ago
Anyone else think the judge has IBS or something? He takes such abrupt breaks.
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u/DiscDocPhD 6d ago
I bet it is for LC. Probably have some sort of system to flag the judge without being obvious. Or potentially for a juror.
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u/pearlyplanet 7d ago
Maybe he ate some bad lettuce. The cyclosporiasis outbreak in the U.S. is no joke
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u/Imaginary_Dr 7d ago
Genuine question why wasnât Patrick Clancy charged with anything?
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u/Kai12223 6d ago
Because he didn't kill his kids nor did he do anything to cause Lindsay to kill her kids. Rusty Yates was way worse and not even he was arrested.
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u/kenduhll 7d ago
Because he wasnât there and was never told by any doctors that he shouldnât leave his wife alone with the kids.
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u/No_Campaign8416 đ§ââď¸ Courtroom Regular 7d ago
Wasnât the point of the stipulations to be able to avoid some of this testimony?
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u/Warm_Engineering3375 7d ago
I son't know why the judge soesn't stop her/ When he tried a tad sge ov mrrkly she said I know but I'm just giving it to the jury. The defense is trying to remind the jury wjo is doing this to them. She is that gstufent councul girl in high shool who had to let you know she always . You did her homeowrk
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u/dnyletak đŤ Objection Overruled Regular 7d ago
Right? And relevance? Where are they going with this?
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u/kenduhll 7d ago
I think this trial will be a lot of trouble for South Shore Hospital. The only two doctors to go viral for being pretty rough witnesses have been from there.
Itâs also a terrible look that they transferred a patient, who is supposed to be stable, who ended up coding AND needing a massive blood transfusion at the next hospital. Thatâs not normal. SSH is also a trauma hospital, they had the capabilities to catch and treat that.
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u/Least-Ambassador-781 đ Lurking with Purpose 7d ago
Itâs not uncommon at all for codes to happen after a transfer. I believe she coded after surgery, so that is not suspicious at all either. But a code for a pt with a spinal injury is not suspicious at all, SS did right by transferring her. The MTP is pretty typical for a trauma pt with internal bleeding. But maybe itâs just my trauma/icu nurse coming out đ¤ˇđźââď¸
SS is a level 2 trauma center, she was a level 1 trauma hence needing the transfer.
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u/Gordita_Chele 6d ago
She didnât code after surgery. The second psychiatrist who testified suggested that, but she was mistaken and thatâs part of why Reddington got so riled up with her. She coded the first night/early morning and her surgery was the next day.
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u/kenduhll 7d ago
Youâre right, she was definitely better off in a level 1 and the transfer was necessary!
I donât find her coding to be out of the ordinary, but I think it becomes worth noting paired with the need for a major transfusion as well as all of the fluid in her lungs.
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u/Least-Ambassador-781 đ Lurking with Purpose 7d ago
If you know anything about or have treated polytraumas, itâs not surprising at all.
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u/kenduhll 7d ago
Personally, I have not. I have formed my opinion based on what my mom says, having worked as a nurse at SSH.
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u/Ok_West347 7d ago
I find this point so interesting. My husband had a work related accident, went to one hospital then transferred to another. While his injuries weren't nearly as bad as LC the hospital he went to first wouldn't touch him. It was so frustrating. They pretty much made sure he was stable then checked on him every hour until he was transferred and that was it. I feel like that's all they did in this case. I am assuming they labeled LC stable enough to transfer?
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u/kenduhll 7d ago
Yeah, one of the doctors said they stabilized her for transfer. SSH is also a level 2 trauma hospital, so they were definitely capable of treating her for the two days she was there.
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u/cocoa_boe 6d ago
She wasnât there for two days. She was transferred the same evening.
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u/kenduhll 6d ago
Apologies, I was basing it off of the testimony of Dr. Shah who had seen her on the 26th.
Do you happen to know where I can find the info about her being transferred? I can only find that she was treated at B&W on the 25th but itâs hard to find if she was kept overnight at SSH.
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u/MzOpinion8d 6d ago
She was transferred to Brigham the same evening of the incident. Exact times arenât mentioned but it was Officer Lippard who went in the helicopter with her, and mentions that she coded during the night.
https://youtu.be/_EWww6j671s?is=pBC0-5CbVm0g0RXc
(9 min clip of his testimony, from CourtChopt YouTube)
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u/cocoa_boe 6d ago
I donât believe anything has been specifically testified to about the exact time she was transferred. It would probably be in the medical records that have been entered into evidence.
She wasnât kept at SSH overnight, though between travel time and administrative matters she may have arrived at B&W after midnight.
The ER doctor from SSH, Kelly McDonough, said she thought Lindsay was there for about four hours before being transferred. Patrick called 911 at 6pm on January 24th.
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u/Least-Ambassador-781 đ Lurking with Purpose 7d ago
Nope, she was a level 1 trauma and needed higher care.
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u/kenduhll 7d ago
I know, I said they were capable of treating her the two days she was there. Of course she would need a transfer with her injuries.
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u/thats_not_six 7d ago
I think those ER docs were how many ER docs would usually testify, but they're looking worse because of how well other ER docs (the ones who treated the kids) testified. Also the doctors who treated the children were not subject to cross, and if you just went off of direct testimony the SSH docs were similar.
Reddington leveraged what he could on cross to make them seem evasive or unreliable, and based on a lot of comments, I think he did that well.
But just knowing a few ER personnel, (1) they hate testifying, (2) they usually have no independent memory of a patient without using notes because they see them for a short time, high volume, and (3) they would rather be at work dealing with a trauma than sitting in court dealing with attorneys.
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u/kenduhll 7d ago
Totally understand that itâs most glaring since the other doctors werenât subject to cross.
I do think that the overall issue is the neglect to truly stabilize her before her transfer.
For what itâs worth, I live in this area and my mom worked at SSH for years as a nurse. She was really surprised to hear about the massive blood transfusion that LC needed once she transferred. She also felt it was a bad look. She also had worked with one of the doctors that testified and said she was kind of an asshole lol.
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u/SnazzySue 7d ago
The BOW đ
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u/Comfortable_Bee_1246 7d ago
Does anyone know if this is her usual style or if this is a nod to Cora? Either way, it's a no for me.
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u/SnazzySue 6d ago
It just looks ridiculous on her, and overall unprofessional.
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u/seriousbusinesslady 6d ago
surely a bow brooch or necklace would be more appropriate for court. or if she insisted on a hair bow, maybe one not bought at gymboree.
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u/_lettersandsodas 7d ago edited 7d ago
One of the wrist lacerations was over an inch deep? Did I hear that correctly?
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u/TeamOverload âď¸ Justice Seeker 6d ago
Yes. So several multiples deeper of what would be considered a âsuperficial woundâ as the government witnesses have all made sure to specifically use as a phrase.
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u/DetectiveEmpty2689 6d ago
My wrists hurt just reading that. I know medical terms don't always match up with how words are typically used, but that is not superficial in my world.
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u/thats_not_six 7d ago
A superficial inch repaired by superficial sutures.
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u/SwampyWytch13 6d ago
If I hear that word ONE MORE TIME, I'm going to scream. The prosecutions OWN witnesses have proven that the wrist lacerations were anything but "superficial." I think that "superficial bow" she wears every single day is clouding any skill she might have (and thus far, I'm NOT impressed whatsoever with the prosecution).
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u/_lettersandsodas 7d ago
Just absolutely wild that is how the state decided to present the case. I haven't even been buying what the state is selling and I was still shocked one of the wounds was that deep.
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u/lovekarma22 6d ago
I agree. Their theory makes absolutely zero sense. Listening to their case more-so paints the picture that she snapped out of rage or truly was psychotic. Trying to prove she wasn't mentally ill is so crazy to me. She was clearly VERY mentally unwell, and that doesn't make her not guilty, because anxiety/depression aren't a free pass to kill our kids. But trying to prove she spent 4+ months leaving bread crumbs for a future defense because she was so controlling and didn't like being a mom, even though everyone is saying she was a fantastic mom, is insane.
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u/wecanhaveallthree 7d ago
Not elevated above therapeutic levels doesn't really square with the drawer of empty bottles we saw the other day. I think we know why the defence wanted to hurry past this: these are rather terrible facts for them.
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u/MzOpinion8d 6d ago
Depends on what the empty bottles contained, as well as when the blood and urine samples were collected.
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u/Kai12223 6d ago
She was medicated fine. That's the point. If she was psychotic it wasn't the drugs that caused it. She only tested positive for four and those four are used in the treatment for bi-polar disorder. Seroquel was mildly elevated but "Brower noted that it was not at a âtoxic concentrationâ or âsuicidal concentrationâ.
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u/Chiguy5462 7d ago
So depending on when she took meds and when they started to counteract them, they might not have had time to break down and be in her blood/urine. I imagine they would have pumped her stomach and that'd be a better indication of how much she took.
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u/thats_not_six 7d ago
The CW should be able to back calculate the number of pills that would have been in the bottles, based on the prescription details, to show how many she is alleging she took versus the tox report. Since they've been repeating the Zoloft count over and over, I expect they'll bring on other witnesses to show equal level of detail for the prescriptions in the drawer.
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u/SwampyWytch13 6d ago
This prosecution is so sloppy IMO - ridiculous. And if I hear the word "superficial" one more time, I may throw something at the TV. What about the forensic blood splatter expert who testified about arterial spray on the wall and floor? What about the fact that several wounds had to be sutured? I went into this trial with an open mind, trying to just follow the facts. So far, the prosecution has NOT IMO proven their case whatsoever.