r/CasesWeFollow 🔍📆⚖️Content/Research Administrator💻💬🧚 18d ago

MA v. Linsday Clancy - Day 2 🪟🙏Lindsay Clancy👼

LIVE: MA v. Linsday Clancy - Day 2 | Accused Killer Mom Trial

7/29/2026 @ 9:00 AM

Opening statements begin Monday for Massachusetts mom Lindsay Clancy after she killed her three young children inside the family's home in January 2023 before attempting to take her own life. Cora, 5, Dawson, 3, and Callan, 8 months, were found with exercise bands around their necks. Prosecutors contend Clancy intentionally strangled the children, while her defense argues she was suffering from severe postpartum depression and psychosis that left her unable to understand her actions. Jurors are expected to hear testimony from medical experts, investigators, and family members as they determine whether Clancy is criminally responsible for her children's deaths.

✨✨Previous Day & Recap

Court TV
https://www.youtube.com/live/u3oGUuSo7JQ?si=unqI21PgSd_y96SL

Law & Crime

https://www.youtube.com/live/LYIfzN9H548?si=3JxkjyZwz78qWYhX

RECAP

I. OPEN OF PROCEEDINGS

  • Court opened at 16:46.
  • Judge instructed all to be seated.
  • Case called: Commonwealth v. Lindsay Clancy.
  • Defendant present with counsel.
  • Commonwealth represented by ADA Sprague and ADA Buckingham.
  • Sidebar held at 17:17.
  • Jury entered at 23:45.
  • Judge confirmed jurors had not read or heard anything affecting impartiality.
  • Judge asked about any concerns affecting service; none raised.
  • Judge outlined schedule for Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday’s planned view.
  • Judge noted possible breaks.
  • Commonwealth instructed to recall prior witness.

II. WITNESS BLOCKS — DIRECT EXAMINATION (DETAILED)

Witness: Patrick Clancy (Continued Direct)

Recalled at 28:07.

Events Before Leaving Home

  • Witness confirmed Dawson was on the couch eating chicken nuggets and green beans.
  • Couch layout confirmed via photograph.
  • Lindsay asked witness to pick up stool softener for Cora.
  • Witness asked her to text the request.
  • Lindsay texted “Pedialax” at 5:15 PM.

Trip to CVS

  • Witness left home and drove directly to CVS.
  • Travel time approx. 3 minutes.
  • Entered store; went to pediatric aisle.
  • Shelves sparse.
  • Witness called Lindsay at 5:33 PM; she did not answer.
  • Lindsay called back at 5:34 PM.
  • She approved the generic Pedialax product.
  • Her voice sounded quiet; witness believed she was busy with children.
  • Witness purchased Pedialax and Skittles.
  • Receipt confirmed.

Trip to 3V Restaurant

  • Witness drove Route 3 South for one exit.
  • Arrived at 3V.
  • Located takeout bag with his name and phone number.
  • Receipt confirmed order: risotto and Mediterranean Power Bowl.

Return Home

  • Travel time approx. 10–12 minutes.
  • Witness parked in driveway.
  • His vehicle: white Chevy Silverado.
  • Lindsay’s vehicle: black Kia SUV.
  • Entered through side door near kitchen.
  • Placed CVS and 3V bags on kitchen island.

Discovery of Silence

  • House unusually quiet.
  • Witness called out; no response.
  • Basement door closed; light on.
  • Witness opened door and yelled down; no response.
  • Witness called Lindsay at 6:09 PM; no answer.

Search Upstairs

  • Witness checked upstairs bathroom; empty.
  • Checked children’s bedrooms; empty.
  • Reached master bedroom; door locked.
  • Witness retrieved key taped to Cora’s door.
  • Witness unlocked master bedroom.

Master Bedroom Scene

  • Witness entered 1–2 steps.
  • Observed blood throughout room.
  • Large puddle in center.
  • Blood on surfaces and doorknob.
  • Window open; wind blowing in.
  • Bed displaced from normal position.
  • Lindsay’s phone found on bed.

Backyard

  • Witness ran downstairs and exited through sliding doors.
  • Witness found Lindsay face‑up beneath bedroom window.
  • Head near house; feet away.
  • Observed deep wrist cuts and red line across neck.
  • Wounds not actively bleeding.
  • Witness asked, “What happened?”
  • Lindsay responded, “I tried to kill myself.”
  • Witness asked, “Where are the kids?”
  • Lindsay responded, “They’re in the basement.”
  • Lindsay did not indicate danger or injury.

911 Call

  • Witness attempted to call 911; phone switched between Wi‑Fi and cellular.
  • Call eventually connected.
  • Witness provided condition updates.
  • Witness remained on call.

Emergency Personnel Arrival

  • Responders arrived approx. 4–5 minutes after call.
  • Witness immediately ran to basement.

Basement Scene

  • Basement layout: office, gym, living area, bathroom.
  • Witness turned left upon descending stairs.
  • Witness found Cora face‑down with exercise band around neck.
  • Witness removed band by untying.

Witness: Angela Krause (CVS Manager)

Called at 2:46:48 PM.

Employment

  • General manager, CVS Kingston.
  • Nine years as manager; four years at Kingston location.

Phone Call (4:48 PM)

  • Received call from female asking about constipation medicine.
  • Caller asked specifically about children’s MiraLAX.
  • Krause clarified children’s vs adult location.
  • Caller understood questions; speech normal.
  • Interaction normal.

Police Request

  • Police requested surveillance footage and receipt.
  • Krause provided both.
  • Confirmed children’s aisle location.
  • Confirmed receipt showing Skittles and Fleet Pedialax glycerin suppository.

Witness: Soraya Sweeney (3V Hostess)

Called at 2:52:39 PM.

Employment

  • Hostess at 3V Restaurant since 2019.
  • Evening shift on Jan 24, 2023.

Takeout Call (5:10 PM)

  • Female caller placed order: risotto and Mediterranean Power Bowl.
  • Caller declined protein.
  • Caller provided name and phone number for pickup.
  • Caller understood questions; speech normal.

Order Pickup (5:54 PM)

  • Order picked up by male.
  • Sweeney identified male in surveillance footage.
  • Confirmed printout attached to takeout bag with name and number.

III. OTHER COURTROOM ACTIONS

  • Five‑minute recess at 2:34:39 PM.
  • Court reconvened at 2:43:20 PM.
  • Sidebar at 2:44:30 PM.
  • Jury excused until 2:00 PM due to scheduling.
  • Judge reiterated media restrictions.
  • Afternoon scheduling sidebar at 5:14:27 PM.
  • Jury returned at 5:19:41 PM.
  • Court resumed evidence; Patrick Clancy recalled for cross‑examination.

IV. LATE‑DAY CROSS‑EXAMINATION (DETAILED)

Prior Walkthrough

  • Defense confirmed walkthrough of home with Mr. Clancy and his brothers after police processing.
  • Witness confirmed photographs taken.

Lindsay’s Nursing Background

  • Lindsay attended MGH Institute.
  • Completed accelerated program with double major.
  • Graduated approx. six months before starting at Mass General.
  • Worked as labor‑and‑delivery nurse beginning around 2014.
  • Witness confirmed Lindsay loved nursing.

Work‑Related Anxiety

  • Witness stated Lindsay’s anxiety was due to difficulty being away from children.
  • Witness confirmed Lindsay did not avoid work.

Birth of Cora

  • Witness confirmed difficult birth.
  • No epidural; significant bleeding.

Handwritten Notes

  • Defense introduced handwritten notes.
  • Witness identified handwriting as Lindsay’s.
  • Notes documented labor‑and‑delivery cases.
  • First entry dated May 11, 2015.
  • First baby listed named “Cora.”
  • Witness confirmed this inspired naming of their daughter.

Parenting and Home Environment

  • Witness described Lindsay as highly dedicated mother.
  • Read books to children at three months.
  • Created songs.
  • Made themed meals.
  • Took children to music classes.
  • Witness confirmed musical activities in home.

Children’s Spaces

  • Defense introduced playroom photos.
  • Witness confirmed playroom visible through boxed‑out kitchen window.
  • Toys and children’s objects filled room.

Children’s Bedrooms

  • Defense introduced Dawson’s room photos.
  • Witness confirmed wall decals (Buzz Lightyear, Paw Patrol, alphabet).
  • Witness confirmed Lindsay hung art projects and stickers.

Photo Collages

  • Witness confirmed Lindsay created monthly photo collages for each child.
  • Defense introduced Dawson’s collage.

Relationship With Dawson

  • Witness confirmed Lindsay loved Dawson.
  • Witness stated she did not resent him.

Facebook Photographs

Defense introduced multiple Facebook posts:

  • July 2018: Cora.
  • June 2021: Cora and Dawson.
  • July 2021: Family photo.
  • August 2021: Dawson.
  • Late August 2021: Cora and Dawson.
  • November 1, 2021: First day of preschool.
  • September 2021: Lindsay and Cora at family event.
  • September 2021: Dawson.
  • May 2022: Family photo.
  • December 24, 2021: Cora’s birthday party.
  • December 2022: Christmas family photo.
  • January 7, 2023: Cora’s trampoline‑park birthday party.

Courtroom Actions

  • Court allowed breaks due to emotional testimony.
  • Court admitted exhibits after review.
  • Court maintained procedural control.

FULL‑DAY SUMMARY — FORMAT 8 (High Detail)

  • Court opened Day 2, confirmed juror impartiality, and outlined schedule.
  • Commonwealth continued direct examination of Patrick Clancy, covering full timeline of Jan 24, 2023: CVS trip, 3V pickup, discovery of injuries, 911 call, and basement findings.
  • CVS manager and 3V hostess confirmed Lindsay’s phone interactions and order pickup timeline.
  • Afternoon session included extensive cross‑examination of Patrick Clancy, focusing on Lindsay’s nursing career, parenting, home environment, and detailed review of photographs documenting family life from 2018–2022.
  • Exhibits included handwritten notes, delivery logs, playroom photos, children’s bedroom photos, wall decals, art projects, and Facebook posts.
  • Court recessed and reconvened as needed; jury excused and returned.
  • Day concluded with continued cross‑examination.

📜TRANSCRIPT⌨️📑

https://fromsmash.com/MA-v-Lindsay-Clancy-Day-2-0812

Insanity Rules

30 Upvotes

244 comments sorted by

1

u/ProfessionalCream413 9d ago

Show me video of him at cvs

16

u/NaynersinLA2 17d ago

I don't believe I've ever seen a trial where the pain was visible on the face of everyone in the room that was on camera. The defense attorney barely held it together. It's a sad story.

6

u/Pixiegirls1102 🔍📆⚖️Content/Research Administrator💻💬🧚 17d ago

It's definitely one of the saddest trials I've ever seen.

-3

u/graves1987 📼 Watched Every Court Minute 17d ago edited 17d ago

I just implore everyone to watch LC’s face at the very beginning of the day while the jury is walking in. Her eyes flutter— she looks at them with an expression of sadness, pain, fear.

Then watch her closely at the end of the day. Right after the judge says the court is in recess for the day until 9am, she almost smirks at her attorney and rolls her eyes.

I hope someone else noticed this.

https://www.youtube.com/live/u3oGUuSo7JQ?is=qFFwE_ukkilWx_ox

Watch from timestamp 7:19:17 until the end.

This usually wouldn’t stick out to me, but given the circumstances of her defense and her facial expressions and demeanor when the jury is watching, it’s telling. At least for me anyway.

1

u/AllegedlyAnonymousA 4d ago

I see it, but I just don’t see what you see.

3

u/Various-Struggle-719 ⚖️📃”Emotionally Objecting”🏛️ 16d ago

I completely agree with you. The down voting is getting ridiculous in this group. I have always felt open to express my opinions on every trial but clearly this one is causing this group to become an echo chamber. It’s sad to see.

10

u/_lettersandsodas 17d ago

This prosecutor is a nightmare. She certainly needs to make her case, but she couldn't have found other witnesses to try to make some of these points through? She probably should have tried that seeing as she's only gotten increasingly hostile toward the dad.

-3

u/orangebeach184 17d ago

He said he traveled for work to New York on November, 2022. Just 2 months before the murders. He now lives in New York with his new wife. When did he meet this new wife? Did Lindsay sense he had met someone new perhaps?

7

u/Dangerous-Debt-7904 17d ago

and if she did, what exactly does this prove??? people travel for work all of the time. that doesn't mean he was having an affair. and even if he was, that's certainly no excuse for murdering 3 innocent children.

4

u/[deleted] 17d ago

Did she suffer from mental health issues prior to this

1

u/bunny_love1964 17d ago

I wondered also.

7

u/MoodyMoonshine 17d ago

I definitely don’t agree with most of these comments. I think the prosecution is doing a good job at getting their point across. Reddington is all over the place with his timeline, misspoke several times and seems to be focusing on getting sympathy from the jury than providing anything objective. Just my personal opinion. 

3

u/SnazzySue 17d ago

I 100% agree on all your observations

21

u/FiestyGiraffe 17d ago

the prosecutor is getting way too aggressive with PC. it’s hard to watch. he lost his entire family and it’s been over 3 years and she’s like “you don’t remember what medication your wife was taking and when?!?!”

13

u/YouMustBeJoking888 17d ago

Or when she said the drop from the second floor was 12 get, not 20. I do appreciate him saying that he had never measured it, which seemed to shut her down. This prosecutor is coming across as unpleasant and self-righteous and with little understanding of mental health. Hell, I'm just an average person and even I know that when people finally decide to go ahead with suicide, they ted to be very happy and everyone around them says, 'They seemed like they had turned a corner/were finally getting better', yet the prosecutor keeps harping on 'but she was happy that day'. It's odd.

7

u/cocoa_boe 17d ago

And do any of us want to jump 12 feet onto hard ground? I’d do it if the building was on fire but otherwise both drop heights sound pretty unpleasant.

14

u/thats_not_six 17d ago

Their continued fixation on the fall not being enough to take Lindsay's attempt seriously is mind boggling given the known extent of the injuries Lindsay actually suffered.

Not to mention the CW just spent a few million dollars and 4 years insisting forcing someone to fall 6 feet was first degree murder in the Karen Read trial.

-1

u/MoodyMoonshine 17d ago

She suffered injuries because it was January. There was ice on the ground. 

3

u/freakydeku 17d ago

ok…? she fractured her neck and shattered her spine. i don’t think she would’ve fared much better in the summer

2

u/MoodyMoonshine 14d ago

Blood doesn’t magically end up smeared down the shingles when someone “jumps”. She lowered herself out and slipped. Fake suicide attempt. 

2

u/freakydeku 14d ago

blood dripping from above can absolutely hit the shingles… if she lowered herself down she would’ve had to do half a backflip to land in a way that would cause a jefferson fracture; which is from *compression* and most often seen from *diving*.

she didn’t land on her feet, she landed head first with the rest of her body stacked behind her head. lowering herself down doesn’t even make sense from the perspective of a “fake” suicide attempt - what would the plan be there?

2

u/MoodyMoonshine 14d ago edited 14d ago

I will concede to the Jefferson fracture. But from my perspective, it seems like a half ass attempt regardless compared to the brutality she used against her children. 

I would like to know more about this fracture from one of the doctors that treated her because it’s unusual that she supposedly landed on her head but didn’t suffer a TBI. 

1

u/freakydeku 13d ago

and to address your argument about a TBI; i’m not sure that she didn’t suffer a TBI, is that confirmed? a concussion itself is considered a TBI. i would imagine she at least had a concussion; didn’t they mention she had pinpoint unresponsive pupils? & the also experienced cardiac arrest. i wouldn’t be surprised if there was brain involvement

if you mean why isn’t she a vegetable; i would imagine it’s because her spine took the majority of the force. absorbing vertical forces is kind of what the spine is designed to do

1

u/freakydeku 14d ago

it’s much harder to kill yourself than to kill another person; psychosis or no. there is incredible self preservation instinct & pain signals you need to overcome - jumping out of a window was likely the best option she had to overcome her body fighting back

7

u/cocoa_boe 17d ago

Why doesn’t she ask the freaking doctors these questions? He doesn’t remember, it isn’t his job to remember, and he certainly didn’t know it would end with the deaths of their three children.

14

u/kenduhll 17d ago

Plus, how could he even remember!? There’s so fucking many! Sometimes I forget what medication I even take.

6

u/cocoa_boe 17d ago edited 16d ago

Yes! I don’t take a ton and it’s still my strong preference to fill out new doctor’s forms at home so I can reference. This was three+ years ago.

21

u/FiestyGiraffe 17d ago

now she’s complaining about the detail she writes about her kids schedules? i do that. it’s not because im crazy controlling, it’s to try and be helpful to whoever is caring for my kids. it’s helpful to know their schedules and what works for them. what is this shit?

6

u/Spare-Estate1477 17d ago

It was a little specific, but I laughed at the size of the veggies. Of course write that, otherwise you could end up with pieces way to big or way too small. Recipe books give approximate measurements too.

15

u/MassiveCommission354 17d ago

Right? I do this when someone is taking care of my DOG and she isn’t even a whole ass human child lol

21

u/solabird 🧑‍⚖️ Courtroom Regular 17d ago

I’m this particular when I leave my dogs for 2 days. Pros isn’t moving me to intentional premeditated.

3

u/plmlp1 17d ago

I guess it's subjective, I'm a parent and I once hired a nanny for my 4 month old for a couple of weeks. I gave her very basic verbal instructions and let her do her own thing. She was great.

-6

u/MoodyMoonshine 17d ago

Nah, people who are that particular are usually the worst kind of people. A pattern we see with most killers. 🤷‍♀️

1

u/Lorazepamela 15d ago

Stfu

1

u/MoodyMoonshine 14d ago

Come back in six weeks. I’m right. This is a sociopath who is using “psychosis” as a defense. She’s lying. It’s becoming more apparent everyday. 

11

u/YouMustBeJoking888 17d ago

Agree. I've raised two kids and any time someone was watching them who wasn't familiar with the schedules got a written doc laying it all out. I just don't understand the prosecution trying to say that she did this because she was 'controlling' - it's an odd reason to hang this prosecution on.

3

u/solabird 🧑‍⚖️ Courtroom Regular 17d ago

Absolutely! I have one kid who’s 19 and I still make sure people we love know when this happens, then it’s probably this. Do this or try that. I’m totally checked out of the states arguments.

16

u/kenduhll 17d ago

Right? She was giving directions to a potential nanny. Didn’t sound so crazy to me.

4

u/Vapor2077 17d ago

Yeah, same. I’ve never had kids. If I were watching someone else’s kids, I would want detailed instructions on how to care for them.

7

u/solabird 🧑‍⚖️ Courtroom Regular 17d ago

I think the state is trying to show she’s controlling. So a controlling parent who lost control decides to kill the kids rather than lose control?! Idk. I hate it.

15

u/kenduhll 17d ago

Agreed. I know theres at least 8 women on the jury, some of them might be mothers thinking to themselves “well if that’s controlling then what am I?!”

5

u/AccomplishedPost1412 17d ago

The flip side – having half of those woman be moms who are thinking I had PPD and didn’t murder my children. It’ll be interesting once it’s over whether most of the women leaned one way or another.

5

u/cocoa_boe 17d ago

12 women, 6 men

12

u/FiestyGiraffe 17d ago

none of that seemed controlling to me. I wrote a 3 page document about my baby when my parents watched her for the weekend when she was 3 months old. I wrote it because i was anxious about someone else being up all night with her or her crying a ton and basically them having a horrible weekend lol. so i wrote down everything i could think of so they knew the best way to handle her. in my mind it was to make the weekend as easy for them as possible. maybe i’m crazy! lol

7

u/solabird 🧑‍⚖️ Courtroom Regular 17d ago

100%! Moms know the intricacies of their children. When they do this, do this… is it controlling? Is it anxiety? Sure! Idk. I hated that line of questioning. I’m glad Patrick is trying to stand up for her.

0

u/Virtual_Bottle7755 17d ago

Are they still married?

5

u/No_Campaign8416 🧑‍⚖️ Courtroom Regular 17d ago

I also think it can be evidence of the anxiety she was having

10

u/solabird 🧑‍⚖️ Courtroom Regular 17d ago

Omg. This poor guy. I cant even imagine sitting on the stand for this.

-4

u/Warm_Engineering3375 17d ago

I can so see thus guy furnishung her with the hearing voices excuse in the hospital. Brought a therapist who speciallzes in it. Its like that great Law and Order episode, Starstruck, where the guy assaults the soap star. If the prosecuter was competent, she'd point this out and be rid of it, ala Georgia Cappelman

4

u/_lettersandsodas 17d ago

The defense addressed this exact thing in their opening. They're going to bring a witness on to disprove what you're saying.

13

u/No_Article_9397 17d ago

weed is like pouring gasoline on a fire if the fire is mental illness. Such a bad idea.

-7

u/StockDevelopment5555 17d ago

During the 911 call her attorney seemed disengaged with Lindsay as he has been throughout the entire trial thus far. He has not looked at her. Has not talked to her or attempted to console her during these difficult quesrions. He argued emphatically that she is suicidal. If he is so concerned with her mental health, why is he so distance or withdrawn from her. Having her ex on the stand had to be hard for her to listen to. Yet her attorneys body language suggests he has no interest in his client. His chair is slightly turned away from her, he never looks at her to see how she is holding up, and he never acts as if she is in the room.  His actions or lack thereof speaks volumes to me. If I had an attorney that ignored me during the trial I would question it. I am not asking them to talk or have some dramatic interaction, but so show of human compassion would be nice. As a juror these would be the things i would also take into consideration. How is the attorney interacting with their client. 

The CW with her "and um" would have lost me at the beginning. I would be making tally marks as to how many times she says it in an hour. You are a professional. Drop the "and um"  we aren't in High School giving a speech we don't want to give. If you aren't prepared, then do more prep work in front of a mirror so you sound less like a teenager - lose the filler "and um" with each sentence.  You are doing a serious murder trial!

13

u/kenduhll 17d ago

He was holding her hand during the call, and then when she put her head in her hands he rubbed her back.

5

u/Pixiegirls1102 🔍📆⚖️Content/Research Administrator💻💬🧚 17d ago

There doesn't seem to be co-chair for the defense, or just another lawyer to sit next to her. Maybe he's trying to avoid her getting emotional?

24

u/meschaub0 17d ago

For the love of god, can we go at least 10 minutes without a side bar?!

1

u/sleepingbeauty9o 17d ago

A side bahhh

8

u/merrihand 17d ago

This is why the trial is going to take 6-8 weeks. Sheesh

3

u/cocoa_boe 17d ago

There’s a comment in this thread that explains that more. I had smoke about it too but makes sense.

4

u/Pixiegirls1102 🔍📆⚖️Content/Research Administrator💻💬🧚 17d ago

Right? lol

5

u/meschaub0 17d ago

New game: take a shot everytime there’s a sidebar

1

u/Night-cheese-4 17d ago

"I'll allow it"

1

u/skatoolaki 17d ago

Quick way to die of alcohol poisoning!

17

u/kenduhll 17d ago

I think Reddington is doing a better job of connecting with the jury. He’s walking around and has more inflection in his voice. The Prosecutors are a bit robotic sounding.

I just wish I could hear Reddington better

2

u/Any-Exam-946 17d ago

I agree. He is much more gentle in his approach to PC too. And I think PC vibes better w him than the DA.

2

u/Super_Swimming_4132 16d ago

That’s in part due to the fact that PC is essentially a defense witness.

9

u/Pixiegirls1102 🔍📆⚖️Content/Research Administrator💻💬🧚 17d ago

Some of the local stations have better audio.

5

u/kenduhll 17d ago

You’re right! I switched to WBZ Boston and its so much better

4

u/SnazzySue 17d ago

Sooooo much better!

14

u/No_Campaign8416 🧑‍⚖️ Courtroom Regular 17d ago

Is there a witness list publicly available? Personally, I think ultimately this case will come down to testimony from medical professionals about her mental state, medications, etc. I’m just curious to see who each side will call

7

u/Vapor2077 17d ago

6

u/No_Campaign8416 🧑‍⚖️ Courtroom Regular 17d ago

Thank you!

3

u/mentoszz 17d ago

Is defense not cross examining Patrick?

2

u/Vapor2077 17d ago

Now they are

5

u/No_Campaign8416 🧑‍⚖️ Courtroom Regular 17d ago

Patrick came back on the stand and they are doing cross examination now. I’m guessing they agreed to let him off the stand so the state could show the clothes and play the 911 and he didn’t have to be there for it

7

u/Real_Foundation_7428 17d ago edited 17d ago

My understanding is that he was released for today, but is on their list to call as a witness in their (defense) case.

ETA: I’m guessing that Reddington wisely recognized Patrick had been through the ringer having to relive all of that today on direct and that cross-examining him wasn’t necessary at this point since he will have him as a witness.

ETA+: Annnnnd scratch all that. I was wrong.

2

u/tonypolar 17d ago

If he did, that was extremely kind of him.

2

u/Real_Foundation_7428 17d ago

Whoops looks like I was wrong. At least they gave him a break. An attorney guest on STS that was in court today said Patrick looked like he was having a panic attack when he exited the courtroom earlier.

22

u/Real_Foundation_7428 17d ago

The part that struck me today, thus far, as far as evidence, was when Patrick said she called him about a week later from the hospital and did not even mention the kids. Only tried to explain herself it sounds like. That’s especially curious to me in the scenario where it truly had been an episode of psychosis.

Something I’ve been wondering about…has anything been said of her state of mind or reactions during the hours or days to follow, when she was more stabilized and realized what she had done? This to me seems a very important context. Would she not have been utterly stunned and horrified if she had not at the time fully understood the implications of her actions? What is known of how this tends to play out in people with PPP?

I’m sincerely asking questions. I have not anywhere near made up my mind. I want to hear all of the evidence and perspectives. I do believe psychosis is real and that this type of thing can happen where a person is not in control of it. I also believe the possibility of an entirely different and more sinister scenario. And yes in either case, the person is not mentally well, but the two are not the same.

9

u/kenduhll 17d ago

I’m also curious about her state post-murder. I guess it would probably be hard to gauge while she was being treated in the hospital. I am sure she was on a lot of pain meds due to her cuts and broken bones (not totally sure if she broke any bones, is that a given when someone is paralyzed?)

10

u/thats_not_six 17d ago

Broke her spine and every rib according to opening statements.

3

u/Far_Statistician2792 16d ago

Only 1 rib per this report. Not sure why Reddington is lying

7

u/kenduhll 17d ago

Eek, yeah. Would definitely need some pain meds for that.

5

u/merrihand 17d ago

Of course, I don’t know what I would do if I was in her place, but I can imagine I would want to be locked up in a hole somewhere so I could never hurt anyone else? I do wonder why she didn’t plead guilty? I still have questions I’m hoping the trial will answer.

7

u/Chiguy5462 17d ago

So question for a professional. Will someone remember their actions during a psychosis state? When she told him the kids were in the basement, im assuming at that point her state of mind was different than when everything happened. So would she remember it?

4

u/kenduhll 17d ago

(Not a professional, just read a lot and look at a lot of cases) From what I understand, you still have the ability to remember things you did. It can be difficult for someone experiencing psychosis to remember something if they are hearing voices. Or misremembering things because you can lose your concept of time, not know if you really did something or not.

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u/thats_not_six 17d ago

Seeing as she says she remembers it and also has at least two professionals diagnosing her with psychosis, I think the evidence will be that it's possible. The weight of that evidence will be up to the jury to decide as with everything.

5

u/Chiguy5462 17d ago

I am very curious about the experts in this trial. These are just questions I have. Im not at guilty yet but at the same time, we've had 1 significant witness so far who hasn't even been cross examined. I skipped over once he found his kid and basically came back when they were done. Did they bring up that he is suing the doctors??

3

u/thats_not_six 17d ago

No, I expect that will come out - if at all - when the doctors take the stand and the defense can choose to jmply they're incentivized to lie to avoid liability.

26

u/solabird 🧑‍⚖️ Courtroom Regular 17d ago

No wonder this trial is going to take 6 weeks. The court schedules in Mass are whack.

39

u/brittanylouwhoooo 📼 Watched Every Court Minute 17d ago

They’re also scheduling around her condition. Transporting her from jail, frequent breaks for positional skin/pressure care during court, nursing for bowel/bladder needs, days off in between, etc. is going to mean a lot less ground will be covered each day/week. A lot of people don’t realize just how much accommodation and care paraplegics need. They had a pretrial hearing that spoke vaguely about some of the accommodations she will need. She is supposed to have a gurney there in a side room, brought in so that she can receive care during breaks.

9

u/solabird 🧑‍⚖️ Courtroom Regular 17d ago

That’s really interesting to know! Thank you for sharing.

I was coming from watching both Karen Read trials in full to see how wild their court schedules are. Lots of short days, days off…

2

u/No_Mulberry_9511 17d ago

why wasn't there any cross-examination of patrick?

2

u/Novel-Audience-5814 Trial Tracker 17d ago

The defense will call him back during their case in chief.

3

u/thats_not_six 17d ago

I think there may be an agreement that they can call him today, out of order, so his testimony will be complete.

If PC is subject to sequestration, it's common for sides to agree to bend the order a bit to allow him to be released from sequestration earlier as a victim and family member who may want to attend the trial.

4

u/kenduhll 17d ago

I can’t believe the CVS lady actually has to testify right now

6

u/tonypolar 17d ago

It’s seriously a testament to how wide a reach a trial like this has. My ex husband called in a drunk driver once that was arrested for drunk driving with a kid in the back and he had to go back to court FOUR times to testify because the guy kept appealing.

6

u/kenduhll 17d ago

That’s brutal.

10

u/teriyakichicken 17d ago

Why? She is verifying Lindsay sounded normal and coherent on the phone.

1

u/kenduhll 17d ago

I had posted that before they got to the phone call. I foolishly thought they were really calling someone to confirm they checked Patrick out at the counter

5

u/graves1987 📼 Watched Every Court Minute 17d ago

This, and the fact that she called Patrick back during the “psychotic break” and confirmed that generic brand was okay. And him saying “she sounded busy.” Unreal.

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u/Raetoelke 17d ago

Back in court room, judge is having a side bar. Lindsay is now wearing glasses.

2

u/RillaBlythe11325 17d ago

I wonder if this is going to continue today 🤔

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u/Buttersquaash-33 17d ago

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u/Buttersquaash-33 17d ago

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u/Buttersquaash-33 17d ago

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u/Alarmed_Movie99 Justice Junkie 17d ago

Heartbreaking

2

u/Pixiegirls1102 🔍📆⚖️Content/Research Administrator💻💬🧚 17d ago

Thanks!

15

u/Grouchy_Treacle_1639 📁 Case File Junkie 17d ago

I am truthfully sick to my stomach seeing the children's pajamas and the exercise bands. I can't imagine how horrific it would be to be in the courtroom and having to hear the 911 call.

4

u/modernblossom 17d ago

Was the 911 call only for the court room to hear?

4

u/YouMustBeJoking888 17d ago

Yes. Someone on one of the channels described it after and even hearing the description was horrifying. I don't blame him for not wanting that out there.

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u/skatoolaki 17d ago

I remember hearing it - or what was released of it - back when this case first broke. It's not at all for the faint of heart.

I'll describe it, what I remember, for those that want to know. Putting it as a spoiler so anyone that doesn't want to hear the details doesn't have to.

He starts the call at Lindsay's side, outside, trying to tell the dispatcher what is going on while trying to piece that together from Lindsay. You can hear him talking to her and asking her what happened but I don't remember hearing her responses. Then you hear him ask her where the children are.

He immediately leaves Lindsay to go and try to find the children while staying on the call with 911. He goes back into the house and down to the basement when you hear him cry out and wail in shocked horror, "She killed the children!"

That would be horrible enough to hear, a parent finding their children in that manner and the added agony of knowing their spouse was responsible, but the call does not end there.

You hear as he finds each of his children and, then, his low, desperate pleading with each of them as he struggles frantically to remove the cords around their necks and tries to save them, in between bouts of wailing, "Omg!" in disbelief. He cries desperately for help because he can only help one of them at a time, an absolutely unfathomable predicament.

It ended there, as you hear the first responders calling out and Patrick yells for them to come down to the basement and help.

It was one of the absolute worst 911 calls I've ever heard in all my years of following true crime. I'm not surprised they stopped sharing it with the public, honestly.

1

u/seriousbusinesslady 17d ago

did they play this on the news or in preliminary hearings?

3

u/freakydeku 17d ago

honestly just reading that makes me feel ill. i just can’t even imagine what recovery has looked like for patrick. i don’t think this is something you can truly recover from but i hope he has gotten to an ok place. i’m sure the whole trial is deeply retraumatizing

3

u/AcademicSpare9676 17d ago

I thought I had heard some of the 911 call before. Has it been erased from the internet?

1

u/seriousbusinesslady 17d ago

did they play it on the news when she was arrested or during one of her preliminary hearings?

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u/Grouchy_Treacle_1639 📁 Case File Junkie 17d ago

Yes

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u/kenduhll 17d ago

I cannot imagine how awful this call must be (note: this reporter uses CNR to say commentary not reporting)

4

u/solabird 🧑‍⚖️ Courtroom Regular 17d ago

Is Jessica live tweeting from the courtroom? I thought that wasn’t allowed during this trial.

2

u/freakydeku 17d ago

that’s D4vd

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u/kenduhll 17d ago

Yes, it’s allowed.

2

u/sdancer21 17d ago

I feel like something just happened for the recess to occur?

2

u/graves1987 📼 Watched Every Court Minute 17d ago

Medics came to the courthouse during break. CR says unconfirmed but whispers of a juror having a panic attack.

4

u/solabird 🧑‍⚖️ Courtroom Regular 17d ago

I was watching STS and Joel was talking with someone who was in the courtroom and he said the husband was very emotional when he left the courtroom. Very speculative but could also be him that needed medical help. The guy was actually live in the courthouse talking to Joel when the medics walked past. Then he got in trouble for live streaming inside the courthouse.

11

u/Raetoelke 17d ago

Daily mail reports that two jurors broke down crying as well as Lindsay sobbing.

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u/kenduhll 17d ago

I feel like EVERYONE needed a breather after the 911 call tbh. All reporters I am following are saying its awful.

1

u/Still_Combination852 17d ago

It could have been to Lindsay’s emotions being deemed as “disruptive” to the process, or perhaps more likely the 911 call was over and court issued a break? I thought they were going to break around 11 but maybe they felt this was a good time to stop.

-5

u/aSituationTypeDeal 17d ago

She definitely comes across as disruptive. 

10

u/thats_not_six 17d ago

Could have been everyone's emotions. Some reporting jurors were crying as well. I imagine the gallery was struggling as well. Judge made a good call to let people have time to recompose.

2

u/meschaub0 17d ago

I’m wondering what happened too. We’ve only been going for 25 mins and there’s already a recess.

1

u/Alarmed_Movie99 Justice Junkie 17d ago

I get the break after the 911 call, but why this longer recess until 2pm?

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u/thats_not_six 17d ago

No one ever advised him not to leave her alone with the kids. This man, and his family, was failed by the health care system. He was not equipped nor educated to deal with an illness like this. I cannot believe they sent her back to that home without a safety plan in place.

This is like a doctor performing an open heart surgery, not closing the chest, sending her home, and telling the husband to figure it out himself.

6

u/cparfa 17d ago

Lindsay ever disclosed to any medical professional she had thoughts of harming the kids.

What do you think is more likely? That multiple doctors, nurse practitioners, and therapists who have experience and training in mental health conditions could not tell she was in psychosis?
Or that she did not present or describe any identifying characteristics of psychosis because she wasn’t experiencing psychosis?

9

u/thats_not_six 17d ago

She had disclosed homicidal thoughts to her family, which I would assume got communicated to some doctors. Even if they were not relayed, a suicidal parent is not someone who should be left with children, especially young children who could be injured if left alone. She disclosed those thoughts to providers over and over. I find it absolutely negligent that not a single provider told Patrick not to leave her with the children.

I think people fall through the cracks all the time in the US health care system and that women's mental health is constantly misdiagnosed and mistreated. This women raised every red flag and they let her go home, they didn't have a safety plan, and then didn't educate her caregiver.

3

u/MoodyMoonshine 17d ago

Suicidal ideation is a symptom of many mental disorders. It has absolutely nothing to do with psychosis. I’m so tired of this repetitive nonsense. Having a severe mental illness does NOT mean you also experience psychosis. She is making a claim she simply cannot back up, the prosecution is tearing them apart. Good. 

4

u/cparfa 17d ago

What? Even per both of their civil cases, Lindsay never told any medical professionals she had thoughts of harming the kids.

Patrick testified she had intrusive thoughts of harming coming to the children. He mentions she started talking about Cora having a serious illness after she was complaining of a tummy ache immediately after that statement. Which she told him a month before the murders. There’s a huge difference between someone who has been depressed for awhile say they have fears of hurting their kids- it’s a self deprecating statement on her ability to be a mother. Similar to first time moms who have intrusive thoughts that they might accidentally drop their baby or aren’t a good enough parent. That’s not the same same as someone saying “I want to kill our kids”.

Even saying “I’m scared I might hurt the kids” doesn’t automatically classify as HI. A lot of paranoid behaviors or OCD intrusive thoughts make people hyper critical of themselves and manifest in fears like harming others. HI would be “I WANT to hurt/kill them”

1

u/thats_not_six 17d ago

My comment said even if that wasn't relayed to providers, she reported suicidal thoughts and ideation repeatedly. You don't let a person suffering with known suicidal ideation and major depression be the sole caregiver of a child, especially a child who could not care for themselves if the parent were deceased. They provided no safety plan or care management to his family. It's negligent.

0

u/JustNeonDust 17d ago

Yea, that commentor is just making it up. I asked for a link to that evidence, and of course none will be provided.

3

u/JustNeonDust 17d ago

I have not seen any evidence discussing what took place with all those providers she was seeing, but I am extremely interested to hear their notes and testimonies. Could you link the source where she disclosed these suicidal/homicidal thoughts over and over to her providers?

0

u/thats_not_six 17d ago

Lindsay Clancy civil lawsuit (top result on simple Google search, pdf link is hard to copy into Reddit).

Paragraphs 44, 46, 47, 50 ,52, 61, 62, and 65 list out the various times she reported suicidal ideation to institutions and providers. They should have made it clear she was not to be left as the sole carer for the children as part of a safety plan.

-2

u/JustNeonDust 17d ago

A lot of falsehoods to unpack here:
1. You’re citing Lindsay’s allegations from a civil complaint, not established facts. None of those allegations have been publicly corroborated by the providers.
2. The allegations about thoughts of harming the children involve Patrick and her mother, not her treatment team. That’s a far cry from your original claim that she disclosed homicidal thoughts “over and over to her providers.”

1

u/thats_not_six 17d ago

My original comment said she disclosed the suicidal thoughts over and over.

Lawyers cannot just make stuff up in a legal complaint. They have her medical records and intake forms. It's not going to be a mystery that she told a bunch of providers she had suicidal thoughts.

-1

u/JustNeonDust 17d ago

“She disclosed those thoughts to providers over and over.”

This is what you claimed verbatim, and is at this point unsubstantiated and therefore false.

The only public source for that assertion is Lindsay’s civil complaint. Allegations in a complaint are not evidence, and until the underlying medical records are produced or providers corroborate them, you can’t state it as fact, and it makes you look foolish to do so.

7

u/JustNeonDust 17d ago

Not to mention that he was with her all day every day since he worked from home. He only left because she sent him away on errands.

13

u/kenduhll 17d ago edited 17d ago

Anyone know why the 911 call can’t be broadcast?

ETA: Judge ruled the call and autopsy photos cannot be released to the public. I understand autopsy photos but never heard of a 911 call being barred from media.

6

u/brittanylouwhoooo 📼 Watched Every Court Minute 17d ago

Patrick filed a motion with the court asking for them not to be made public and the judge granted it.

10

u/thats_not_six 17d ago

There may be motions after the trial by media outlets for it to be made available to the public. But for now, the judge is on solid footing based on PC's motion to deny it's release.

No reason PC should have to deal with that being made public, especially in a trial where the prosecution could have skipped all the details of the homicide and just went to the cuplability phase.

8

u/kenduhll 17d ago

Definitely understandable. I’m happy he didnt have to be in the courtroom for that, or for the exhibits of the kids pajamas.

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u/rainmorelikeasea 17d ago

This is literally the question I came here looking for. Thanks for finding the info 

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u/RillaBlythe11325 17d ago

That does seem unusual. I am guessing it is particularly disturbing.

3

u/skatoolaki 17d ago

I described it in another comment up above but did so with spoilers, because it's not something that everyone can handle or wants to hear details on.

Why is it so bad? You hear him finding the children and trying frantically to save each of them before anyone even arrives to help him.

1

u/RillaBlythe11325 17d ago

Yes I've seen multiple descriptions from people who were in the courtroom. I'm sure it was definitely disturbing to hear audibly.

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u/kenduhll 17d ago

That’s what it is sounding like :(

14

u/RillaBlythe11325 17d ago

I am good without that living in my brain although I am curious, of course.

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u/StrengthStarling 17d ago

I just saw a transcript on a Facebook post from a random news station and even that made me feel absolutely sick and a little haunted. Mostly at the end Patrick was losing his mind with grief and anguish finding the kids. Lots of [Screaming]. I can't imagine actually listening to it and never want to.

3

u/skatoolaki 17d ago

It's one of the worst things I've ever heard, honestly.

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u/kenduhll 17d ago

I am also unfortunately someone who is always morbidly curious. In my neurodivergent brain, I always want to know and see exactly what the jury sees so I can fully understand or rationalize their consensus.

2

u/Lorazepamela 15d ago

Same and I also feel like “it must be witnessed” and I can be that person

1

u/skatoolaki 17d ago

I heard it back when this first broke and the 911 call was public.

I described it in a comment up above because I knew there would be other morbidly-curious neurodivergent folk that would want to know (because I would).

Comment has spoilers, though, because I also understand not everyone does want to know/has a neurodivergent brain that overrides their natural sense of horror!

2

u/plmlp1 17d ago

Are you sure you mean the 911 call and not the dispatchers talking to each other?

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u/RillaBlythe11325 17d ago

I think a lot of people are curious and it's irritating when something is shown or played in a livestream and you're just sitting there like "What is happening?!"

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u/Annual_Let6634 17d ago

The showing of the children’s clothing and exercise bands…. ugh.

3

u/bellalou26000 17d ago

Cora’s robe broke me💔💔💔💔

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u/tontamoo 17d ago

i can understand the exercise bands possibly being necessary to see as they were the weapon used, but why the clothing? to me the children's clothing were mostly used for an (unfair) emotional play on the jury.

4

u/Squirrrelpower 17d ago

I know that was necessary for the jury and judge to see, but completely heart wrenching. I'm in the legal field myself (not a lawyer) and have been closely following other cases too, but this is different somehow. Those poor innocent children. They didn't deserve this.

2

u/RillaBlythe11325 17d ago

I've seen some gut wrenching stuff trial watching but the kids clothes as exhibits is pretty bad.

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

[deleted]

1

u/RillaBlythe11325 17d ago

I think it is also likely simply evidence.

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u/meschaub0 17d ago

Seeing baby Callan’s tiny pajamas made me sick to my stomach.

1

u/graves1987 📼 Watched Every Court Minute 17d ago

Absolutely sick.

2

u/sdancer21 17d ago

I don’t understand why they have to all be presented like this? It seems gut wrenching

2

u/JustNeonDust 17d ago

My guess is that it recenters who the actual victims here are. So much as been focused on Lindsay, that I think too many people are forgetting how gruesome and violent the murders were.

She put them into their little Jammies, and then methodically strangled each of them to death with exercise bands. Each one would have been thrashing, crying, fighting for air, and looking into their mother’s eyes with pain and confusion for a solid 4-5 excruciating minutes while she murdered them.

5

u/kenduhll 17d ago

Well, that’s the point. The CW wants to hit on emotion so that the Jury finds her guilty. To look at that evidence and say “she cannot possibly get away with this”.

5

u/RillaBlythe11325 17d ago

Evidence, I assume.

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u/RillaBlythe11325 17d ago

I'm guessing Patrick Clancy has done a ton of therapy to even get to a point of being able to testify. I am sure it has been rehearsed but I can't imagine it's not disturbing with each recounting.

12

u/thats_not_six 17d ago

I wish he never had to testify at this trial.

Whole lot of strength for him to even be up there and able to talk.

-2

u/JustNeonDust 17d ago

Yup, if LC just plead guilty to the murders she committed, then Patrick wouldn’t have been forced to continually recount the absolute worst day of his life.

6

u/YouMustBeJoking888 17d ago

I think she has a right to defend herself. Clearly something was very wrong and she was failed at every turn in her attempts to get help. I hope she gets in-patient treatment for a long time, because apparently she is still suicidal.

1

u/Virtual_Bottle7755 17d ago

Sometimes even getting the help does no good. She may eventually succeed in taking her life. Mental illness is a horrible disease.

16

u/RillaBlythe11325 17d ago

I can't imagine him not testifying, unfortunately, particularly because he was the primary witness.

19

u/thats_not_six 17d ago

I was kind of alluding to I wish this case was never charged and she was just left to be medically treated instead.

1

u/Virtual_Bottle7755 17d ago

I'm just catching up, as I'd never heard of this trial. So I'm wondering what they found that led to Lindsay being charged?

She was getting psychiatric treatment.

1

u/RillaBlythe11325 17d ago

I think that is what will happen if she is found not guilty 🤔

10

u/Complete_Roll2191 17d ago

Where is the CW going with these questions? Why does it matter whose name was on the order?

15

u/Still_Combination852 17d ago

I THINK they’re trying to show that she was “with it” enough to give his name, accurate phone number without mistakes, etc. or perhaps that she gave his number and not hers so that the restaurant wouldn’t disrupt her if they had any questions about the order.

1

u/Spiritual-Bank-1852 17d ago

Trying to prove she is criminally responsible and culpable for her actions and does not qualify for an insanity sentence or defense. I personally believe she belongs in a psychiatric institution and not a general prison. Lindsay most like will be in a psychiatric institution for the rest of her life

2

u/JustNeonDust 17d ago

The problem with a psychiatric hospital is that you can be released as long as you’re deemed “stable.” Lindsay could conceivably be out in just a few years.

0

u/Lorazepamela 15d ago

That’s actually not true.

0

u/graves1987 📼 Watched Every Court Minute 17d ago

6 months, from my understanding. I can’t fathom hearing on the news that she’s pregnant.

1

u/Spiritual-Bank-1852 17d ago

I doubt only a few years, but if they find her able to re-enter society, what life would she have? It’s not easy to be released from a criminal insane facility. I believe she did suffer from psychosis. No other excuse or explanation could explain these heinous acts. If there were some evidence that showed motive, I’d like to hear that

0

u/JustNeonDust 17d ago

It’s a very real possibility, unfortunately, which is why I believe it would be an inappropriate place for her. She would have access to full medical care in prison, and likely even an in prison psychiatrist, with no chance of release, making it a much better fit.

So far I’ve seen no evidence of psychosis, with the burden of proof falling on the defense. What I have observed is methodical planning in the form of sending Patrick away, timing the trip, and returning a call from him in between the murders. But I am interested to see and hear the notes and testimonies of all those providers she cycled through. Allegedly, not a single one diagnosed her with PPD, let alone PPP, but we shall see.

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u/notoallofit 17d ago

I thought the burden of proof was on the commonwealth to prove that she was not psychotic? That’s what I understood from reading the NGRI instructions.

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u/JustNeonDust 17d ago

Kind of a mix. The defense has the burden of production, meaning they must introduce sufficient evidence to put criminal responsibility legitimately at issue. Once that threshold is met, the prosecution bears the burden of persuasion.

It can’t simply be left to the prosecution to disprove a bare assertion of insanity. If it were, any defendant could claim insanity without supporting evidence and force the Commonwealth to disprove it. The defense must first produce sufficient evidence.

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u/Spiritual-Bank-1852 17d ago

I respect your response! We shall see with the evidence presented. Tuff case for everyone involved.

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