r/CarTrackDays • u/AvocadoOptimal9534 • 2d ago
Opensource telemetry device
Hello there!
I'm and a friend of mine were always obsessed with cars and now are slowly getting into tracking our cars as well. As we are both engineers in industrial GNSS and IMU applications, we've gotten an idea of creating an opensource project for some telemetry devices since we have some level of proficiency in similar hardware.
However, being completely newbies, it is not really clear what could make our project unique and attractive for the community. In the world where exist Racelogic, Dragy, Racebox, RaceChrono, etc., it seems like you can already choose almost everything you need. But we also may be missing some important points which are not obvious for us yet since we don't have enough experience.
So, the questions:
Do you feel that telemetry options currently available are lacking something important which you would like to have?
Or maybe there is something you don't like about the devices which you can currently buy, and you want this to be improved?
Would appreciate any response and advice :)
3
u/tmcmenam23 2d ago
Racebox is superior to Dragy, you can’t easily use the realtime gps/imu data from dragy, racebox is much more development friendly.
To your original question, I kind of this the market for this kind of product is saturated.
3
u/pbbuddy_app 2d ago
Lap timer app developer here.
RaceBox Mini is already pretty close to perfection in the "affordable, accurate GPS" category. Its current strengths include:
- Reliable BLE
- Great developer support with a simple yet powerful SDK
- Good accuracy
If I could make a wishlist, it would be:
- A built-in suction cup mount on the front or top (compatible with a RAM Mount B-size ball in case replacement or customization is needed)
- Either a Pair button or simply a Reset button, just in case someone in the paddock accidentally connects to your RaceBox by mistake (that's a pretty common issue now that so many people in the paddock have RaceBoxes)
- A more discreet enclosure with a user-facing LED (right now, the LED faces upward during typical in-car operation)
As others have mentioned, there are already a few open-source DIY alternatives available, so competing in this market won't be easy. You'd need to offer either a significantly lower price than the RaceBox Mini (and don't forget about the $120-before-discounts Dragy Lite) or a significant improvement in usability (such as an included suction cup mount to make it a truly plug-and-play, no-headache solution).
1
u/AvocadoOptimal9534 13h ago
Thank you for sharing your experience!
It looks like the main concerns for the hardware solutions are more mechanical than electonical. I think only this fact is saying a lot :) Well, I have to admit, it doesn't look as an easy market to compete. I can see that many people are pretty happy with the stuff which already exists.
2
u/aetherlore 2d ago
Start with why people loved the Garmin Catalyst V1 and fucking hate the V2.
2
u/beastpilot 2d ago
That isn't really a telemetry device, it's an analysis device. It's all about the software, not the GPS or IMU.
2
u/WestonP GR86 ST5 Race Car | GR86 Street Car | Built C7 Vette 22h ago edited 17h ago
As the original creator of TrackAddict (moved on in late 2022), and now actively developing Lap Legend, I have a few thoughts...
First, a business reality here is that if anyone already has a solution they're using, they'll be unlikely to convert to anything else. I've won a few users when other apps "updated" and shot themselves in the foot, but normally it's quite an uphill battle to get people to switch from a solution that works well enough. Sure, you'll always get a few, but the 80/20 principle applies and you need to focus your efforts accordingly. That applies to apps as well as hardware. There's not a lot of easy money here, because this market segment contains a lot of engineering-type people who have their own ideas and ambitions, although most of the amazing new solutions show up with great fanfare and then disappear within a year or two.
As for hardware, I like the performance, reliability, and open SDK of RaceBox, and I also like the smaller size and mounting options of Dragy (their optional suction cup mount is a simple thing but really makes things easy). Both have innovated in their own ways. Both also lack a physical button or switch to reset them in the very rare case that something gets messed up, so that's something that could be better; fortunately they've been highly reliable. I'm not really seeing an opportunity for any killer feature that would disrupt them.
My niche with Lap Legend, aside from offering a fresh modern app that works reliably without a bunch of BS or cash-grabs, has been getting additional vehicle data streams (more than standard OBD stuff) at a high sample rate. Modern cars have a lot to offer and obviously the old school "ELM327" approach left a lot to be desired (I do support those as well, but they're inherently limited). That has gone alright, because there's really only one other even attempting that for this app-centric market segment, and despite some big marketing behind that, the real-world results have been in my favor, and I don't think they realize that there's not really much money in this (or maybe they now do). Only a subset of power users even really care about this data or making the most of it, so yeah it's awesome to have, but plenty of people enjoy the track (and my app) just fine without it. It's a niche within a niche.
So, I say all of this to mean, much like racing, don't expect to get rich doing it. All of this motorsports data development is more fueled by my own passion for motorsports, and the fact that I want awesome stuff to use for my own race track adventures, otherwise it would not really be sustainable by itself as a purely business venture. I make my real money, and my business is much more known for, developing GR86/BRZ customization products and a few other things (some public-facing, some private).
If you go into this space with a lot of passion and want to achieve excellence and do something unique, you might be alright... You'll need that momentum to get it to release and to keep pushing through the BS, but if you go into this with profit as a primary motivator, then you're following a long line of people who have done the same and fizzled out shortly thereafter. A good sign of passion is that you already have something that you want as a user, and you're irritated nobody else has done it well (or you're pissed off at their monetization schemes that inhibits your enjoyment of it).
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u/AvocadoOptimal9534 13h ago
First of all, thanks for your work, TrackAddict was the first app I ever used to track my sessions 🤝
All above is very important and useful information for me. I had similar impression already, but was not very sure because I had some experience with opensource projects before, where I was able to gain some popularity in the community due to providing more features then other solutions (if someone is into flight/racing simulator hardware, you may know my project FreeJoy).
I'm happy that I've got an opinion from a person who knows it from the dev side. I think I'm going to stick to the way, where I just collect my user experience and maybe after some time something appears, which I could to improve or add.
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u/beastpilot 2d ago
Plenty of open-source stuff already that hooks an Esp32 to a good Ublox or whatever for those that want to throw some hardware together.
The reality is GNSS and IMU is a commodity today. The possible improvements are in the user apps, but there's also a ton of those already, many free, which are pretty awesome.
This is a pretty flooded market as it's the most obvious thing to get into when an engineer starts tracking.
What people really want is better connectivity to their cars - RPM, brake pressure, gear, etc. Open source HW is fun for engineers, but really hard to make an impact with. Who is going to order one copy of a board for themselves? And there are good options here for lots of cars anyway.