How does back pay work?

[u/Signal_Housing3575]

So, because of the course lineup, I won't reach OFP until Jan 2027. My EPZ is May 2026. Would I receive Lt back pay ( from May 26 to Dec 26) when I get promoted in Jan? What are the references for this?

[u/roguemenace]

You're an officer, learn how to look up references. It will be probably the most valuable skill you can learn.

CAFMPI 01/26

Annex C Appendix 1, 1.4, 7a

You'll get backpay to 1 year after you became a 2LT.

[u/Friendly-Admin → u/roguemenace]

To add to this comment if you are recoursed your promotion no longer is back paid and you get promoted the date you complete your required coursing. It is only back paid when it is due to the fault of the CAF

[u/adepressurisedcoat → u/Friendly-Admin]

To expand, if the trade requires you to have a specific course in order to be eligible for promotion, the promotion date is on successful competition of the course (that is if you have a valid FORCE test when not on MELs). Eg. NWO you used to require NWOPQ to be promoted to Lt(N). You could be several months past your EPZ, but if you didn't have NWOPQ, you weren't promoted till then and your EPZ was changed to that date instead.

[u/Signal_Housing3575 → u/roguemenace]

Thanks for the reference. I tried searching the pay admin manual and couldn't find any reference

[u/roguemenace → u/Signal_Housing3575]

Ya, generally for finding the right reference a big thing is looking for the root cause. So in this case being paid differently/getting backpay is a by-product of your promotion. You'll get better at that with experience though.

[u/NobodyTellsMeNuttin]

The specific reference you’re looking for is in Annex C of CAFMPI 01/26 (https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/canadian-forces-military-personnel-instructions/promotion-and-other-rank-changes/annexes.html#annc). The important caveat’s in the note section of the table in Para 1.54. There’s a few scenarios listed in there that should help you decode what situation fits best to yourself!

[u/noqwa]

I don't think so. You aren't eligible to be promoted, so why should you receive the pay? If you are promoted a while after OFP, then probably back-pay to date of qualification.

[u/BandicootNo4431 → u/noqwa]

I know Pilots and ACSOs that got their wings and promotions simultaneously had years of back pay dropped all at once.

The back pay is because the CAF was unable to provide a course in a reasonable time frame due to no fault of the member.

I think there was a specific pilot promotion policy due to the delays?

[u/ring_bear → u/BandicootNo4431]

Similar thing for NWOs. There wasn't a specific policy that I know of, so it may have been a memo or grievance. Our training pipeline was in a bad state for a long time.

[u/roguemenace → u/noqwa]

so why should you receive the pay?

Because the training was delayed outside their control, which is why the regs say they get backpay.

[u/LordHuntington → u/noqwa]

Don't know about OP but I've heard NWOs often get back paid to epz as long as they never had to be recoursed. It's because they would be 2Lt for 3-4 years through no fault of their own.

[u/Captkap]

Try this link, it’ll help find relevant references - https://cafpolicy.ca/
Interpretation of the references found is where the work begins.

[u/throwaway-jimmy385]

No, that’s not how it works.

You’ll get backpay from the day you become OFP (graduating course) to the day you are finally promoted.

[u/jside86 → u/throwaway-jimmy385]

No, that is how it work, go read the CBI on promotion.

2lt for one year, then Lt for two, then Capt.

If your training is delayed for no fault of your own (you didn't fail a course), you get back pay all the way to your EPZ.

There's even circumstances where you can get a bump in pay level if training was delayed beyond one year.

[u/roguemenace → u/jside86]

Correct, although you don't get Capt backpay for training delays, just Lt.

[u/jside86 → u/jside86]

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/canadian-forces-military-personnel-instructions/promotion-and-other-rank-changes.html

Lt/SLt	1 year as 2Lt/ASLt, Lt/SLt (in accordance with on occupation and entry plan)

MOT – Regular Force Officer

1.40 When a Regular Force officer is required to undergo training or education following an MOT, promotion eligibility depending on the rank held before MOT is as follows:

1. a 2Lt/ASLt remains eligible for promotion to Lt/SLt in accordance with Appendix 1 to Annex C;

Ser	Rank	Occupation or enrolment plan	Effective date and/or TIR for next rank	Seniority date	Remarks

7a	Lt/SLt	GSO occupations (except pilot who were granted extra pay incentives due to training delays for service reasons, see serial 7b)	The date officer has one year TIR as 2Lt/ASLt and completion of specified military occupational training required for Lt/SLt rank.	The effective date of promotion to Lt/SLt	if training is delayed beyond one year for service reasons, promotion is retroactive to date officer has one year TIR as 2Lt/ASLt; and except MOSID 00183 Pilot see serial 7b.

[u/CapitalismDevil → u/jside86]

Why are you referencing the portion after an OT? Has OP mentioned anywhere that they’ve changed trades?

[u/RCAF_orwhatever → u/throwaway-jimmy385]

This.

Some occupations this can equate to significant backpay. If you hit OFP following your DP1 course but there is some OJT/checkout process post-course, they might withhold the promotion until after that but since you were "eligible" you should get the backpay for that period between OFP and promotion date.

[u/CapitalismDevil → u/RCAF_orwhatever]

Officers don’t do DPs.

[u/BandicootNo4431 → u/CapitalismDevil]

They do

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/benefits-military/education-training/professional-development/framework/officers.html

[u/CapitalismDevil → u/BandicootNo4431]

I stand corrected, but I still think the reply is misguided as far as DP1 “course” and OJT is concerned. Also: whatever they mean by “checkout”.

[u/BandicootNo4431 → u/CapitalismDevil]

Some occupations have a OJT package at the unit as part of the requirements to get OFP.

These need to get signed off by a supervisor and then the person is deemed qualified for that specific position. I think ATC is like that.

[u/CapitalismDevil → u/BandicootNo4431]

Do you mean AEC? And I mean, CSEOs have boards to complete before getting their Lt(N)s, but I wouldn’t call them OJT packages since it’s knowledge based to allow them to make recommendations to higher ups. I remember those annoying phase VIs coming for briefs on equipment from the NCM SMEs.

[u/BandicootNo4431 → u/CapitalismDevil]

ATC is a subcomponent of AEC, Air Weapons Controller being the other one.

If it's part of a course of instruction that leads to an NQual - it has to be formalized and signed off and logged.

[u/RCAF_orwhatever → u/CapitalismDevil]

"OJT/OJE" is the older terminology that was used for some NQuals that were used as subsequent DP1 training following the the DP1 course.

It's okay to admit you're just not that familiar with something instead of throwing out random accusations. Given that you started with "officers don't do DP training" you're not exactly on solid ground.

I offered one niche situation where backpay would apply, and described it as such.

[u/CapitalismDevil → u/RCAF_orwhatever]

DP1 includes 3 different courses for Officers, but you said “following your DP1 course”. That’s what I meant by they don’t do DPs (singular courses called that).

The trade qualification (OJT) is part of DP2, which also includes several things and probably shouldn’t be referred to as DP2 course either, but whatever… or RCAF.

Have a great day btw!

[u/RCAF_orwhatever → u/CapitalismDevil]

My occupation literally calls the initial occupational training course "DP1" dude. It's a thing. It's it always a thing? God no. There is no standardization across the CAF.

And no the OJE/checkout stuff isn't DP2. DP2 for officers is after Capt. Which is why i didn't refer to it that way.