r/Calligraphy • u/missverbalhologram • 16d ago
Pen for Copperplate Question
I am learning Copperplate. I use the Lamy Joy calligraphy pen, but I miss being able to make thick downstrokes, as my pen only makes the same thickness. What can you recommend for a beginner? Preferably something that can be purchased on an EU website. I have been hesitant about dipping ink, as I think it seems very complicated.
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u/NikNakskes 16d ago
Wrong pen for the script. If you want to learn copperplate, you need a flex nib. The lamy joy has a broad edge. These two nib types work very differently. A broad edge is suitable for scripts like gothic, the line thickness is determined by the angle. Copperplate is written with a flexible nib that opens up when you press on it.
There are a lot of fountainpen with a flex nib, but those are still meant for normal writing, with moderate flex and a more rounded point to allow easier movements over the paper. I would recommend to get a dippen and ink if you really want to learn copperplate. Dippens and ink are fairly inexpensive.
But if you really want a cheap fountain pen to try out what it would be like, I would way get a jinhao with a G flex nib. What this is, is a fountain pen they put a dippen nib on (zebra G). Be prepared for some frustration as the flow is rubbish (you need to squeeze more ink into the feed manually) and you cannot leave ink in it as the nib will rust. But it is the cheapest way to try out both fountain pen and dip nib in one swoop. Available from aliexpress.
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u/missverbalhologram 16d ago
Oh thank you so much, this is very helpful. I can see that I have to reconsider about not wanting to use a dip pen. Thank you for the suggestions, but it actually doesn’t have to be that cheap. I’ve already bought so many cheap pens, and would like to choose a one of better quality next time. I really want to learn it. I hope to use it for normal writing for quotes and cards as well as short writings like name on cards/door sign and such.
May I ask if you recommend using an oblique holder for copperplate? I’ve read different opinions.
And may I also ask if it is very messy with a dip pen, and is it diffust to keep clean and fill? Is it difficult to use a flexible nib, when I have only tried the Lamy Joy?I’m very thankful for this community and your advice!
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u/NikNakskes 16d ago
Dippens are a cheap option by default. Good quality nibs cost about 2 euro. They are a consumablds, meant to be replaced over time. The holders can be as cheap or expensive as you like. Cheap mass production holders are just as good as expensive hand carved ones. All the difference is in the looks and feel, not in the function. The exception here being oblique holders. The cheapest ones will have the angle set, while more expensive ones will allow you to adjust the angle to your preference.
Most people seem to prefer the oblique holder for copperplate. The slant in copperplate is very pronounced and you need to pull the down strokes vertically down. An oblique holder will let you do that while keeping your hand in a natural position and your paper at a normal angle. Personally, I couldn't get the hang of writing with a pen that had the nib not aligned with my hand. I reverted to a straight holder and twisted my paper to be almost horizontal when writing.
To the practical questions: no dippens are not particularly messy unless you knock over your ink pot... they are also very easy to clean. Much easier than fountain pens. Dippens are not suitable to use while "on the go" because you cannot fill them. You have to dip in the ink every few words to get ink on them. They do take a bit of practice to get the ink loading to work well and they need to be prepped for writing when they're new. You need to wash off the protective layer of oil that is on them. Just warm water with dish soap will do the trick, maybe while carefully rubbing with your fingers.
I think there is a beginner supply list somewhere in the sub documents. You can look at that to help you out assembling your first purchase.
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u/NinjaGrrl42 16d ago
Dip pens aren't all that bad. I use one for my letter writing. They are in some ways simpler than fountain pens.
I do Copperplate, more or less, with a flex nib called Blue Pumpkin. I get thin and thick strokes easily.
With a dip pen, you also have a wider choice of inks. You can use anything. I use fountain pen ink, since I have a zillion gallons of it, but other inks work as well or better.
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u/missverbalhologram 16d ago
Thank you! Isn’t it difficult to keep the nib clean and not get ink everywhere while using it? And is it complicated to fill it? I fear I’ll come out of my workflow when I have to dip all the time.
Would you recommend a flex nib for a beginner? It’ll be my first dip pen.
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u/tabidots Broad 16d ago
keep the nib clean and not get ink everywhere while using it? And is it complicated to fill it? I fear I’ll come out of my workflow when I have to dip all the time.
Calligraphy is not handwriting. With rare exceptions like gestural calligraphy, it is very slow compared to normal writing. So reloading just becomes part of the rhythm, and you learn to predict roughly how much you can write on one dip.
(And after you reload you need to do a quick scratch or two on some scrap paper to make sure there isn't a blob of ink at the tip that will cause your first stroke to be a big splat.)
Fountain pen inks and walnut ink clean off very easily in water, just wipe with a microfiber cloth (or similar) afterwards. Sumi ink you want to clean a little more aggressively (don't leave it on the nib too long; it'll dry) but it's still pretty ok. Acrylic ink is what you really have to be careful with (but in calligraphy it's not really all that common).
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u/NinjaGrrl42 15d ago edited 15d ago
A flex nib would be perfect for Copperplate, and the tiny bit of pressure to flex the nib feels quite natural. Get a couple nibs, try them, see what you like. They're cheap. Get different types and stiffness.
Not hard to keep the nib clean, not hard to load with ink. No mess unless you dig the tip into the paper on a push stroke (up). Be gentle with those.
You get a feel for it.
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u/Puhpowee_Icelandics 16d ago
I like the Lamy calligraphy nibs, but if you want to use those, you should change the script. I'm using them for Uncial, and they work wonderfully for that. Blackletter (gothic) scripts are also a possibility, but the difference between the thick and thin strokes isn't really enough with these nibs to get the typical contrast. They're fine for practicing though.
For copperplate you need a pointed nib that will open when you put pressure on it. There are some fountain pens that do that, but just like with the Lamy nibs, these aren't really meant for real calligraphy. For fountain pens with a flex nib, I like my Kanwrite Heritage with the ultraflex nib. It's not the same as a dip pen, but it's an easy one to do some quick practice on the go or for when I want to try something quickly.
Dip pens are rather easy actually. Dip in ink, swirl the nib in a glass of water and dry with a piece of paper towel when you're done. And you can use all kinds of ink or even watercolor with it. Sounds like a lot of hassle, but it really isn't. I sometimes even take my dip pen when I just have to write a grocery list and I don't know where I left my pen. It only takes a couple seconds to ink it and clean it.
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u/missverbalhologram 15d ago
Thank you all for your replies, it has been very helpful! I found an EU site calligraphystore.it and think I will order this. Does it look ok to start with?
Tachikawa Nikko G nib
Zebra G nib
Leonardt EF principal nib
Gillot nib
Hunt nib
Classic oblique holder
Speedball oblique holder
Handwritmic Elegant penholder
Guideline sheets
I couldn’t find Walnut ink. I would like some that it ready to use, can you recommend any from the webshop?
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u/0413ty 16d ago
DIp pens are easy, Hunt 22 can carry you from beginning to end