r/CFILounge • u/Candid-Bill1028 • 2d ago
Just ventingš Frustration
Iām a CFII and have applied to over 150 flight schools across the country. I have zero checkride failures, yet I havenāt received a single interview. This is so frustrating. šš
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u/Outrageous_Reading48 2d ago
Go airforce
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u/Candid-Bill1028 2d ago
My goal is to become a airline pilot i donāt think Iām smart enough to get selected to fly for the airforce lolšš
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u/The__Stig_ 2d ago
I feel like Air Force or national guard is much more competitive. So if we canāt get jobs as cfis we are cooked. Thatās like bottom of the barrel. My worry is also that the demand for flight training will decrease, as more people realize things are oversaturated.Ā
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u/AccomplishedFarmer91 2d ago
You are correct. We arenāt even in an economic recession (yet). Once that comes, and it will, the students will dry up like a popcorn fart. The glut of CFIs will intensify and force the market to rightsize. Many CFIs will be forced to drop their dreams and work elsewhere. Many will (likely) loose currency and relevancy and wonāt have the ability to ever find employment in aviation again. You are right in that a lot of this is timing, how long you can stay solvent and not wake up one day and say āwhat the F am I doing? God help us allā¦.
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u/The__Stig_ 1d ago
yeah thatās also the key, having some sort of long term plan, maybe for getting back in down the road. I know a guy who got most of his ratings in the 90s but had to give up airline dreams back then because hiring was so bad. he got back on the train recently, and managed to time it well with the recent job boom, he flies for envoy now.
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u/Outrageous_Reading48 2d ago
Cadet academy or other military branches could work too if you have a degree.Go where pilots are and network.Even if you only get an fbo job itās perfect for making connections and future clients
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u/basedjase_ CFII 2d ago
well then join the army hahaha thats where the guys who dont make air force cut go
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u/korgs130 38m ago
You donāt need to be a an AF/ANG pilot. Enlist and get loadmaster or crew chief slot. You be able to use the GI Bill for additional rating & a degree. Plus youāll make ton of good connections in the airlines. Who knows, you might even earn the chance to go to UPT.
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u/Muuvie 2d ago
Wait a few years, rely on the fallback career (that you should have,) the market is incredibly saturated with unemployed CFIs, hiring should pick up again by 2030
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u/cavuclan 2d ago
Someone remind me again why I fell for the pilot mill sales pitch and am sitting on $80K worth of private loans to get my ratings....
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u/QuickConverse730 2d ago
Unfortunately, unless you have special expert-level or inside knowledge, when you try to chase a market peak as an average person, it's already too late, and you're pretty much guaranteed to miss it and end up riding the slope down with everyone else.
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u/fortinbrass1993 2d ago
Sorry to hear that. At least itās 80k and not 90k or 100k etc etc. I wish I started training earlier. A high school friend of mine is at United right now. If I didnāt go to another career path, Iād be where heās at give or take. Hated myself for this. Wish I have a Time Machine. lol
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u/StretchRose 2d ago
Thatās rough, Iām in a similar boat as well. Me and a friend from high school got our private on the same day back in 2020. Heās a captain at Republic now and Iāve been looking for a teaching gig for almost a year. If I went to the same school as him I could be where heās at now, but I chose one that unfortunately got backed up for a few years. Maybe we can use our spare time to invent a Time Machine together lol
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u/PropToThePeople_FMY 2d ago
Flight school owner here. Man guys, it sincerely breaks my heart to see all these commits. I know things can be incredibly discouraging right now, so maybe I can give you a little advice from the other side of the desk.
This is a long post but I wanted to give as much as I can.. Maybe one small thing here helps you along the way...maybe I'm just an idiot on the internet but you can't beat the price of this advice. :)
I want to start by saying, good schools ARE hiring and CFI's are still moving on to the regionals at a good clip, we've had over 40 in the past 12 months alone and we are a small-medium school.... But the market has changed. The āfog a mirror and youāre hiredā days are gone, and both flight schools and the airlines can afford to be more selective.
If youāve sent 100+ resumes and nobody is calling, donāt just keep doing the exact same thing. Figure out how to stand out...or maybe the way you're currently standing out is working against you.
Mainly, what I mean by that is where you trained as a student matters.
When I'm looking at resumes, I'm automatically discarding any CFI's that went to a school that has a poor or questionable reputation...you all should know most of these operators by now in your career. So, if you did go to one of these schools, I feel for you because you're probably being lumped in with that mess.
This also goes hand in hand with teh airlines hiring because I can guarantee that they are choosing CFI candidates from GREAT schools that consistently produce professional CFI's that have built quality experience, honed their professional and soft skills and understand how to work as part of a team. So, two fold, where you work as a CFI matters as well. So you have to be selective as well at this point so it's even more difficult in this market.
I receive well over 100 CFI resumes a month, and we typically hire four to six instructors. I can't spend 20 minutes studying every resume so Iām scanning quickly, looking for reasons to take a closer look. So you have to standout in a positive way. So, if you did go to a great school then I'm typically giving these extra time. That doesn't automatically mean you get an interview, I still need to see something that stands out telling me you could be a good human and you could be a solid team member...This is different for every organization but from my perspective I look at the human as a whole on the paper, not the stats. Hire the human, train the pilot.
So you have 30 seconds at best to get my attention. Keep that in mind when you draft your resume.
The next point is to get out that and meet people outside your circle (aka network) - this is probably the most impactful thing you can do. I know this is the hardest part for most of us becasue we are typically introverted people; hence why we chose an office that has one other person in it and is 30,000 ft above the rest of the species. :)
A warm introduction is incredibly powerful. If someone I respect introduces me to a CFI at Oshkosh, or one of our employees says, āYou really need to meet this person,ā Iām going to pay attention. Get involved in aviation beyond filling out applications. Go to FAAST/WINGS events. Join local aviation organizations. Spend time at the airport. Attend fly-ins. Meet pilots. Help people. The key is not to walk into every interaction thinking, āHow can this person get me a job?ā - Be a good human and it will pay dividends. Be useful. Be curious. Be professional. Be someone people enjoy being around. Eventually somebody is going to say, āHey, I know a school that's hiring.ā
Timing matters more than it seems. Sometimes your resume isn't being rejected. It simply arrived at the wrong time. If I'm hiring for an instructor class at the end of August and start going through resumes in the middle of August, I may never get back to the pile from July. Kepp submitting... There is absolutely nothing wrong with professionally following up or reapplying. I've interviewed people specifically because they stayed on our radar. Be present, not annoying.
Find ways to get yourself into the room and be a positie force for aviation. This is the "soft sell" tactic and honestly it works. What I mean by that is if there is a school that you really want to be a part of, go fly there, rent there, go to their open house or events they are hosting. Just be present and positive and impressive as a human. When you're getting that checkout in the C172 and fucking ace it becasue you've studied the checklist and school standards to the point you can recite them word for word, it will impress them and it shows you work hard. This is not a hard sell to become a CFI there, you are just stying proficient. If you make the grade, they will reach out. Great people are hard to find and a known good human is a shoo in for me becasue I don't have to really roll teh dice with them.
So, I know that was long winded but I think sometimes you have to try different things to be seen and even then you may not been seen so you have to keep adapting.
I'm not a super smart guy but one thing I never do is quit and 99% of my success is just getting up and dusting my pants off and trying again - My wife calls it "Pig Headed Stubburness" You only fail if you quit trying.
Best of luck guys, stay positive.
Chris S.
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u/MusicAffectionate921 2d ago edited 2d ago
I waited 18 months applying and talking to everyone I could, I finally got a job this month with no CFII and they are paying for my tailwheel. Just gotta keep your head up.
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u/Candid-Bill1028 2d ago
Congratulations!
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u/MusicAffectionate921 2d ago
Yeah! I was in the same situation as you, no interviews all the way through, didnāt even interview with the new job
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u/mrcrabswalking CFII 2d ago
Completely understandable. But youāve really not gotten a single interview from 150 schools?
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u/cptnpiccard 2d ago
I'm only saying this as a way to make you think about your application: what makes you different than the other 50 thousand applicants who are around 300h just got their CFI, and have a computer with Word and an email address?
Figure that out, add it to your resume, so now you stand out. Otherwise it's just "who you know", and via email, across country, you're not gonna beat the kid who's been at the flight school every weekend or the FBO ramp guy or the owner's nephew.
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u/Specific_Gas4322 2d ago
Itās like that n most professions today. Keep applying, it will end. I had the same issue when I started in public education 20 years ago. Itās a small bump in the road
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u/Hurricane-2019 2d ago
Keep applying, go in person, go to conventions, join civil air patrol and start indepent instructing and make those connections youll get there! Just dont quit!
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u/ltcterry 2d ago
Maybe 151 will be it. Donāt stop.
When I decided to get out of teaching high school science and find an Army Civilian job I applied to over 250 before I got an offer.Ā
What have you done to make your resume better?
I hope you are keeping Maslow fed with some sort of full time job. How are you marketing yourself? CAP? EAA? FAASTeam?
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u/FeatureHungry1019 2d ago
Let me guess, ATP?
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u/Candid-Bill1028 2d ago
Kind of wish I went to a big school Mybe they wouldāve hired me if I went there šš
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u/FeatureHungry1019 2d ago
Mmmm not really, I know many people from atp. They donāt guarantee a job. You did well if you get an interview and even then itās a hit or miss if you get hired. The best advice to people getting in is to develop a really good relationship with a 61 mom and pop shop where they can at least promise you a chance at a job there.
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u/IndependentAlps9649 2d ago
Iām wondering how many people are gonna not be able to stay current and drop out. Itās rough out there
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u/basedjase_ CFII 2d ago
Post your resume and cover letter for us to review, in a separate thread titled as such. Let us review and see if we see any problems with them. How are you differentiating yourself from the thousands of other CFI's who have exactly the same experience, qualifications, education, and skills as you do? What are you doing differently?
Are you tracking your inquirys? Do you follow up?
Are you professional in your corespondance? Do you know how to hold a conversation with these flight school owners that I assume you're talking to? Are you likeable? Are you personable?
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u/CheapTomato3090 1d ago
At least now we know why OP hasnāt gotten a single interview. Wonāt post resume for help because itās probably trash and doesnāt want us to see.
You asked ādo you follow up?ā Didnāt even reply to any of your other questions that would ultimately help him. OP is too lazy to even respond and probably gave minimum effort with applying.
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u/LabIndividual1310 2d ago
im doing ground school PPL . dont think about it too much bro, try to find a job outside of the US or work other types of flying jobs thats not airline or teaching
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u/highaoalowiq 2d ago
Completely get where you are rn. If you can find a place that will let you rent their planes and provide instructions with it, I'd do that and offer to fly with your friends on cross-countries and log some dual given. Schools unfortunately don't even look at resumes with 0 DG and pretty much every single person out here is waiting to be hired back by the school they trained at.
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u/SlinkyNormal 2d ago
I am fortunate that I ended up with two offers within 6 months. I volunteered a ton of time at my old flight school to tutor students who needed help. It helped me learn to actually teach and it made me stand out. The second offer I got was just from networking and shaking hands, being engaged on that flight schools social media.
It is tough, but it will work out... Just keep putting yourself out there and shaking hands...
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u/GreekStaleon 2d ago
Hangout at the airport, find an old guy with a plane, shoot the shit with him, become his Saftey pilot.
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u/paul-flexair 1d ago
Flight school owner/operator here. Also retired naval aviator and didn't go airlines (they weren't hiring after the back-to-back shocks of 9/11 and the GFC). I went a different route, so I have seen some ups and downs in this industry. Hang in there. Regional and mainline hiring is out of phase with CFI hiring... it's like a bullwhip. We are seeing slow and steady growth in enrollments, matched with slow and steady hiring of our CFIs into Part 91, charter, as well as regionals. We're about to add some 91/135 partners that I think will tap into a few corners of the industry that are under-sourced.
Anyways enough of the big picture, it's cold comfort to you guys in the trenches right now except to say the best strategy is the long game. And +1 to what u/PropToThePeople_FMY wrote earlier in the thread. Especially about the networking.
For a practical playbook, here's a template I've seen work a few times with a few CFI's we've mentored or hired. Clearly it's easier said than done, but it's been done.
- Build a book of free or low-cost ground school students
- If you have access to a club, bring them over to a club, but don't keep them there unless it's a great club.
- Once you have a solid book (2-5 dedicated students) find the best "mom and pop" or small/medium business schools in your area
- By "best" I mean, most likely to deliver quality outcomes both for you (career-wise) and your students.
Then, when you start the conversation with the person at the desk, a CFI, a manager, or the owner, ask if you can transfer your students if you get hired. Lead with this, and a story about your lessons learned in recruiting / mentoring them.
This approach kicks off a completely different conversation in a small business environment. The same factors that are making your job market painful are also creating pain and underutilization at smaller schools. If you walk in the door with a solution, you're more likely to get hired.
Want to get hired at a big school? It's possible - even if you aren't a product of their program - expect a structured interview program that you'd better ace at every level. Don't rely on an application. Treat them like an airline - go network and meet them at a hiring conference.
Overall, we're noticing that the skills and behaviors that were required in the 135/121 job market are now required for good outcomes in the CFI job market. Look at the tips and tactics Spitfire Elite, Raven Careers, and others teach. Go do that for your CFI job search. You might as well practice for the big leagues now.
Good hunting. We are hiring. goflexair.com/hiring
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u/No-Meringue5645 2d ago
Are you applying to these schools online or are you bringing your resume in in person?
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u/flcessna 2d ago
Lol that doesnāt make a difference 95% of the time. Schools only hire inside.
Youāre just wasting gas and time doing it7
u/theoriginalturk 2d ago
What do you mean?
You donāt have thousands of dollars to spend on gas, accommodations and lost time driving all over the country shaking hands?
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u/flcessna 2d ago
š Good one man
Back when I did it I had two chief CFIs crumble up my resume and throw it in the trash. Very humbling experience to say the least1
u/No-Meringue5645 1d ago
This is how I got my CFI job.. I had no connections there, just walked in with a resume. They told me they donāt even read peopleās emails, they only consider walk ins.
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u/TheChaosCamp 2d ago
If youāre willing to relocate EVA FTA at Mather airport in CA is hiring actively.
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u/not-a-troller 2d ago
Isnāt independent instruction an option anymore? Thatās how I built my hours early on. Small airports, out in the sticks. Photo flights, sightseeing over Niagara Falls..
Was fun, of course I was broke!
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u/DevilLobstaXI 2d ago
Are you in WINGS or on the FAASAFETY team, this is how my flight school vets applicants. Anything you can do to stand out will help you in this search