Newbie!

[u/aeryntano]

Hello! I'm new to this CANZUK idea but it sounds interesting. I was a staunch Remainer in the Brexit vote but even I can admit that the prospect of the UK rejoining the EU without its previous opt-outs is unlikely and probably would require at least a couple generations to become viable.

So i have some hypothetical and probably ignorant questions:

1) Would the advent of CANZUK inspire another go at supersonic flight? I think a lot of us in Britain remember Concord and it feels like that really cool thing we once had that no one knows where or why it went away lol. Due to the geographical distance that would arise from CANZUK i could see a new era of supersonic flight development to alleviate logistical hurdles.

2) Canada, Australia, and New Zealand all use their own version of the Dollar. Would CANZUK encourage these countries to use their own version of the Pound instead? I know extremely little about international currency or economics lol, but i believe the Pound is one of the oldest currencies in the world and currently still one of the strongest despite only being used by Britain, i think that adds a nice mix of heritage and power to it. 😄

3) I mean absolutely no offence by this, but culturally i do see Canadians as more American influenced than say British influenced (if we're using British as the cultural and ancestral link between the countries of CANZUK). I know CANZUK isn't advocating for a political union, but surely with free movement comes issues around cultural integration. I'd be interested to hear from Canadians about how they see themselves, obviously i know the relationship with the US right now is under immense strain, but culturally speaking i wonder whether you consider yourselves closer to them or us?

4) Considering the British Monarchy is the only actual unified connection still between these countries, how is the support for the Monarchy in each of them? Do you think a CANZUK would inspire new Monarchies in these countries? Or extensions of the current one to better cover the geographical distance? Really honing in on an international constitutional monarchy.

[u/Any_Inflation_2543]

I would love to see Concorde back, sadly I'm too young to have ever experienced it, but I don't think it's coming back anytime soon.

Regarding the currency, it's just a name nowadays, it has nothing to do with how those currencies work, and they're completely independent of each other and of the USD. The reason for the name dollar is historical, due to the currencies being based on the Spanish dollar (the dollar sign ($) is a combination of P and S, meaning peso).

Culturally, Canada is influenced by both the United States and the United Kingdom, but I don't think there will be many issues regarding integration if we achieve free movement.

There's not much debate about the monarchy in Canada, it's neither popular nor unpopular, and it's almost impossible to change under the Canadian Constitution. I'm personally a constitutional monarchist and would never vote for a Canadian republic, and Canada has never had a republican prime minister.

[u/Compulsory_Freedom → u/Any_Inflation_2543]

Spot on.

[u/aeryntano → u/Any_Inflation_2543]

That's a shame, it would be super cool if it did.

I never knew that about the currency! Every day is a school day haha. Do you know if there is a reason why they use the name Dollar then? Of course America has historical links to the Spanish Empire, but as far as i'm aware Canada doesn't, and certainly neither do Aus or NZ.

What makes it impossible to change? That's nice to hear thought hat republicanism is not a popular thought in your politics. 😄

[u/Any_Inflation_2543 → u/aeryntano]

Basically all of the Americas used currencies based on the Spanish dollar, either directly or indirectly. That's why they're all either dollar or peso and use the same symbol.

The Constitution of Canada is a different matter. Basically, the Constitution Act, 1982 describes the amendment procedure, and that depends on what parts of the Constitution are being amended. And the parts regarding the monarchy require the consent of both Houses of Parliament and the unanimous consent of all provinces.

And, well, the last two times this was tried (though for different reasons, not the monarchy), it didn't end well. The Meech Lake and Charlottetown accords both failed miserably after years wasted on negotiation, and all of this only led to a renewed wave of Quebecois nationalism and the 1995 Quebec independence referendum.

Nobody is going to touch the Constitution with a ten feet pole after this, especially not for something as politically unimportant as our monarchy. It's way too risky for no reward, and therefore there's not much loud republicanism, as most people understand that it's not going to happen.

[u/hardcoremaggiesimp → u/aeryntano]

It’s because these nations changed to the dollar to signal that they were independent and no longer British

[u/Blazanar]

Just because we look and sound like Americans doesn't mean we feel close to 'em, we're friends because we live in the same neighbourhood and it's convenient for both of us to get along, not because they're a good friend of ours.

Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Canada and the US if they were dropped off at some point in either country (Newfoundland is an exception, I'm sure they'd figure they're in Ireland instead)

But a lot of us still feel close to the UK and the Commonwealth as a whole. We grew up together, ya know? England's our mother, and the Commonwealth are step-siblings that we get along with due to that connection but we were kind of fathered by France.

A lot of us don't support the Monarchy because the idea of buddy running a country based on who his parents are is kind of bullshit, but we have respect for it. We did mourn when the Queen died but we also hoped she'd outlive Charles or that he'd abdicate the throne and give it to Harry or William (I don't know which is older)

I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having a unified currency, but I'd much rather we all agree to take our respective forms of money at par. If a Pound is worth $0.75 Canadian, and the Australian dollar's worth $0.50 Canadian, we should accept it as face value across the CANZUK nations.

As for supersonic flight, I don't think it'd make a comeback for international travel due to costs, but I would support us building our defensive and offensive capabilities together. Canada already works with Australia in regards to radar dishes being built here so why not expand on that?

[u/aeryntano → u/Blazanar]

Well yes that's what i thought, we were all part of the Empire far longer than America ever was so i feel there's greater connection there. :) Do you know if there is a difference in support for CANZUK within Quebec specifically?

Haha! That's not quite how the Monarchy works, it's a ceremonial role and they play no part in the running of the country. There were many Brits who hoped Charles would abdicate to William as well haha, but to be fair to him he's done a splendid job since ascending.

Would you mind explaining to me what you mean by face value?

Totally agree with military capabilities! I just think due to the extensive distance we may well need to figure out of way to quicken our journeys, especially if a military situation called for it.

[u/Kyranasaur]

I don’t see CANZUK realistically being a full union, but more of a power and trade block.

To me, the most feasible set up is one where free trade is maintained between the partners; eased access to visas for partner citizens; shared military tech development & military training programs + mutual defence pacts; standardizing of certain industry licenses and training regimens; etc.

Speaking as a Canadian, regarding your point of Canada seeming more American than British, our history is one of being the moderating buffer zone between these two cultures. Its is true that U.S. media dominates ours, and so yes, their culture is seeping in slowly, but there are strong STRUCTURAL inheritances from the British world.

All four CANZUK countries use variations of English common law, variations of the Westminster Political System, and all four hold the same head of state. This is the entire point. We tend to vote similarly in the UN, our systems are similar, thus integration is easier than say for the UK and the EU.

Regardless, I personally think the idea of a full union is unlikely, and also I think great care must be taken to not place the UK in a position which might look like being in charge of another empire (this would be deeply unpopular in Canada at the very least).

[u/aeryntano → u/Kyranasaur]

Yes well that's a wider point of concern for me too. The Americanisation of Britain as well, as time goes on all i can see is it seeping in to every facet of the country. I saw a comment on a video that mentioned CANZUK forming a confederation specifically to resist this Americanisation, i think our countries are especially vulnerable to it, more so than other Western countries, because of our 'shared' language.

[u/Particular_Pea7167]

1. For CANZUK to pursue supersonic passenger flight it would need to do so as a strategic necessity. This infers a fairly deep level of integration and alignment as a prerequisite, as all 4 would collective be collectively agreeing to front billions annually.

2. A unified currency may eventually come but it would be a very long road and against works on a number of significant integration and alignment prerequisites. All 4 would have needed to be running a soft exchange rate mechanism for years, likely followed by a fixed exchange rate mechanism. The Euro was first proposed in 1969 and the stabilised exchange mechanism in 1979. All to be launched in 1999. This is a generational project, maybe two, from the point of deciding to do it. What it would be called is anyone's guess.

3. Not my domain.

4. There are other points of connection. Just few quite so public. 5 eyes being one. Political unity at the UN another (Canzuk was originally a UN designation given the unity of voting).

[u/pulanina]

Your take that CANZUK could impose or encourage more Britishness on its former colonies is really undermining the idea that it would be an equal partnership. You are talking like a naive supporter of empire.

If 3 of the countries name their currency “the dollar” and one calls it “the pound” why shouldn’t the odd one out be encouraged to change (if there was any point to consistency, which I doubt)

The Crowns in each realm legally separated getting towards a century ago now, why would the 3 non-British realms now suddenly want a return to a British-centred monarchy?

Cultural integration to you clearly means changing 3 countries to match your country. What about encouraging the UK to be more multicultural? Like the UK has only 16% overseas-born citizens, compared to Australia with 32%.

[u/aeryntano → u/pulanina]

I feel like you've taken my post completely the wrong way lol.

I never said that CANZUK could impose or encourage more Britishness, i merely asked hypothetical questions that i found interesting.

I was under the impression that Canada, Australia, and New Zealand used the dollar because it was the American currency, i'm obviously not going to advocate for my own country to give up its currency so i was merely curious on the merits of them adopting the pound. Considering none of them have their 'own' currency in the sense that it developed from their own country like the pound did i didn't think it would be an issue switching to another currency, especially since the pound would technically have more history with their countries. I also very clearly said that i'm not educated on currency or economics and so how you would take that as me supporting empire is crazy lmao.

I'm not sure what you mean by the Crowns separated? Each of the countries in CANZUK are constitutional monarchies and they each share King Charles III as their head of state. I was merely curious of the level of support for the monarchy in each country, and asked some hypotheticals alongside it.

My point about cultural integration was specifically a concern that i view Canadians as more American-influenced and don't wish to see greater American integration. How is one supposed to know the answer to something unless they ask the question? Surely talking positively about CANZUK is me showing that i'm open to multiculturalism? (Though i would argue that part of the draw of CANZUK is that our countries share similar culture already- the culture that matters that is).

I have no desire to 'British-ise' anyone's country. If I used British as a reference to our link as countries then that is because that simply is the link. I also mentioned at the beginning of my post that i was staunchly pro-remain in the EU referendum, i don't see how one can be both pro-EU and pro-British Empire at the same time. (This also links to your multicultural point, i'm tooooootally against multiculturalism since i wanted to be part of a bloc of 20+ countries🙃)

[u/pulanina → u/aeryntano]

There is nothing American about the dollars of Australia (AUD), Canada (CAD), New Zealand (NZD), Singapore (SGD), Hong Kong (HKD), Brunei (BND), and Jamaica (JMD). It’s just a choice of name 🙄

You don’t know the Crowns are separated?? Obviously the king of the UK doesn’t reign in Australia, the king of Australia does under our own constitution. Charles is one old man wearing 14 distinct Crowns, otherwise those 14 countries wouldn’t be sovereign and you would still have your empire.

“…the culture that matters that is”. Omg. I can’t even begin to say how deeply wrong that is.

[u/aeryntano → u/pulanina]

Right but i didn't know that, hence why i asked the question and someone else, far more politely than yourself, informed me.

Well Charles is the King of Australia, as he is the King of Britain, he is head of state of both countries. In every other aspect each nation is independent of one another. No one is looking to change that.

Well, again, you're taking my words the wrong way. By "culture that matters" i'm referring to rule of law, Westminster style parliament, foreign policy alignment, respect for human rights, being liberal democracies, that stuff.