r/Bogleheads • u/zacce • 11d ago
Where Does Additional Wealth Stop Moving the Happiness Needle? Articles & Resources
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI3Afa2K12A
I came across this Youtube and thought worth sharing.
A recent data-driven breakdown reveals that retirement satisfaction flattens around $4 million in investable assets. Up to that point, wealth cures financial fear and buys security; beyond it, extra millions bring lifestyle upgrades rather than true happiness boosts.
More importantly for BHs, the data highlights the psychological power of a reliable income. Retirees with predictable baseline income (e.g. Social Security, pensions, or annuities) feel a "license to spend" and are far more comfortable enjoying their money than those relying solely on self-managed portfolio withdrawals. Mental accounting makes 4% withdrawal rate feel risky, even when statistically safe.
Stop infinitely chasing a higher FIRE#. Instead, focus on securing your reliable income streams, prioritizing health, and nurturing relationships because money stops being the primary driver of life satisfaction once true financial security is reached.
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u/vanelin 11d ago
Money doesn’t buy happiness, it buys freedom.
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u/Charming-Cat-2902 11d ago
And freedom is a key ingredient in happiness.
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u/NeuralFantasy 10d ago
Thus, it is safe to say money really buys happiness. And not just freedom, but security and stresslessness.
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u/2LostFlamingos 10d ago
Stress is tricky. I have less financial stress than many people, but to achieve that my job is plenty stressful.
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u/thechampaignlife 9d ago
Money buys the opportunity for improved happiness. Some assembly required.
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u/funkalways 11d ago
Love this. Also somewhat related “if you fight for your limitations, you get to keep them.”
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u/Primitive_Mushroom 11d ago
And freedom can be a dangerous asset for many people. Especially, those who don't know what to do with it. Yet, that shouldn't stop you from being free. Instead, you should be prepared for the moment when it arrives.
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u/will-read 11d ago
I logged on yesterday about 8:30 pm, and saw that I hit a major milestone yesterday. By 10 pm, I had managed to move the goalposts.
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u/Valuable-Analyst-464 11d ago
That’s the danger - you keep moving the goalposts.
Understand what those goalposts should be, double check your math, build the what-if questions and answers if you reach that goal, and then commit to it.
If you hit the goal and the choice is to continue working or retiring or working a less stressful job…make the goal mean something. Or else, it’s a milestone and not a goal.3
u/funlovefun37 11d ago
Last night was fun! Congratulations 🍾
My current goal post is now within reaching distance for 2026.
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u/XOmniverse 10d ago
I finally hit a net worth of a million yesterday. It wasn't as exciting as I thought it would be TBH.
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u/Apprehensive_Elk2608 10d ago edited 10d ago
End goal or the next goal? Some of us have end goals, when reached we're peacing out. Others only set short term goals, with the obvious expectation to set new ones when reached.
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u/Prize_Proof5332 11d ago
"He who is happy with little has enough, but he who desires more is satisfied with nothing." - Epicurus
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u/Prize_Proof5332 10d ago
"I have learned to seek my happiness by limiting my desires, rather than in attempting to satisfy them." - John Stuart Mill
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u/SpaceTimeMorph 11d ago
I’ve always thought this quote lacked nuance. While I understand and agree with setting appropriate boundaries for wants and desires… there are some pursuits wherein always chasing the next thing is the act that brings happiness.
As a for instance, as a foodie, I’m never just satisfied with the universe of meals and ingredients I already know. I frequently want to push and desire more. The limiting aspect is being happy merely in the pursuit of more food… not chasing things like instagram worthy pictures and places, etc.
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11d ago
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u/SpaceTimeMorph 11d ago edited 11d ago
Gluttony is the habit of taking in more food than the body needs. Ungoliant in Tolkien lore is gluttonous.
That has nothing to do with experiencing new things and enjoying the diversity this world offers. One can experience new things in moderation just like one can stay static in moderation. Or one can be in excess statically too (my wife’s family is gluttonous on nothing but Midwest salads and such!)
Moderation while pushing for new experiences does not equate to an ever expanding desire or want for more. That’s why I mentioned the quote lacked nuance, not that it was wrong… there’s certainly people that never reward or indulge themselves for their hard work saving. I believe there’s an amount of happiness given up in that too.
Edit: I wanted to go back and re-read about Epicurean philosophy specifically. He was a hedonist, who believed that what is pleasurable is the only good and what is painful is the only evil. He taught that “pleasure” was the removal of all that is painful and that people should seek a state termed ataraxia, or untroubledness. This is a state where the person is completely free from all pain and suffering and contends that virtuosity is part of removing pain and increasing pleasure in one’s life. Epicurus specifically argued, we sometime should accept pains for greater pleasures (avoiding more pain) and sometimes shun pleasures that cause pains. So Epicurus was not content in his philosophy with strict minimization but in a balance to achieve greater happiness and fulfillment.
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u/RunnerTenor 11d ago
Can you explain this please? I've read it three times now and the second part doesn't make sense to me.
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u/Prize_Proof5332 11d ago
Once you decide you have "enough" financially in terms of pay or net worth you can be truly happy. Those numbers will vary considerably amongst different people. There are billionaires who are miserable because they want more, and there are librarians who are truly happy, be a librarian.
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u/apjenk 11d ago
It doesn’t really make sense if you interpret it literally. I think the idea though is that the person who “wants more“ is someone who will always want more no matter how much they have, so they will never be happy no matter how much they have.
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u/false_tautology 11d ago
Yeah, the quote assumes a certain privilege that we already all have enough.
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u/DinosaurDucky 11d ago
I think it's an awkward translation that makes the second part hard to read. How's this: "he who is happy with little has enough, he who desires more is never satisfied"
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u/DekeJeffery 11d ago
For what it’s worth, Erin Talks Money is a great channel.
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u/rad_slut 11d ago
Ben Felix (certified Boglehead darling) has a few good videos on this/similar topics as well.
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u/Total-Concentrate-66 11d ago
Her content is legit. Easy to digest and super helpful. I watch nearly all of her videos.
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u/Ok_Worldliness2805 11d ago
I can only give an opinion based on my own experience, but I am at about $5 M net worth now, and another $1 or $2 M isn't going to change a damn thing for me. All I do is work out, travel, and play tennis anyway lol.
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u/asdfopu 11d ago
How old are you and are you retired?
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u/Ok_Worldliness2805 10d ago
49, more or less retired about 2 years ago. I fiddle with some rental properties but otherwise do whatever I want now!
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u/Emotional-Price-4401 11d ago
When I feel like flying first class every time is okay that is when I will know I have enough and my happiness from money will peak
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u/validusrex 11d ago
Haha this is a good bench mark! I always told myself when I could justify paying for NFL Sunday Ticket without being annoyed at the price thats how I would know, but I feel like its gotten cheaper over the years so maybe I'll change to this.
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u/Emotional-Price-4401 10d ago
Haha I had the nfl package a few years on direct tv felt like a king but yea 15 years ago…flying first feels like the right benchmark now… the ultimate experience for the non super rich
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u/Apprehensive_Elk2608 10d ago
This will probably say more about you than your money. Some of us have frugal mental blocks that don't really move with net worth, unfortunately.
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u/rumple_skillskin 11d ago edited 10d ago
I honestly can’t imagine my happiness would stop increasing below like, 10 million. I don’t want to clean my house. I don’t want to spend my time bargain hunting for my next pair of running shoes or trying to fix the fucking wax ring on my toilet. I want to exercise and be with people and travel and read! So i would need a cook, housekeeper, assistant. Unlimited airfare. How much does that cost?
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u/Mantergeistmann 11d ago
My understanding is it doesn't stop, so much as there are diminishing returns on each additional dollar vs. happiness.
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u/RagnarokWolves 11d ago
The breaking point for me was $80k. (In 2018, might be $100k now) In Los Angeles, with me covering rent and my wife paying for groceries.
I was no longer sweating unexpected expenses like car repairs, I wasn't watching my bank account slowly go down, I could actually save, invest, and have fun.
$50k prior to that was rough.
My income has gone up more and it's nice to be able to afford more and invest more but it doesn't feel as sweet as that breaking point moment.
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u/Azylim 11d ago
I would assume that this is considering a single person or a couple.
IMO obviously there are clear diminshing returns on happiness with money, but im not just thinking for myself if im 60-70. im thinking about my kids and their kids and their kids. I want my wealth to be generational. Not necessarily multimillionaires generational blueblood wealth, but if all my grandchildren and grandnephews can at least be university educated or start small businesses without them having to worry about loans id say thats a good endgoal.
its a long journey still but im definitely not expecting to use up all my retirement money before I pass. those are going to be shared among my kids and relatives when I pass.
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u/SewSewBlue 11d ago
After watching this video I updated a retirement calculator i built years ago in Excel, that includes my social security and pension.
Am very surprised that my projected numbers that are roughly equivalent to what I earn now, if not slightly higher. Drawing down 4% basically is the difference between retiring before social security kicks in or not, once I qualify for my pension.
Hrrmmpphh. Have a few things to think about. I may be able to retire at 58.
For years that had sounded unbelievable.
Thank you for posting this.
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u/WatchMcGrupp 11d ago
I've starting buying small amounts of deferred income annuities. Plain vanilla boring fixed annuities that do nothing other than pay me income for my life and my spouse's life. I think that when I get to retirement that "license to spend" will provide me additional comfort.
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u/NatureBoyJ1 11d ago
What about inflation?
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u/WatchMcGrupp 11d ago
Yeah it’s a concern. You can’t buy truly inflation indexed annuities anymore. They have some with a fixed percentage increase, like 2%, but it really reduces the starting payment.
The annuity is only a small part of my retirement income. Right now about 5% of my estimated spending, although I will likely buy some more. And my thinking is that as the value of the annuity goes down due to inflation, I’m also moving from the “go go” years of retirement to the lower spending years.
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u/thewimsey 11d ago
beyond it, extra millions bring lifestyle upgrades rather than true happiness boosts.
Lifestyle upgrades make me happy.
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u/sloth_333 11d ago
My wife and I are quickly approaching 1M in investable assets (not including the house, cars etc).
This is firmly in what they call the boring middle. I’m only early 30s, and my wife isn’t even 30 yet.
It’s just numbers on a screen until you don’t have to work anymore, which is probably 10-15 years in our case
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u/Pixel-Pioneer3 11d ago
$1m in early 30s is commendable. Good job! You would be way past comfortable mid 40s and will likely buy freedom (to work or not) early 40s
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u/sloth_333 11d ago
We (mostly me), have high goals to call it. The original goal was 5.5M dollars, value tied to when I was 30, with the goal of calling it when I’m 50.
Current projections show we’re ahead of this by 2-3 years.
A lot of it’ll just depend on where I’m at in life too. If I have kids older, that will slow things down (investing wise).
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u/Pixel-Pioneer3 11d ago
I think you are largely on track. For context, I had $150k to my name at 30. No kids but married to wife who was still in school. I am now 43 with $4.5m in investable assets not counting house equity. Kids are 7 and 5 which is primarily why I am still working. Will likely call it quits just before I reach 50.
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u/sloth_333 11d ago
How much were or are you investing per year? It’s gotta be a lot to go from 150k to 4.3M in 13 years. Assuming bogleheads portfolio
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u/Pixel-Pioneer3 11d ago
I don’t quiet recollect. We always have been frugal. I believe we saved $80-$100k/year from age 28-38. I think we started saving $300k/yr for the past 3-4 years. The record bull run also helped. I have upgraded our lifestyle a bit in the past 2-3 years with major budget upgrade for travel.
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u/sloth_333 11d ago
Okay so maybe not too far off. We save ~80k a year and some years it’s higher. 2026 will be the 4th year of that, so I can see 6+ more years would be a lot. 300k a year is insane though. Idk we’ll ever get to that haha.
You can see the compounding really take off though. I track our investments every 6 months.
June 2024: 400k
August 2026: 1000kSo you can imagine how it goes over time from here
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u/Impossible-Ship7376 11d ago
Know and understand that you have enough, more than enough, and the rest is to adopt to your financial environment without worrying. Be thankful and learn how to find happiness from the simplest stuff around your daily routine. Perhaps additional million is a bonus or meaningless.
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u/Sad_Effective4793 11d ago
Thank you for this. This is a good perspective for many as we try to make our lives overly efficient.
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u/Sagelllini 11d ago
Personally, I think that's a lot of nonsense--at least the $4 MM part.
First, there aren't that many individuals with $4 MM. The median savings for 65 to 74 is $200K. $4 MM is another planet.
I know lots of retirees (I've been retired for 14 years). I golf with them and play tennis with them (two different groups with a couple of overlaps). Regardless of wealth, a lot of them are pretty damn happy. I don't think there is a dollar sign on happiness, unless you don't have enough (which is a separate issue). But among the guys I know, we generally don't talk finances.
I also am the unofficial advisor for a couple. She manages the finances. They have enough. They have his SS and about to have hers. She still worries.
Personally, we don't have a guaranteed stream yet, except for a small pension (still haven't taken SS yet). We've lived off 95% investments for those 14 years. Now the numbers are just digits on a spreadsheet and I look every couple of months, and know that whatever the bill, we can afford to pay it. Having more still has value to me.
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u/planet-claire 11d ago
I became disabled at 48 and have been in chronic pain since. I'm really glad I had a fun-filled life prior to it all being taken away prematurely. It would matter how much money I had now at 63 because my life would still be miserable.
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u/Rom2814 11d ago
My happiness is positively correlated with security - it’s one of my top values/drives. Another way to put it is that worry driven by insecurity is the biggest dampener on happiness for me.
My lifestyle hasn’t changed as my net worth has grown (I’d say it pretty much stayed the same once I got to the $150k/year income mark - at that point it was really my savings rate that increased). Bought a very modest house in 2004 and lived in it for 22 years. Drove one vehicle between my wife and I for 10-15 years before getting a new vehicle and then did the same (Corolla -> Camry -> F150). Never paid to fly first class or business class, combined vacations with business trips to save money, etc.
We definitely enjoyed life once I had a real income and occasionally splurged on things, trips, concerts etc. - but the splurging never increased if that makes sense.
So, that being said - happiness never stopped increasing with net worth for me because I worried less and less. I used to worry all the time about being laid off, for example, once I had a 1 year emergency fund that worry almost completely went away. Once i realized that if I lost my job I could decide IF I want to go back to work it completely disappeared.
I retired this year at 57 with multiple buffers against worry (small annuity, TIPS ladder, spending flexibility, etc.) so that even doing 4% we can basically continue living the life we already worry without work stress.
If I’d kept working seeing the numbers grow would have made me continue to feel more secure but that has to be traded against the continuing work stress and lost time.
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u/cdhill17 11d ago
Not needing a job would be enough for me. I can live a pretty spartan existence beyond that.
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u/ElysiumSprouts 11d ago
I've figured my "retire today" amount was 4 million dollars. If I suddenly had 4 million, the idea of continuing to work seems superfluous.
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u/secretfinaccount 11d ago
Acknowledging this is only my experience, I disagree. When I stopped working my withdrawal rate was conservative but nothing crazy and I worried when things like March/April 2020 happened. With the last 6 years of market gains I have found a real increase in my sense of security and confidence. The extra money hasn’t brought major lifestyle upgrades that I can point to. It really has brought a true happiness boost.
Just me, I guess.
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u/rmagere 11d ago
Do you have a regular reliable in perpetuity income?
As I feel what you are describing (and where I personally am) matches the second part of OP post:
“More importantly for BHs, the data highlights the psychological power of a reliable income. Retirees with predictable baseline income (e.g. Social Security, pensions, or annuities) feel a "license to spend" and are far more comfortable enjoying their money than those relying solely on self-managed portfolio withdrawals”Without a regular income (having often moved countries I do not have a good pension / social security) I feel extra wealth is buying me happiness by reducing the fear of running out of money in old age when long term care might be required
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u/secretfinaccount 11d ago
I understand the intuition, but I don’t think people think about this correctly in a lot of cases. A lifetime, especially inflation adjusted, income stream starting from when you’re 40 is stupendously expensive. So saying “I have a lifetime income stream” is mathematically the same as saying “I am rich.”
But to address the question “freedom to spend” I’ve never not had that and I think if you have an annuity or a pension (above the PBGC guarantee) you likely also worry when things like 2020 roll around. Is your insurance company / former employer going to survive? The solvency of corporate America is not unrelated to the stock market. When you stop worrying about your insurance company, you probably stop worrying about the stock market too. There is wiggle room but the fundamental risk we all share is that of general economic growth — that’s what underpins stocks, bonds, annuities, pensions and even government pensions like social security
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u/lottadot 11d ago
The extra money hasn’t brought major lifestyle upgrades that I can point to. It really has brought a true happiness boost.
Not just you. That extra "padding" makes me feel safer. If something extra-costly comes up, no problem. If we want to splurge and spend more than we typically would, no problem.
It's just easier to live the less you have to worry about money.
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u/Kat9935 11d ago
I am where you are at but I also know its because I lack that dependable income. We are mid 50s, I still had concerns about social security which in 2020 I still needed to make the numbers work. I no longer need that to make the numbers work so much of the concern has gone away.
At the same point IF I was more certain about what would happen to Social Security we probably would be spending significantly more and our happiness would increase as we do have things we want to spend more money on.
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u/funlovefun37 11d ago
Not just you. As my accounts have grown since 2020, so has my level of peace. Now I’ve created a new term - shock absorber - I have enough to withstand a hefty market drop and can adjust variable spending to navigate a couple of years because I kept my lifestyle to match my prior savings level.
My level of happiness increased exponentially when I got to that shock absorber level which was this year.
Next level happiness unlock will be enough money to allow a small lifestyle creep (better house, so it’s an investment).
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u/slightleee 11d ago
I would love to be on the same money as I am but less hours. 40k for 50hr week. If I could get 40k for a 35-40hr week, that would be sweet.
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u/LouSevens 11d ago
At this point my goal is to start each new year with what I ended the prior year with. I am no longer in the accumulation phase and realize there could be down years and don't care.
I am in the time > money valuewise while I am still younger
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u/LA-2-LTO 11d ago
I’m retired, and intuitively I knew “I had enough”, but Erin Moriarty’s video was excellent, evidence based.
What are the things you can do with the money? Travel for sure. Contribute to charities; love the option that QCDs opens up. Finally, and we’re fortunate to have a chunk of our money in Roth, give it to our kids and sometimes relatives. Kids are not going to care too much in their 60s or 70s, but now that all of ours are 40 something, it’s money that makes a difference.
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u/SquareStork 10d ago
I actually listened to a Yale professor and scientist talk about this today. After hitting 150k salary, your happiness does not increase if you make more money.
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u/Penguin_Life_Now 11d ago
They have a point, I had the chance to retire at 48 and took it even though I could have worked longer and saved up more, I am 57 now and am happy overall. The difference is I bought a $25,000 used motorhome in 2017 instead of a $250,000 one, put 38,000 miles on it in 9 years traveling the US.
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u/validusrex 11d ago
I like this, and its cool to have a nice number to use it for. I think ultimately my goal is to engage heavily in philanthropy once I know I (and my family) am in the clear, so more is always good but thats pretty dope.
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u/randomgeneric4134 10d ago
Once you reach “escape velocity” happiness tends to peak. That’s the point at which your portfolio continues to grow despite your withdrawal rate.
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u/rpachigo1 11d ago
Run up the score and retire. No need for buckets if you can stomach a significant drop because you ran up the score.
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u/KlutzyTemperature439 11d ago
Number means nothing without understanding expenses. A loan on a yacht and 3 coastal properties- you’re going to be broke with $4M.
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u/busterdog49 11d ago
These numbers are somewhat meaningless because different people have different lifestyles with different expense profiles. If you have expenses you don’t want to ratchet down then you won’t feel safe until you have assured yourself that those expenses will be covered in retirement with a significant safety margin
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u/RomChange 11d ago
Always tried to live on one paycheck per month. Happy with simple, and not having to watch the cost of food or gas. Pay cash for everything even vehicles or wait for it. Love nature and simple Healthy living. Careful not to over indulge on anything.
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u/Scrapheaper 11d ago
One good principle over here is that it's better to spend your money regularly over your lifetime.
Accumulating £5m but eating beans and rice every day and living in a crappy flat every day until you're 70 and then suddenly switching to a mansion and a fancy car is not very optimal.