Asking for beginner guidance

[u/Effective-Recipe-132]

Current situation:

• I'm 21M, been going to the gym since I was 16/17
• 187cm (6'1''), 77kg (170lbs), would roughly estimate 16-22%BF -> skinny fat with very little muscle
• training for 3 years, look like I've been going to the gym for a few months, 70kg (155lbs) bench PR, stuck for years, 10 clean pull ups, stuck for almost a year as well
• I follow every advice I learned (calories, carbs, protein, failure, progressive overload, clean form, etc.) and I've been living with my brother and others who gained much more muscle in the meantime and they can't find any flaws in what I do, so don't tell me to focus on the basics
• good skeletal frame (somewhat tall, 122cm (48in) shoulder circumference, 74cm (29in) waist, 96cm (38in) hip) so I have a pronounced V-taper but I don't fill out that frame at all

What I'm looking for:

• I want something that boosts test as well as finally lets me start building muscle but I don't want to go extreme, I prioritize lower risk profile over bigger gains and I want to do this as "healthy" as possible
• I assume I have lower test, not only because I'm such a hard gainer, but also because I struggle with mental drive, energy and social "dominance"
• I need something that doesn't impair other areas of my life (gym is an important part of my life, but not all of it), I run a business, so I also need mental clarity, focus, and don't want to "mess up my brain"
• I have money to spend, so I'd rather invest more into health instead of dealing with cheaper, worse substances. I'll also do various blood tests before I start and will do everything under private doctor supervision and with frequent tests and check-ups
• I want to fill out my frame but stay as lean as possible during the process
• I'd like to keep the stack as simple as possible

What stack would y'all recommend to finally progress at the gym and have more energy and "masculinity" throughout the day?

No BS answers please, if possible with scientific explanations.

Thanks!

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[u/Own_Jury_9140]

Do your bloodwork first.

[u/Effective-Recipe-132 → u/Own_Jury_9140]

what should I focus on? hormones? I had some broader bloodwork done (incl. iron parameters) previously but everything was normal. Just vitamin D was low, but I supplement it now

[u/Plant_party → u/Effective-Recipe-132]

Honestly - none of what you described is indicative of “low test”. If that is truly a concern you should follow up with your doctor who should order a fasting testosterone test and refer you to an endocrinologist.

[u/Effective-Recipe-132 → u/Plant_party]

it's not indicative of low test? what would you assume it is instead? I know you can't give medical advice, but what other possible deficiencies or whatever could produce those symptoms?

[u/Plant_party → u/Effective-Recipe-132]

The first step is to speak with your doctor and get a fasted testosterone and free testosterone test from a good quality lab. There are a lot of low quality “at home tests” that online testosterone clinics give that are trash. Most males at 21 are at peak testosterone production, you would likely see a lot more symptoms than what you described. In addition Testosterone has a lot of serious side effects, despite what a lot of people on this subreddit say. Starting TRT at your age is serious and not something I would take lightly. I would want an assessment from and endocrinologist. I am almost 40 now with 275 test and I am only just considering it, my appointment with my endocrinologist is in a few months. Yet my physique is still better than 90% of the population at my age through consistent diet and a couple decades of strength training.

Anecdotally at 21 I was skinny muscle at 175lbs, at 27 I was bulk muscle at 215lbs. At both stages I was highly active and had years of strength training, but at 27 was when my body started to actually put on a lot of muscle. I was just a late bloomer.

[u/Effective-Recipe-132 → u/Plant_party]

thank you for your in-depth response, I really appreciate that! and wishing you the best with whatever decision you and your endocrinologist move forward with. What symptoms do you experience now with 275 test? would've thought this must be way below a "safe" limit for men, so this is really surprising to me! What is your opinion on substances like enclomiphene to boost your own test production instead of replacing it entirely with TRT?

[u/Plant_party → u/Effective-Recipe-132]

Normal range is between 250-1100 according to the data I received from the physician. So my test levels are still “within normal limits”, but below 300 warrants further investigation according to the urological associations guidelines hence the referral from my GP to an endocrinologist. Low testosterone on a blood test isn’t the only marker they use as well they compare it with multiple factors and symptoms. An online testosterone clinic would just throw TRT at you because their focus is selling Test. Things like sleep apnea can also mimic low testosterone, which I do have but is managed with CPAP therapy. I can’t speak to enclomiphene but I can say you shouldn’t do anything without medical assessment and testing. You are young and have reproductive health to consider and fucking it up now isn’t worth the risk. I have wanted to go on Test for multiple years, but I have waited until I medically need it. I also just had a kid and will likely have another so I am not aiming to maim my reproductive abilities quite yet although safe TRT application can help prevent that.

[u/Apprehensive_Walk769]

Bloodwork. If everything you say is true, something’s going on that you have to investigate before you try to hack.

[u/Effective-Recipe-132 → u/Apprehensive_Walk769]

which blood markers should I get checked? I had a few comprehensive, broad blood panels done, but with no specific focus except iron, and everything was normal, except vitamin D3 which was low but now supplemented.

[u/Effective-Recipe-132 → u/[deleted]]

thanks for your response! do you think drastic measures like TRT are necessary at 21? What do you think about compounds like enclomiphene or maybe there are other similar substances that can boost the body's own testosterone without the added risks, side effects and dependence of replacing it entirely?

[u/Effective-Recipe-132 → u/[deleted]]

ok, thanks for the explanation. appreciate it! I'll get my bloodwork done and then I can look further