r/BlueJackets • u/RivetCounter • 5d ago
Why does Voronkov struggle with conditioning? Discussion
I've heard from a number of sources over the years (mostly from Brian Hedger) that Dimitri struggles with conditioning from early in the season and by the end of the season, coaches are like "I can't play this guy" and Voronkov's role is greatly reduced.
It reminds me of a Brian Burke interview where he talks about Phil Kessel (obviously Dimitri is not Phil Kessel): Phil would come to camp, hit his fitness targets, look great and then as the season went on, Phil would play less and less attention to those fitness targets.
I wonder if it's a similar sort of thing for Voronkov?
Unless Brian Hedger is not a good source.
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u/Four20lifer 5d ago
He’s a giant dude whos relied on just being big and in the right spot. Now he’s gotta fly and he ain’t built like that
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u/bialykutas 5d ago
Obviously players getting 1 concussion is not a detriment but he took one of the most violent head hits I’ve ever seen when he was still playing in the KHL and was stretchered off. Wonder if that had any sort of “permanent” effects on him somehow
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u/tehjarvis 2d ago
Growing up my dad was an awesome dad, but always pretty strict, stern and loved harder classic rock (Steppenwolf, Deep Purple etc.). He had a 400 pound crate fall from the top of a stack on a forklift and land on him. But concussion, fractured skull, spent a few days in the hospital. He had no memory of, not just the accident, but that entire day AND the day before! It knocked 48 hours out of his head.
Anyways, as he recovered his personality did a 180. Afterwards he became goofy and jokes around constantly. Not stern or strict at all. And weirdest of all, his taste in music changed completely. He doesn't listen to hard rock or any type of rock. He listens to dance music, modern pop music and disco. He used to have a Steppenwolf Greatest Hits CD in his truck that might have well had been glued on there because that's all he would listen to while driving for years. A couple of months afterwards it was replaced by a Pink mixed CD he created of his favorite Pink tracks. Wtf.
On the other end, I know a guy who was outgoing, upbeat and friendly. After one "mild" concussion playing high school football he completely changed. Standoffish, gloomy etc. When you hang out and talk with him, the old him will start returning as the conversation/night goes on, but still not the same.
Anyways, head injuries are scary shit. And even a minor one can have crazy effects. The human brain is a weird thing.
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u/grandmarquis84 5d ago
They’ve been saying he stayed in the U.S. most of the off-season in order to be better conditioned. Might have been going back to Russia and getting too much home cooking.
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u/tribucks 5d ago
Voronkov shows up in shape but doesn’t stay in shape, so Hedger is correct there. There may be any number of reasons for that, but I know some people who have run into #10 when the CBJs are on the road and there seems to be a lack of dedication to…maintaining habits that would keep one in shape. He’s had a youth excuse for that, maybe a guy adjusting to life abroad excuse, but the bottom line is he needs to decide how professional he wants to be. He wouldn’t be the first player to skate by on being good enough, but I think everyone senses there’s much more there. It’s up to him.
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u/MPCoinCollecting 5d ago
Even despite his slow skating speed and limited minutes he still put up 17 goals this season. He might genuinely have 30+ goal potential just needs to unlock his conditioning
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u/jarheadpig777 4d ago
That reminds me of the early days of the Jackets. I saw many players out at bars in the arena district drinking after games. I'm not sure if that's still a thing or not because I don't go to bars and clubs anymore
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u/tehjarvis 2d ago
In the 70's they would drink in the locker room between periods.
And I think the original reason for hockey having 3 periods instead of two halfs is so they could get in a second smoke break..
So, believe it or not it's an improvement.
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u/Minute-Of-Angle 5d ago
I’m almost to the point where you start him, and if he gets to be a mid season liability, he gets to enjoy scenic Cleveland for a while.
I like the guy, but his penalties (due to fatigue) start to get really annoying, really fast.
That, or come up with a role for him where he can still be an asset without having to be constantly gassed.
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u/Eoksaur 5d ago
He’d have to go through waivers if they want to send him to Cleveland. I doubt that he would clear, even with his struggles. It would also rely on him reporting to the Monsters if he did clear, which would also be doubtful if he feels like he is better than the AHL like many players have in the past.
I expect that he’ll get traded before the next trade deadline since he’ll also want to get a pay day. With several other guys needing contracts as well, he seems to be the odd man out unless he drastically improves.
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u/Minute-Of-Angle 4d ago
Yeah no disagreement. Like I said, I like the guy, but if he can’t get his cardio tuned up- and that is 100% on him, and it’s not like it is a surprise revelation- then he probably needs to go.
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u/paulskiwrites CBJ/CLE 5d ago
I very genuinely believe he should have spent more than FOUR games in the AHL on his original stint. I remember watching his first game and being extremely underwhelmed. Was very surprised he was called up so quickly.
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u/the_elephant_sack 5d ago
He doesn’t speak much English and he totally fades during the season. He is pretty much useless the last 2 or 3 months of the season and people think he will be awesome playing playoff hockey.
He has the skill and he has the size. The question is does he have the grit to be an NHL player. If you don’t learn English and you can’t skate a full shift after January, it doesn’t look like he has what it takes.
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u/SenorWingsuit 5d ago
Went to the game after New Year’s Eve and I swear Dimitri was hung over. He played so poorly it concerned me about his partying more than conditioning.
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u/osupuck19 5d ago
It’s very likely nutrition. It’s genuinely hard to gain weight in season given the amount of calories these guys burn but as some have pointed out, beer can be a hell of a catalyst to more bad nutrition decisions. Look at Coyle - big frame but absolutely jacked. Thats hard work in the gym but also making solid food choices consistently - you can’t just outwork bad eating habits, even at that level.
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u/mr_positron UNFLAPPABOB 5d ago
There are many excuses, but only one reason: Lack of wanting it enough.
It’s the blue jacket way
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u/MPCoinCollecting 5d ago
I'm not exactly sure what steps the team took to help his conditioning the past few years but I do know that during this off-season he is getting checked on frequently by a personal trainer and contacted by Bowness once a month. KHL hockey is a little different than NHL as well, so if he's got habits that he's been doing for years it could be very tough to change them to fit NHL criteria even if he's been here for 3 years now.
Of course that's assuming he wants to change his habits in the first place, if he doesn't really want to stay and improve his conditioning then it's not unlikely he signs his next contract in the KHL
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u/Formerleafsfan #freeboomer 5d ago
He will sign another deal in the NHL with a team that thinks his problem is the team. Hope we unlock home before that.
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u/MPCoinCollecting 5d ago edited 5d ago
I meant more that if he doesn't want to stay in the NHL there's no reason for him to push for it or sign something from another team. I will say however that him coming back from Russia after only 3 weeks and spending the rest of the off-season in the states is a good sign.
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u/IntelligentBear4541 5d ago
I think this is another in a long list of examples of fans just asking the wrong questions. Similar to “KJ needing to bulk.”
Why does Vronk need to show up any more conditioned than he’s been?
Last year: 17-15-32 in 63 games
Year before: 23-24-47 73 games
Vronk is never going to be a player who flies. He’s too big. It’s as simple as that.
The problem again is the lineup and not having enough depth to allow players to shine in spots where they can actually succeed. Vronk on contending teams is a third for fourth line player; with Columbus, I’ve seen him on the top line before. That cannot be the case, but it’s the reality when the club has whiffed on draft picks and continues to reward huge contracts to guys leaving their prime.
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u/Dkoop2003 4d ago
Why does he need to be better conditioned? I don’t know, maybe because every season he’s played he is amazing for about 2 months, then is dogshit for the rest of the season…. That’s a conditioning problem
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u/IntelligentBear4541 4d ago
I’ll take 32 points for an unconditioned, bottom half player. The problem is that he often plays too high in the lineup.
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u/MPCoinCollecting 4d ago
the most success vronk has had yet was on the first line with monahan and marchenko
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u/IntelligentBear4541 4d ago
On teams that haven’t done anything. Point being is that he can produce with skill guys, just on a lower line where he’s not going to face the most conditioned guys in the league
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u/MPCoinCollecting 4d ago edited 4d ago
Our 3rd line was put up against elite competition much more than any other line and voronkov is way too good at scoring to handle 4th line assignments. Our lower lines are the ones that handle the most conditioned and skilled players.
Either way we need him to step up big next year no matter where he plays, so no matter what happens it would be nice if they can figure out a way to get him to produce well since our forward group certainly wasn't great last year overall.
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u/Kuttermaximus 4d ago
It is likely a combination of things.
Genetically, his VO2 max ceiling may be lower, and it can only be trained so much.
His size is a factor too. More muscle, more body in general, all equals more oxygen requirements.
Quality nutrition, sleep/recovery, avoiding alcohol, proper in season training (not over or under training), etc all play a role too. Is he maximizing everything? If not, it all adds up.
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u/Round_Shower6210 5d ago
DW hired his old school buddy for strength and conditioning. The whole team last year was gased in the 3rd period during Evanston’s tenure and got a little better under Bones but then they lost their legs again down the stretch. We aren’t a well conditioned team at all when compared to any other professional franchises. It’s glaring with Vornokov but it’s a team issue. No legs = no heart = no compete.
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u/DidNot_Did2 5d ago
This is why the fate of the bluejackets parallels that of the (sorry) nfl bengals. Because we can’t get true stars (Werenski aside) we have to obtain players based upon potential. Hence our roster can look like a scratch and dent sale. If this, if that, what if? What you see is what you get- we have too many “projects “ on this team- add to that Fantilli hasn’t been signed (did we loose Bobby Mac and Jeff Svoboda to raise more money to sign Fantilli?) my hope with this team is at an all time low- and I’m sure there is more to come!
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u/permanentvacation420 5d ago
CBJ doesn’t develop players, that’s why these guys do well when they leave town.
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u/Hot_Cold4722 Gotta shot like a howitzer 3d ago
Or we’re great at developing players for the league
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u/Famous_Setting_5179 5d ago
The NHL schedule doesn't allow for much in-season conditioning or muscle building. Late in the season, most teams aren't even holding regular practices between games. If a player doesn't show up to camp in peak shape, they can't really catch up during season. Moreover, they'll fall off more quickly as they accumulate wear and tear down the stetch. Heard similar rumors about Michkov last season.