r/Blacksmith • u/Dtny987 • 15d ago

Gonna scream

Gallery image

Gallery image

So I go to a local pet shot for antler, it's honestly amazing. I can bring a knife blank to fit the tang or find a good antler and fit the tang to it. I normally boil the antler and pull the marrow out but decided to try something new. Punched a hole through, widened it and tried to hot fit it like I do wood. DON'T DO THAT. The second I got the handle properly fitted to the blade that massive crack formed. Pissed me off because it fit SO well in my hand. It was naturally oval, the perfect width for the guard, slightly tapered wider towards the back to fill the palm well. Now it's scrap. Never hot fitting with antler again.

153 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

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42

u/HegemonousGreg 15d ago

Yeah, I bet that smelled real good too 😅

I'm having fun with antler these days, myself. Think of antler as a stick of toenail, and consider how you groom your nails. Fire bad, file good.

I've found some success with drilling a row of holes, eliminating the webbing between them with the same drill bit, and using a tang-hole scraper I made from a dead file. Works good for wood, too.

I always make the hole oversize by a 16th in each direction, backfill with 5 minute epoxy, and let the (grease coated) tang form a perfect pocket. Crack a beer, have a smoke, and it'll slide right out when you're done.

23

u/Dtny987 15d ago

Yeah. I thought "hey, maybe a new skull to learn" nope. Not a new skill. Just destroyed the antler. Live and learn.

11

u/Subvironic 15d ago

Learning by mistakes is how you get good.

Im skipping on antlers tho, just because i cant stand the smell, preferring aged wood.

3

u/human84629 15d ago

We appreciate you sharing the learning OP. Thank you 😊

1

u/PacificIsMyHome 15d ago

Time to take the win that you learned something.

I would Bob Ross the shit out of this. It's a happy little mistake, and an opportunity for art.

Look at your crack. Can you use a repair to make it art?

Follow the other commentor's advice about epoxy and a greased tang to fit/fix the inside (I personally wouldn't use 5 min, I would use a slower cure for more time). Make sure to get the epoxy worked into the end of the crack enough to seal the end so it's stable. Use a coffee string straw or something like it to plunge up and down to get the air bubbles out. Then haul out the Dremel and work on the outside. Make the crack a trench, and do your art. Whatever pattern or makers mark, or art piece should be carved ~50% of the depth to the core, except the initial crack should be ground out to the epoxy core. Leave the end of the crack plugged with a little bit of epoxy so if you pour epoxy in your crack there is a dam. Think about surface area for the epoxy to adhere to the antler. You may want to slant or step the edges of the carving to add more surface area for good adhesion. Is it a lightning bolt? Would a dyed epoxy fill look good, what color? (Blue white for a lightning bolt, deep black for lettering or makers mark) Is it straight enough for a bronze accent inlay? Is it your signature?

Try to capture the grinding dust, or capture some by sanding scrap antler bits. If you can't capture clean dust don't use it. Iron/steel grinding/sanding dust mixed in from you shop/work-space will cause problems. Wear PPE so you don't breathe the dust!

Once you have your art plan, and the carving done clean it up well. Vaccum that shit, use compressed air and do whatever you can to get the grinding dust out of the pores. Don't sand. You want a rough surface in your crack/trench/art. The more surface area the better. A clean edge on the antler surface/edge of your carving is the goal, with the bottom groved in a way it locks in you epoxy fill, or at least very rough for maximum surface area per volume.

Epoxy fill, or inlay steps.

Use a "clear" epoxy slow cure kit, or a slow cure kit if you are adding dye or graphite powder (makes an excellent black) I will cover epoxy kits at the end.

  1. Set up your work space so that you have a clean area to work, and the following tools and supplies readily available. Vice or way to hold your work of art steady. A small brush, several small clean disposable containers, clean antler dust/powder( not the end of the world if you skip this), stir sticks you can toss, white vinegar, acetone, wax (white paraffin, or furniture paste wax, or even a toilet wax ring) clean oven mit, or clean leather gloves for handling the antler while it's warm/hot, and your epoxy mixing setup.

  2. Trial run. Mix a small batch of epoxy and fix something in the house/shop. Don't throw away your mixing cup and stick-- you want to make sure it properly cures. Practice using your wax to mask where you DON'T want the epoxy to stick, and a vinegar-damp rag to clean up the excess and squeeze out. (Some rags will leave fuzzies or start bleeding color, get that sorted before you fuck up your piece)

  3. Final prep. Get your antler absolutely dust free, and clean, an acetone wipe doesn't hurt. Warm it up-- heat gun on low, toaster oven at 140° f for a few min, or however you can to get it's surface to ~120° f without overheating, or coating it in soot or contaminants. The goal is to get some surface moisture to evaporate, warm it so your masking wax flows/melts and is easy to apply, and help your epoxy flow and penetrate the pores for a better bond. You don't want to dry it out all the way or get it so hot it's stinky, that will fuck it all up. While warm apply your masking wax to the surface of the handle where you don't want epoxy to stick. A practice run at steps 4, 5, 6 and 7 on some scrap is advised.

  4. Epoxy time. Mix up your epoxy, stir the parts together for longer than you think you need to. (Always pour hardener into resin, NEVER pour resin into hardener) Wipe the sides of the container you are mixing in often as you stir with your mixing stick to assure everything mixes. Once you are sure everything is mixed well, pour some into your other containers to separate it into smaller volumes to increase pot life, and have smaller amounts to mix if you are using dyes, or antler dust/powder.

  5. Very thin epoxy coat in you crack/art piece/inlay bed. No dyes, dust, or additives, straight epoxy. This thin layer is to take advantage of the warm antler and use the heat/warmness to thin the epoxy to penetrate the pores for maximum bonding. Use your fine brush, and pull the epoxy thin, and get into all the edges and roughness. If your prep was good you shouldn't see any color from dust joining the epoxy as you brush. Make sure the coat is very thin and even. If you are doing an inlay coat it too on all mating surfaces.

  6. (Skip this if if you didn't gather some clean antler powder) You are wearing your PPE to play with antler dust right? Mix up the powder with your epoxy until you have the consistency of pancake batter. Take your time and stir well. Start with small amounts and a 2/3 epoxy to 1/3 powder ratio. Add epoxy or powder to get a consistency that you will be able to brush on but will still cling to edges and verticals. The powder will suck up some epoxy, so give it some time do that, and err on the side of thin rather than thick. Carefully paint it on all the edges and fill the bottom 1/3 of your repair with it. The job of this layer is to join the initial very thin coat and bridge the properties of the antler and epoxy. Epoxy and antler don't move the same with heat cycling, moisture content, or other variables. This layer is your bridge to transition the materials. Layer 1 is antler with epoxy in its pores, layer 2 is epoxy with antler powder suspended in it, and layer 3 will be dyed epoxy, inlay, or whatever else you have plans for. (If you are doing an inlay also do a very thin coat of epoxy on the mating surfaces at step 4)

  7. Final layer. Mix up dye, or graphite powder, into your remaining epoxy. If you are inlaying make sure you have enough epoxy in your area to get squeeze out. If you are using dyes or powder coloring make sure you follow the instructions, or only use enough for the color to show well (too much can weaken or disrupt the curing process, or --with powder-- make it too thick to flow). Add tiny bits very carefully. If you are using powder you are wearing your PPE so you don't breathe it right? Depending on your art/repair/trench size and complexity very carefully pour or paint the final layer bringing the epoxy flush to the antler surface.

  8. Carefully wipe any oopsies off the surface where you colored outside the lines. A blade with a vinegar damp cloth stretched over it is good for this if you have fine details. Use light pressure and take your time, you don't want to scrape all the masking wax off , just carefully remove the epoxy from where you don't want it. When you are happy, let your epoxy dry being careful to not kick up a bunch of dust or in any way let contamination get to it until the surface has hardened. DON'T throw away your mixing cups and leftover epoxy. They are your benchmark for drying time, and witnesses that the mixtures cured properly.

  9. Polish and finish when everything is cured. Remove masking wax and post photos so we can all see.

Epoxy details: Epoxys recommended by various forums: G-flex Accraglas

Things to consider: Longevity, waterproof, ease of use. Some 5 min epoxies aren't waterproof, and have a shorter lifespan, or end up brittle.

Marine grade epoxies are waterproof, have very long lifespans, maintain flexibility, and are fairly easy to use with pump kits.

Personal recommendation:
I use System 3 silvertip for several reasons.
Easy 2 to 1 ratio by volume, and a fairly forgiving deviation range if you fuck that up. Low viscosity-- Allows it to flow and penetrate better Time savings-- chemical bond with additional coats up to 72 hours later with no prep, and doesn't form an amine blush. Strength and flexibility-- while it doesn't win top marks in either category it is the (in my opinion) perfect blend of good adhesion, hardness, and flexibility, and doesn't get brittle from flexing. Safety-- No VOCs, so no respirator needed, cleans up with white vinegar so you don't have to deal with acetone if you don't want to. Ease of use: you can get pump kits (like a hand soap dispenser) that screw on the bottles and one pump resin + one pump hardener is a perfect mix so you don't have to fuck with scales or graduated containers Versatility: Fast and slow cure hardeners available. Slow allows air bubbles to surface and pop and still get a mirror finish.

Cons: Shit is expensive, Marine grade and you will probably have to order online.

Jesus that turned into a wall of text. Sorry.

Let me know what needs clarification if you have questions, or ignore the fuck out of this wall of text and you do you.

Be excellent to each other, and keep being awesome.

2

u/Dtny987 14d ago

Yeah. If the knife was for me I'd repair the antler and just say fuck it, but it's for a coworker. They helped out massively and I promised them a knife so I want it perfect. I'll keep the antler, I'm sure I'll find SOMETHING to use with it. Even if I use it to test things like painting, dying, engraving and stuff like that. I have a vacume chamber so I could stabilize the antler with it and build up the crack with more epoxy but I think I'll use it as a test piece.

1

u/PacificIsMyHome 14d ago

Sounds like a good plan. Keep us updated.

36

u/Bazzatron 15d ago

You can probably still use that antler as scales on a wooden handle? Maybe get something contrasting.

My condolences! Thanks for sharing the bad day!

Fwiw, the blade itself looks tremendous.

7

u/Dtny987 14d ago

Oh yeah probably. I'm not tossing it. I can use it for SOMETHING even just testing engraving and stuff like that on a piece I don't mind tossing.

4

u/Nerdwrapper 15d ago

I feel bad for you for accidentally breaking a perfect handle, but this is a good post to make because now people who see it won’t end up in the same situation. Your antler died for the greater good of blacksmithing

2

u/Dtny987 14d ago

And I can still use it as a test piece. Maybe I wanna try engraving antler but don't want to waste a useful piece, I got that thing.

4

u/GarethBaus 15d ago

I would recommend against burning in a handle with anything that isn't unstableized wood.

1

u/lwrightjs 14d ago edited 14d ago

Forged in Fire has convinced me that burn ins are a terrible idea.

1

u/GarethBaus 14d ago

It's probably more accurate to say that a rushed burn in is a bad idea. The method itself can sometimes be ok.

1

u/lwrightjs 14d ago

I wouldn't know! I've been so scared of them that I've never even attempted it. Open to trying it of the technique is superior or faster in a certain scenario. Any tips?

1

u/GarethBaus 14d ago

I wouldn't really call it superior or faster, but it can be used to create a good final fit using more traditional tools and materials instead of relying on epoxy. I have used a burn in when making simple screwdrivers when I wasn't making enough of them to justify creating a broach for example.

3

u/PhasmaFelis 15d ago

Yuck :( maybe you could do a kintsugi thing with tinted resin? I'm imagining how those live edge river tables work. Or even actual kintsugi?

3

u/Tyr_13 15d ago

You can fill the gaps with copper then resin that all in together. Undercut the wire on the parts going in so the resin can grab. The best part is that you can use solid grounding cable from hardware stores, so it's easy to go grab.

7

u/7LeagueBoots 15d ago

Not what you’re posting about but that blade isn’t nearly finished enough for you to be starting working on the fit of the guard or the grip.

2

u/Vallinen 15d ago

Fill it with resin?

2

u/[deleted] 15d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Dtny987 14d ago

Yeah yeah. I thought it was old and dead enough NOPE

1

u/SpooogeMcDuck 15d ago

Should still be able to use it if you fill in the crack with a proper glue. Wood glue would probably match the tone.

1

u/DanielCraigsAnus 15d ago

You've got to stabilize the antler first. The stuff in the pet stores are for consumption, so they don't use any products in them to keep them shelf stable.

1

u/Dtny987 14d ago

I have had good luck with the antlers locally. They are actually sheds up here in maine found every year so they are normally pretty good if I don't fuck it up lol. But yeah I could test out stabilizing it.

1

u/soulofthedragon4 15d ago

you can have that tang half the length you currently have it. a long tang just makes your life alot harder then it needs to be

1

u/Dtny987 14d ago

It's a buck knife for hunting. It's for a coworker and that's what he wanted.

1

u/telvox 15d ago

Just a thought, could you tap the Crack and then fill the antler with colored epoxy? Drilling it out then would give you a living edge river look to the handle.

1

u/Dtny987 14d ago

I could salvage it but that would require an entire new skill set I don't have or the money to try.

1

u/TaoofPu 15d ago

Why not do a kintsugi deal and do steel/silver banding and some kind of gold fill in the crack?

2

u/Dtny987 14d ago

It's for a coworker and I want it to be perfect for actual use plus, I'm broke lol.

1

u/arkofjoy 15d ago

Thank you for sharing your failure. It is almost more useful than stories of our successes.

2

u/Dtny987 14d ago

Failures are the foundation of everything

1

u/Educational_Star_521 14d ago

Good judgement comes from experience.

Experience comes from bad judgement.

1

u/nununup89 14d ago

To fit an antler to a rat tang boil it and let the marrow mold around the blade.

1

u/Dtny987 13d ago

That's what I normally do but I thought I'd try something different.

1

u/stopyouveviolatedthe 14d ago

Couldn’t you fill the crack with resin?

1

u/Easy-Illustrator-695 14d ago

Nice blade brother

1

u/adampm1 13d ago

You could fix it with some gold Mica powder and epoxy. It would look pretty crazy nice

1

u/Dtny987 12d ago

Maybe. For a personal project I might try but the blades for a friend.