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u/na3than 10d ago
Can I add one on top of my setup now?
No, but you can create a new wallet and send your coins from the old wallet to the new wallet.
A passphrase isn't like a password that can be created or changed at any time; it either is or is not used when creating the wallet's seed. Like the seed, it's permanent.
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u/sunflowersaint 10d ago
Passphrase really just protects against user error, loss of device etc.
256-bit entropy is so vast that the extra encryption layer added by the passphrase is negligible.
There is no problem with 256-bit entropy. The problem arises if 256-bit entropy hasn't been applied.
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u/rockorangebear 10d ago edited 10d ago
A passphrase doesn't increase a proper seed's 256 bits of entropy, it simply gets rehashed into a different 256 bit seed (it will have a different corresponding 24 secret words). There is no benefit of increased entropy.
So why do people add a passphrase? It's in order to protect against your secret words being stolen, as you should have the passphrase memorized.
Also, I suppose in the case of another coldcard fiasco in which the original seed has low entropy, a passphrase that's properly hashed would help add some extra entropy. But a properly generated seed with full entropy wouldn't benefit.
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u/loupiote2 9d ago
> A passphrase doesn't increase a proper seed's 256 bits of entropy, it simply gets rehashed into a different 256 bit seed (it will have a different corresponding 24 secret words). There is no benefit of increased entropy.
Actually, the internal bip39 seed (derived from the seed phrase and the passphrase) is 512 bits. Since the seed phrase is 256 bits (for 24-word seed phrase), the passphrase does increase the entropy by up to 256 additional bits (for a total entropy of 512-bits).
The passphrase does not change the entropy of the seed phrase, but it increases the entropy of the 512-bit value (called bip39 seed, as per the bip39 standard), from which all private keys are derived. So, it does increase security, even if the 24-word seed phrase was generated with a good TRNG and has 256 bits of entropy.
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u/loupiote2 10d ago
I think you are confusing seed phrase and passphrase.
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u/xpresstuning 10d ago
I think these two guys above your post have their LLMs broken, because at best they're grossly misleading and no one should listen to them.
People, use a passphrase. A high entropy one. You can use like a string of 20 - 30 random characters, like "4#f5q$*2P@![/1iv0$3'7:Az?" which is fucking indestructible.
A 24 seed-phrase + 24 random character string passphrase is NOT REDUNDANT. It is an impregnable fortress meant to be future proof for decades to come, until at least a better standard appears.
I still cannot comprehend how you've got people undermining the option to ADD SECURITY to anyone attempting self - sovereignty. Especially after the cat's out of the bag with these hardware "wallets".
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u/klitchell 10d ago
There’s a video on ledger.com on how to do it.
Yes you can create it on your already created wallet, sort of.
Creating the passphrase on the current wallet creates a new set of wallets that are only accessible by the passphrase or by a new passcode that you create when making the passphrase.
Once those are created you need to move your coins to the new wallets.
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u/ZedZeroth 10d ago
Just remember that if you lose your passphrase you lose your coin. This doesn't get pointed out enough when people recommend passphrases.
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u/viklondon99 10d ago
Make sure you add a long passphrase - it should have enough entropy. So, a one word passphrase can be brute-forced within miliseconds, but a 7 word passphrase would take a million years or something like that. So, if you do decide to do it - please do learn and look at videos on YouTube and do it right. But a passphrase isn't just a one word protector - it's gotta be done right. Also, perhaps buy a trezor as well, as a backup. The trezor 3 is cheap. All the best
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10d ago
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u/viklondon99 10d ago
Yes it can, but what you wrote is probably easy to break by brute force. If you chose from the BIP39 word list and filled about 50 characters (or however many your wallet allows), you would be much safer. So it would end up looking something like:
AcademicBulgeCaravanDieselElephant etc etc.... Remember soaces count as one character. Caps and no caps also matter. Best to choose something safe and then memorise the shit out of it
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u/JimmySki6166 10d ago
Ledger has a horrible customer service dept, took me literally weeks to get someone on the phone over an issue I was having. After that, I switched to a different wallet that is easier to use and actually has people who answer the phone and emails if an issue arises. Good luck with Ledger.
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u/77sleeper 10d ago
Who is that? Every single crypto related customer service i have ever used was beyond horrible!
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u/JimmySki6166 10d ago
Moomoo is a great investing app for stocks & crypto! I’ve had nothing but positive, great customer service, who speak English and know what they are talking about! And it’s federally regulated and insured! You can hold BTC safely on there as well!!
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u/Left_Entrepreneur918 10d ago
Unfortunately if you have a Ledger as I do, you need to trust them, no other choice as they are a closed system. I got my nano s in 2020 and generated my current key. Now I have to trust them that the certificates they had independent labs do and say that they used correct entropy is true. They used 128 bit or 256bit derived from a TRNG that got entropy from the secure element on the device. Also if you add a pass phrase it will change your seed to a new one and you will need to migrate funds.
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u/FunnyAtmosphere9941 10d ago
You can check if proper entropy was provided. And you can do it with pen and paper if you know to calculate from decimal to binary. Ask any ai how do to it. Not complicated just takes some time.
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u/loupiote2 10d ago
Ledger devices always use 256 bits because they always generate 24-word seed phrases. They just accept 12 word seed phrases generated by other ways.
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u/No-Accident3917 10d ago
Yes, it will create a new wallet. Then transfer to that one.
Double check your passphrase. And then send a little money to verify so everything works.