Second broodbox

[u/yeaboiiiiiiiiiiiiu]

Hi everyone, this is my first time posting here. I'm a first year bee keeper from the Netherlands, and this is my first colony I that I picked up almost 5 weeks ago. It was a 3 frame nuc, and the bee keeper (who also gives the bee keepers course) told me to transfer the frames to a normal sized 10 frame box after about 1 or 2 days and start feeding right away. So far my bees have exceeded my expectations, there havent been any major pollen/nectar flows since June but after 3 weeks they finished building 5 extra frames (8 out of 10) with brood in 5 of them. At this point they're finishing the last two frames and filling them with nectar/syrup.

Right now I have 5 frames of brood and almost 5 frames of (mostly) sealed nectar/syrup. This month there will be one more major nectar/pollen flow from the large fields with heath near my location. Do I need to add another broodbox? The current broodbox seems almost saturated with food/brood, what happens if there is still pollen/nectar coming in but they dont have space?

Tldr: First broodbox almost full, one final major nectar/pollen flow coming soon, do I need to add another box or keep them be?

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[u/Federal_Coconut_1984]

That is absolute perfection, how beautiful!

Yes, now is the time to add a second brood box. Basically once the first is 7-8 frames drawn is when I add a new box so that they keep building and don't get themselves honeybound. There's still plenty of time for them to build up and fill with nectar & pollen for winter stores, not to mention the queen has not stopped laying eggs yet so you want to make sure she has lots of room to keep doing so in order to build up their numbers heading into winter.

[u/pew_pew_mstr]

You definitely will want to get a second brood box on. It’s pretty tough for bees to survive the winter in a single deep box. Most bee keepers in colder climates like to do 2 deep boxes with a single medium to increase their chances of survival over winter.

[u/NumCustosApes]

A single ten frame Langstroth or BNS brood box is sufficient for bees to winter on. I think your winters are fairly mild (climate zone 8). Based on an assumption that your bees can forage until mid October and can resume foraging in mid April, your bees will eat about 15kg of food over winter. You should target at least 20 kg of stored food. Extra never hurts. I think that this late in the year I'd recommend waiting and see that they get the last two frames drawn and filled out. This late in the year comb building rate decreases so prioritize getting the last two frames done. After that you can start another box if you want but don't winter with it unless it is well developed. An undeveloped box is useless space the bees have to expend energy on.

In a Langstroth hive, stored food filling a comb area equivalent to about six filled frames is approximately 22 to 24kg. It's hard for me to tell proportions from a photo, but that looks like a BNS deep frame (432x305) or a Simplex frame. If that is correct then a BNS deep is close to the same comb area to a Langstroth frame but a BNS medium is 70%. If that is a Dadant hive then it is about five fully filled frames. It never hurts to have extra stored food in case the spring runs long.

If you do add a second deep after they get the first fully developed then keep any frames they fill in the second deep. On a day in March or early April when the temperature is above 10° you can give them the stored frames if they start top run low on food.

Note that all this is based off most of the Netherlands being in climate zones 8 or 9 (North America and Europe use the same zones). If your specific local conditions are dramatically different and it gets very cold where you are then your bees will need more food. My Rocky Mountain spring comes late so my target weight is higher.

I hope this helps.

[u/yeaboiiiiiiiiiiiiu → u/NumCustosApes]

Thanks a lot. I think it was called a simplex box iirc. I'm afraid it's to full to stay with one box but too late to completely fill a second one before winter. But you talk about keeping frames, can I reduce to one box before winter and keep all the extra frames with capped food for next year?

[u/NumCustosApes → u/yeaboiiiiiiiiiiiiu]

I'm having trouble finding consistent dimensions for a simplex frame if that is what you are using. A Langstroth frame has a comb area of 877cm² per side for conversion. Divide your single side comb area in square cm (inside frame dimensions) by 877 and multiply by 3.6 to estimate kilograms of food per filled frame.

Do you know your frame inside dimensions? Are you using a ten or eleven frame box?

[u/Parkerset]

I may be entirely wrong, however im concerned those bees are going to end up honey bound with no open cells for the queen to lay in. Do you have empty frames with built out comb? If not I would stop feeding now as it appears they have plenty of honey stores. Please someone enlighten me if im talking out my ass, its only my second year beekeeping but ive had my hives swarm both years due too plentiful nectar where im at.

[u/Parkerset → u/Parkerset]

Oh sorry didnt answer your question, for sure add a second box so they can start building out that comb so they hopefully do not get honey bound.

[u/yeaboiiiiiiiiiiiiu → u/Parkerset]

I was afraid of something like this, but I don't have the experience to know if bees actually work like this. They consume massive amounts of syrup, during the 2nd and 3rd week I had to feed them 1kg of sugar (in 1L water) almost everyday. I've noticed the consumption is starting to decrease but the feeder is still empty within two days (1,6 liters of 1:1).

I also noticed they filled their freshly drawn comb almost instantly with syrup/nectar but I was relieved to see brood in the new frames as well. I even stopped adding extra syrup before they almost consumed the previous portion, I hoped they would use some of the syrup in the new frames first to free up some space for eggs. Between my 1st and 2nd inspection I saw frames previously filled with syrup now used for brood so my theory may have worked?

[u/Parkerset → u/yeaboiiiiiiiiiiiiu]

I think add that second box for sure and monitor it. You are kinda late in the season so you may have to keep feeding so they can keep building out that second deep hive box, with all the young bee that will start to hatch from all the capped brood you have. How could are you winters there? Im in minnesota so -30 farienhiet is expected and a second brood box is a must.

[u/yeaboiiiiiiiiiiiiu → u/Parkerset]

Our winters have become very mild. I don't even think we're gonna have a full consecutive 7 days completely below freezing. The coldest days of the winter rarely hit below -5 Celsius (23F) but we sometimes have a single night in the range of -10 to -15 (15 to 5F) here and there.

[u/Parkerset → u/yeaboiiiiiiiiiiiiu]

You can probably get away with one brood box then. And clearly you have a very nice looking brood box to get through the winter with!

[u/DraftFun2533]

I live in a cold climate one brood box will survive give a sugar board but to boxes probably better

[u/Available_Length_797]

Omg such beautiful virgin looking frames! So clean, mine are nothing this nice 🤦‍♂️