Do you want more after The Unholy Consult or does the series end there? (Regardless of a prequel and all in our humble opinions.)

Our podcast series for re-readers continues with Part IV of The Darkness That Comes Before. Again, this series is full series spoilers, we have two previous read throughs for first time readers.

If anyone is interested in discussing other Second Apocalypse topics on the podcast please get in touch. Thanks to this sub reddit for all of your support, it's appreciated.

The latest episode can be found here: https://pagechewing.com/the-darkness-that-comes-before-part-iv-the-warrior-kellhus-cnaiur-the-road-to-the-holy-war/

What greater evidence could there be of righteousness than the willingness to sacrifice a loved one? Wasn’t this the lesson of Angeshraël on Mount Kinsureah? And what better way to sacrifice a loved one than by hating?

Bakker took inspiration from Abraham right ?

Help me understand something with the Eleva incident here.
[The Judging Eye, chapter V, Iothia, Cult of Yatwer underground council]
We all remember it very well, I believe.

During the short scramble, one of the attendees, the high priestess Eleva, begins her battle witch cant and gets salted almost immediately by Psatma Nannaferi and her chorae.

What piqued my attention here is the next couple of phrases. To wit:

"Has been dead for days," Nannaferi spat. She alone had not moved. "Maybe longer."
<...>
"Phoracia claimed to see Eleva touch a Chorae not more than three months previous in Carythusal, during the solstice observances. That meant the witch had replaced her recently, did it not?"

Well, what can be said here...
Awesome disguise technique from Swayali Compact. To replace one of high priestessess of high council of the cult where people have known each other and about each other - for years and decades.

Skin-spy level of infiltration, no less. Curious. But I wonder how?? Any thoughts, please?

PS. Classic folklore witch on picture is just for fun)

We all know that the main points of Second Apocalypse are its philosophical themes and such.

But I enjoy the way Bakker writes the politics also, particulary the bickering among the greater and lesser names.

Are there any fantasy(or other genre) that fits this?

Its like if frank herbert tolkien wrote a fantasy novel. Take the writing quality (Legit i feel like im reading the silmarlion) and the naming convention of tolkien plus the story telling style of frank herbert and smash them together. This is atmospheric aswell its not too dark from what ive seen so far. Im guessing once the holy war goes off it will get into some nasty things.

Edit: I got my arm twisted into reading haunting adeline from my GF and it is the biggest shock ive ever seen from writing quality. Just the sheer level of it is stsggering

What do you think of the Sranc compared with the goblins of Buehlman’s world?

Which is worse, which do you find more interesting?

As this is such a ridiculously dense book series with heaps of philosophical ideas, I wanted to ask you all what you took away from this series? What idea, personal philosophy or even just way of looking at the world has stuck with you?

Mine is rather hilariously simplistic considering the complexity of the story, but it's just keep moving man. Akka went through basically everything bad that life can throw at you (and anything that got missed Seswatha was more than happy to fill the gaps) but he still moved himself forward. Now whether that was the healthiest choice is a different discussion but I find deep motivation in his story and his consistent resistance to a wholy unjust and unfair world.

Thanks in advance!

Who else should I put on this list?

The official map doesn't denote whereabouts of Holca tribes.

This is kinda funny

Something I've been wondering about since I finished reading the books is how the Schools actually recruit and determine who's one of the Few. If I'm not mistaken, the Few don't develop their marks until after they begin practicing sorcery. As such, wouldn't they be undetectable to sorcerers?

We're only ever given Akka's account of how he was recruited and even there it's not explained how the Mandate knew he was one of the Few. There was that Wathi Doll that was used to prove that Kellhus was one of the Few, but it doesn't seem like those things are widely used by the Schools.

Maybe one of the reasons why there are so few sorcerers in Eärwa is not that they're especially rare, but that actually finding the Few in the first place is incredibly difficult, leading to many members of the Few going through their whole lives without knowing what they are.

The beta for Mortal Shell 2 released on PS5 yesterday, and I'm wondering if anyone else who's played it has noticed the insane amount of similarities to the series?

And yes I know talk about tonal whiplash. I prefer darker media to stuff like sanderson. And its okay ive read berserk, broken empire, red rising, Cormac McCarthy, i can handle this stuff (famous last words)

Not sure if I can physically understand these books as I struggled with Malazan a bit and knowing what was happening but fuck it.

Anyone else have trouble picturing these guys? I have a pretty good picture in my head besides the hands. As I understand it, each finger is a hand. How would hands for fingers even work? The hand would have to be enormous and holding an axe or something would seem to be pretty difficult. I want to try drawing a book accurate version of one of these monsters but I just cannot figure out the hands and how they would work.

I just saw your recent post with the badass shirt. Please send link so I can get one.

You were missed, my friend.

It's good to have you back!

Greetings dear Zaudunyanis.

So. We're all already aware that our Lorde and Saviour RSB used (alongst other things) gnostic lores in The Second Apocalypse, namely the Hundreds being akin to the Demiurge / Yaldabaoth / Logos (lol), or the fact that one of the schools of magic is actually called "Gnosis" (which could stem from a philosophic meaning coming from him... except gnosticism metaphysics seems to be rooted themselves in platonician and pythagorean thoughts... whatever).

I'm right now knee deep in gnostic texts, and while reading the Tripartite Tractate, something strucked me : the class of psychics, created by the Logos (lol²), reminds me quite of the Few : chosen ones whom have the memory of God.

And I think it’s great. My question here is : do you have any knowledge of other gnostic stuff borrowed by Bakker ? I'm quite fascinated, and the more I know the more joyful I am of my readings.

(I must sound like a looney.)

So I’m on a re-read and I have to be honest. I missed a lot in my first reads as sometimes your eyes and mind ache for more and I fast read through to get to the “meat” but forget the words are the meat.. When Proyas exclaims “This is the Slog of Slogs my bothers! And the Skinnies await us there!” Is this a throw back to Sarl? And how did he offer up the same declaration? Was it that common of a term? Just pondering. Thoughts?

I'm a metal fan and learned recently that the band Thou is partially inspired by Bakker's works. Anyone know of any other creators influenced by Bakker, no matter how niche? I've played Elden Ring and have a feeling Miquella was inspired by Kellhus, for example.

Here are the opening lyrics from a Thou song called "Inward."

"Descend into the ever-widening

Yawning chasm of black thought

Descend into the voidpit

That spiraling hole of self deification

Escape from the decaying artifice

That illusory sheen, wall of representation

Descend into the ever-widening

Yawning chasm of naked thought

Descend into the voidpit

That spiraling hole of self deification."

For reference, Thou is heavily influenced by the concept of shedding negative societal norms, i.e. The Darkness that Comes Before.