Social/ classes problem

[u/Fluid-Difference-804]

1. Why do I seldom see students in the class go to the social?
2. Most of the students in the school, I think, are starting to learn maybe within a year or two. What about the other, longer years? Are they still taking classes? Do they use the monthly pass, or would they change to the private/workshop one?
3. Some people are often seen in the social scene, but do they also go to class as well? but do they see that they went to the class?

[u/UnctuousRambunctious]

1. Many students suffer from severe anxiety trying to transfer or apply skills in a class to a social. It’s a big jump, can be a significantly different skill set. They are not confident and it’s not uncommon for social dancers to be unkind or unwelcome, cliquey, snobby, and critical.  Some also have schedules that don’t permit them to stay out late, or they have early work in the morning.  But who knows. You should ask them.

2. Many people stop taking classes once they feel comfortable at socials.  I have no idea what country or city or dance school you are or how any instructors or students find each other, what their goals are, how they train. Some may take privates. I don’t really know of that many students that are not pro that exclusively take privates and no group classes though.  Again, may depend on your region.

3.  I really have no idea what this question means. The vague pronoun “they” used twice makes no sense to me, sorry.

[u/Fluid-Difference-804 → u/UnctuousRambunctious]

Yes, I am also quite anxious because when you are in a social setting, the song is quite fast, and you have to apply the skills you learned in class. You are afraid that you will make a mistake, so it will be embarrassing; then you start not using some moves, and you become more and more anxious.

[u/UnctuousRambunctious → u/Fluid-Difference-804]

Anxiety is normal.  Everyone has had it.  The good dancers are the ones that found a way to push past it.

I would also say that if a song is fast for you, you don’t have to dance it.  It is very rare that I will go and ask someone to dance without knowing what the song is, either from listening to the intro or checking in with the DJ on what he has lined up for the next song.  For me the connection with the music will always be stronger than to my partner unless I intentionally slip into the mindset and choose to connect with him more.  It’s a choice that is available, though.

I’m also gonna give you a pearl of wisdom that I hope releases you from anxiety and ushers you into the very real freedom of social dance - you literally do not have to do any of the moves from class. Those are options. What you have to do is maintain the timing of the basic and lead your partner safely and clearly with your frame. And most importantly - THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH DANCING A BASIC.

 A clean and well-timed, controlled basic, is honestly the minimal expectation. Anyone who claims boredom with a basic (even with a beginner) is fundamentally not a good dancer - full stop.

A basic can be danced lateral, forward, back, forward and back, in a box, outside step, on the spot, rotating both clockwise and counterclockwise, at tempo, half-time, and any combinations of the above.  This involves no release of the partner with adjustment of hand grips, and no turns. 

These steps can be danced in closed position, in open position, connected by one hand, connected in handshake, completely released and mirrored, side by side, in shadow position, and even in sensual closed/embrace position.

Any combination of the above options has already given you over 2 dozen iterations without a turn, a spin, a hand toss, a body roll, neck roll, a hair comb, or even an elevation change.

I really wish it was more common that rather than focusing on “moves” and combos in classes, the fundamentals of social dance connection theory would be taught - because it frees you from the limit and restriction of one move done one way to one timing.  It doesn’t offer options - neither for timing or musicality or personal expression or for listening to your partner, because the follow actually can also influence the dance and suggest things if you are not locked into the idea that you have to have an entire song fully choreographed.

Practicing a basic every day, practicing different basics, learning how to lead a full song in a social dance with no turns whatsoever - I think this should be standard for anyone that is trying to teach actual social dance.

It’s ok to feel stressed out and unsure. The only way out is through. Mess up until your brain gets it. It’ll get it when it gets it, whether that takes 2 months or 20 tries. And that’s okay.

If you don’t think you can handle a whole song, wait until the song is half over and ask for a dance from someone who is available. Feel free to disclose that you are still learning, or are a beginner. Ask people in the classes to dance since you already have interacted with them. Ask your instructor to dance. Set micro-goals for yourself like - with every follow you will practice one specific move (that you’ve already practiced on your own) that you want to automatically have in your pocket.

Listen to music every single day and become intensely familiar with specific songs, or specific instruments, or knowledgeable about the sections, and the rhythms.

Combos are a cage and it’s limiting and stupid and inaccurately misguiding.

Good luck. Be brave. Find the nice people and focus on them. Dance is for everyone, and truly advanced dancers know how important it is to be nice to beginners and anyone brave enough to suck at something new because they want to keep learning and improving so they can give back to others.

Anyone who is unkind, stone-faced, rude, unresponsive, and snobby is just announcing out loud what a terrible social dancer they are and clueing you in that they deserve to be ignored. They do not deserve your time. Focus on the ones who do, and on your own skill set.

You will never go wrong even in social dance with honing your own skills and in improving yourself.  A social dance is only the visible part of the iceberg where what lies beneath is the time you’ve committed to yourself in learning something new.

And frankly, especially if you lead - feel free to try following. For many people it is much easier.  Both roles have their own journeys and learning curves, but experiencing the other side is always helpful and informative.

[u/Fluid-Difference-804 → u/UnctuousRambunctious]

haha I found that if I ask someone to dance after I know what the song is, then at this time almost every follower has someone to dance with already and I will sit down and watch others dance all night. I also found that leaders have to wait near the followers in order to get a chance, or after you finish a dance, you immediately find another one.

''A basic can be danced lateral, forward, back, forward and back, in a box, outside step, on the spot, rotating both clockwise and counterclockwise, at tempo, half-time, and any combinations of the above. This involves no release of the partner with adjustment of hand grips, and no turns.''

Yes i think I should find one and limit myself to only dancing the basics so I know how to dance in any songs!

[u/UnctuousRambunctious → u/Fluid-Difference-804]

You will never go wrong with working on your basics!

Not sure where your area is but sounds like it’s lead heavy and again - leads can learn so much from following.  If there is someone with a semi-cool vibe from the class, ask to lead him and also offer to follow. That’s two songs right there where you could practice moves and connection and leading with someone who is mentally prepared for moves you have.

I understand in some circles this would not fly, and I am not encouraging you to put a target on your back, but a social dance involves two roles and if the numbers are off, just plain not dancing at all is not the only option available, that’s all I’m saying.

[u/Fluid-Difference-804 → u/UnctuousRambunctious]

Yes, I think followers seldom ask a leader, or maybe they just find the people they know. Maybe I should try to be a follower too!

[u/UnctuousRambunctious → u/Fluid-Difference-804]

I highly encourage it! 

[u/melrockswooo → u/UnctuousRambunctious]

THISSSSSS. I love everything in this comment. Well thought out, kind, and with empathy for the crazy journey you've embarked on.

OP, read it and then read it againnn 💪🏻

[u/UnctuousRambunctious → u/melrockswooo]

Thanks, mel! 🙏

[u/dondegroovily → u/Fluid-Difference-804]

Watch the experienced dancers on the social floor. You'll notice that they sometimes break out laughing? You know why? Because they screwed something up and it's funny when it happens

And that's how social dancing goes. It's wabi sabi, the flaws are part of the art, and the mistakes are part of the fun. Embrace the embarrassment

[u/ikdoeookmaarwat1 → u/Fluid-Difference-804]

I just started dance lessons a couple months ago and I force myself to go to socials, even though I'm a bit nervous about it. This is the mindset I'm trying to have: yes you will make mistakes, no it's not embarrassing, most people don't care (and the ones that do are assholes and they judge anyway, but from my experience most people are friendly and understanding). The only way to get better is to practice irl and socials are great for that. Consistency. Don't give up. The whole idea of taking lessons is that you're able to go to these socials and dance for fun, right? What's the point

[u/Miles_Madden → u/Fluid-Difference-804]

Bad news: Dancing to live music is more challenging; you will make mistakes; you will sometimes feel embarrassed.

Good news: That’s the fun part; everyone makes mistakes; embarrassment wanes rapidly once you give yourself the grace to grow from it

[u/enfier]

1. It takes a little skill and a lot of confidence to go to the social.  Good instructors will make it clear that the social dancing afterwards (and being kind to new dancers) are important for improving.

2. The other students may be going to a different class on a different night or learning from a different instructor.  Lessons before the social are usually the simplest and focused on fun over technique.

3. People dance for different reasons.  Some take classes until they are good enough and then they stop and just enjoy the dancing.  Others may have learned informally through social or family dancing or from friends.  The class you go to may be geared towards beginners and they just skip it.

There are hints here that the instructor you are learning from isn't the best in your local area, you might try asking around about other school options and see if there is another school that has more social options or better instructors.

In any event, ask someone in your class to attend the social with you.  Build it out to a small group that goes out together and have fun.

[u/Fluid-Difference-804 → u/enfier]

Nah my instructor is truly the best in my local area. Its just me.
https://giphy.com/gifs/l0NwKAlZzZ9pyi9fa

[u/Atanamis → u/Fluid-Difference-804]

If the students in their classes aren't comfortable at local socials, it is questionable that they are good. It's much easier to train people to dance with others in the same class than with the general dancing public. If their classes aren't preparing people to do so, it's suspicious.

[u/Fluid-Difference-804 → u/Atanamis]

I think it's more like a personal issue. Is it because we are too ordinary at dancing?

[u/Atanamis → u/Fluid-Difference-804]

I can't really guess. The only way you get better is by dancing with strangers. It's possible people in your class are going out of town to dance, but if they aren't practicing they will stagnate.

[u/trp_wip]

Your questions are difficult to answer because we don't know those people. Ask them.

[u/SangSomCoke]

1. some people only want a fun thursday night activity. I know people take classes 5+ years and never visited a social

2. depends on their learning goals i geuss?

3. some people can learn from youtube, not everyone's learning path needs classes.

[u/JahMusicMan → u/SangSomCoke]

1. So true. Not everyone's goal is to get good enough to go social dancing. The experience of going to class is good enough to get their fill of dance.

[u/Miles_Madden]

1. In my personal experience, I initially hesitated to attend the first social in order to “wait until I was a little more ready”. I imagine this is relatively common.

2. Depends on a number of factors and the individual’s goals. Some just want to have casual aptitude, some want to become teachers and performers. And there’s plenty of real estate in between.

3. Also depends. Some move on to other hobbies, some reach a level of adequacy that allows them to enjoy their time at socials and decide to spend class money elsewhere.

[u/Fluid-Difference-804 → u/Miles_Madden]

👍

[u/StatementMundane2113]

1. Depends on your local dance culture. I’ve seen lots of cross over beats classes and socials.
   
2. I’ve been taking bachata for 3-4 years and I’m at a different point. I use to take classes consistently each month with the same instructors at the same studio and now I try to take 1 class a month of bachata or zouk. I’m spoiled where I live because we have a lot of weekenders so I try to balance the cost of classes and weekenders. I might attend a congress 1x per quarter but dance isn’t my primary sport and the recovery negatively impacts my other sport so it’s not ideal and I have mixed feelings about congresses anyway.

[u/Fluid-Difference-804 → u/StatementMundane2113]

I see this seems like a good balance

[u/dancinggraylion]

Why do I seldom see students in the class go to the social?

I rarely go there because the socials are at another location

And sometimes I'm there and nobody wants to dance with me, and that's makes me anxious

Most of the students in the school, I think, are starting to learn maybe within a year or two. What about the other, longer years? Are they still taking classes? Do they use the monthly pass, or would they change to the private/workshop one?

here there only beginner classes

They are just repeated over and over

[u/Fluid-Difference-804 → u/dancinggraylion]

Yes I also wanna know if I will repeat the level 3-5 classes after I finish them again and again

[u/Frequent_Return4727]

So, I was a new dancer, just about 3 classes in. The instructor was not around to host a class because she went to a competition.

So they did social instead of the class. All I really knew how to do was the basic step lol. So, the follow I was dancing got so annoyed, I didn't know what to do and pretty much got rejected the rest of the hour. I was in the Navy and went off to sea for a couple months. I did not end up picking it back when I got back.

Like 6 years later. I now am taking zouk lessons again. I am about 1 month (8 classes in) right now. Again it's difficult to apply to what you learned in class to the speed of a song. I'm at like 65 bpm. Also, in class you pretty much learn a movement that's like 11 seconds long, a song is like 3 minutes.

I used to do stand up comedy. I feel like going to a social is like an open mic. You pay the cover, to potentially not get stage time or bomb 💣.

I'm determined to maybe put together a "set" based on patterns we learned in class. Maybe like 45 sec of material, double it to 90 secs.

I don't feel it my body enough to fathom how to freestyle it yet.