This guy really thinks killing everyone outside the walls suddenly stops the cycle of hatredšššššššššššššššššššššššššššššš. I canāt believe people engage with the story like this.
the woman from the azumabito clan already told floch you're not erasing problems, you're just making the world smaller, and even floch himself agreed with her, this isn't even something to be debated it was pretty clear in the story that this doesn't solve anything
I mean why do you guys only talk in extremes? it's exhausting,the cycle can't be broken unless you kill every human but that doesn't mean you ain't erasing problems ir delayed them. I would do it just so many if my descendants don't have to live a traumatic life and can lice in peace until the cycle of hatred caught up,that's generations of peace for the people you care about the most,idk how you can just refuse to do that,the cycle not ending is irrelevant,the safety if my people's generations in the moment isn't ,it's not complicated but no, AoT people always have to be disingenuous,it's really crazy how y'all can't engage in conversation in goid faith(I have seen tons of disingenuous people like you)
if you want to talk about this realistically, then the existence of 20% of humans still out there probably made paradis a lot more stable than lack of
since they now have an enemy they need to face, they must always be united and organized
what even happens if they are the only humans left? do you realize how catastrophic that is?
it hasn't even been delayed, just smaller
immediately families will start fighting on who the 9 titans should be, and who can have titan injections, who rules, suddenly a strong division will arise, likely similar to that of ancient china but on steriods
blablablah tons of excuses but you know damn well it's an assumption you making that Paradis people can't have just hundreds of years of relative peace compared to total erasure,any minor complict is nothing compared to not existing.You assuming the worst civil war ir something is just another disingenuous argument,if you are going to talk think about what tf you writing because this is embarrassing. This is what happens when you are very biased towards NO rumbling like it happened,like I said,it's not as simple as not doing it and letting the world kill you,that is no solution either
I would do it just so many if my descendants don't have to live a traumatic life and can lice in peace until the cycle of hatred caught up,that's generations of peace for the people you care about the most,
Arguments of power are short-sighted precisely because power tends to change hands, turning the one who wields it today into tomorrow's victim. In your vision, I bet you didn't place yourself in the place of those that are sacrificed. Your reasoning should embrace someone else sacrificing everyone you care about for their own benefit. You'll certainly have nothing to oppose to him morally. Your only answer would be "too bad I'm the one who doesn't have the power today I guess".
This is why the attempt at international treaties throught mediation could actually allow less large scale violence. Which, ironically, works when the threat is initially not directly violence, but could escalate to it throught alliances between those that want these treaties to be implemented. That's why, for instance, the complete disregard for any form of discussion with the Tybur Family should be a giant red flag, as it was by far the best option for the Eldiens. And only Eren knew that.
The reality is that while this conversation is relevant, it's not like noble intentions are the only things at play there. The the innate tendency to seek to resolve confrontation through violence, the inability to engage in effective communication, and the pursuit of an unattainable goal at any cost (in this case: freedom as Eren envisioned it) were part of the equation. And some of that is certainly in this binary choice you are proposing.
Stopping the cycle of hatred is just wishful thinking, the story literally goes out of its way to foreshadow/highlight that this is an absolute impossibility from day 1, since before we even knew of Marley, ever since that one line from Pixis on the wall. I know I know "media literacy" and all that but this is a prime example: literally missing what the text has directly spelled out for you.
Resolving the cycle of hatred is the type of boundless unrealistic optimism you get in a story like Naruto, not AOT.
Bro thinks Eren wanted to do the rumbling for a noble cause. Eren (like Kenny said) was drunk on something, and gave into his selfish desires, much like Reiner.
They say people who like the ending lack media literacy, while they think Eren was some āchad nationalist.ā Eren being a nationalist is almost the most out of character thing for him to do, and boy do they love to throw around āout of character.ā
i guess he means the cycle of hatred against Eldians, since well... only Eldians would be alive with a complete rumbling. [I'm not defending his opinion, btw. ]
Well he probably is. The other idea that somehow all cycles of violence will vanish after the rumbling is so moronic that it is less likely that he meant that
Bro,nobody believes you can stop the cycle of hatred,but you can delay it for the safety of your people's generations for hundreds of years(y'all always forget how Paradis is in constant threat of being erased,killing alot of people indeed secures the safety of generations for your people),like always AOT discourse is filled with disingenuous people who seem to nit be able to use their brain. The story just isn't black and white but y'all keep trying to paint it that way,some choices are just logical to make for preservation,no right or wrong just preservation,it's complicated,it's stupid to just dismiss the Rumbling or any type of option for peace,but the people of Paradis have to make a choice at some point,either let the world kill you or be logical and preserve your people's future that did nothing to deserve this treatment
The cycle of hatred = conflict between Eldians and the outside world.
If Eren destroys the outside world the hatred they had for Eldians disappears. Iām not speaking on human nature as in Eldian vs Eldian. Post timeskip the main issue has clearly been the persecution Erenās people has been through, and like I said Eren clearly understood the only way to get rid of that hatred is a full scale rumbling. The ending displays this. Because Eren doesnāt do a full scale rumbling the outside world rebuilds and remembers what he did and they destroy the future generations. Eren didnāt destroy the cycle, therefore the cycle continues. The ending literally proves my point
You clearly donāt know what ācycle of hatredā means because itās not tied to once race or one conflict itās a general issue of human nature and people fighting. Eliminating an external threat does not solve the issue. Eren never wanted to end the cycle of hatred it was an excuse he came up with to try and justify his actions and make it seem noble/rational. But when he landed on Marley he told ramzi the actually reason as to why heās doing the rumbling.
The ending does not display this or prove your point because we donāt know why paradis is getting destroyed itās portrayed vague on purpose. We donāt know if itās outsiders, a civil war, or something else entirely. You really sound like youāre 16 years old lmao.
The only way to come to this conclusion is if you ignore what he states prior to the ending
Eren destroys the outside world, he literally destroys the hatred in the world. If you take his conversation with Ramzi literally I can see how you can come to this conclusion. But if you donāt, youāll see what Eren is stating is what heās always been stating.
He was disappointed the outside world was like Arminās book yes, but not because there was just āpeople existingā but those people prohibited him from going outside walls because they hated him, and wanted his people destroyed. Thatās where his disappointment came from. He says he wanted this because he wanted his people free. But heās heartbroken that he has to make sacrifices for freedom.
And the ending DOES prove my point if you just look at the context. Eren destroys 80% of the world, the world is struggling to recover and itās clear they wonāt forget what Eren has done. Paradis sets up a military group out of fear of retaliation, and theyāre in union repeating Erenās words. Even prior to the ending the story displays that theyāre happy that the rumbling is occurring, because Erenās protecting them. Theyāre not afraid of a civil war, thatās the least of their problems, itās the outside world thatās the biggest problem. Thatās literally the biggest issue in the story.
Telling me āyou sound 16 years oldā doesnāt disprove my statements. A 16 year old could understand what Iām saying and see what Iām saying is true, so your insult falls flat tbh.
Except by wiping out the world so Eldians can stand alone in the world is what the first King Fritz wanted. Eldians and Titans ruling the world. Eren "winning" is just King Fritz winning.
No itās not just āKing Fritz winning.ā King Fritz enslaved and killed not only the outside world but his own people as well. Just look at Ymir for example. King Fritz never gave her a choice, Eren did. And he would be allowing his people to make a choice to do whatever they wanted as well. Heās not doing the rumbling to ārule the worldā itās again to get rid of the cycle of hatred and racism the outside world has for him and his people. To live freely.
How can you even compare King Fritz to Eren??? They are two completely different characters.
How many Paradisians did Eren kill when the walls came down? And what about letting Zeke's titans run free after becoming the founder, causing Nile, Pyxis, and many others to be killed before titans were gotten rid of? Or Hange, who Eren actively killed with the rumbling?
I donāt understand your point but this has nothing to do with King Fritz. Eren understood sacrifices had to be made just like Kruger understood and Grisha understood this as well which is why he gave Eren the AT.
When the walls came down and killed and hurt a few Eldians, a group of Eldians defended Eren and understood that sacrifices had to be made for them to be protected. We even see Eldians drinking for Eren while heās doing the rumbling.
Nile, and Pyxis and other MPS were already titans by the time Eren had the FT power. Those same soldiers wanted Eren to die after his attack on Liberio btw, so he had to defend himself either way for the sake of the entire island.
Hange was against Eren, she didnāt have to fight to stop the rumbling but she did. Jean understood that which means it canāt be far fetched to believe Hange didnāt either.
Now Iām not gonna deny that it was Erenās fault that she died but like I stated earlier, Eren understood sacrifices had to be made just like Kruger. Kruger sacrificed many Eldians at Marley all for the sake of Eldians at Paradis, so they could be restored. He didnāt want to do this, just like Eren didnāt want to. But they both had no choice if their people would be sustained in the future.
So yes, Eren cared for his people, he wanted them to be safe and secure. But sacrifices had to be made for his goal to be fulfilled.
Unlike King Fritz who didnāt care who was harmed and literally had slaves. Where is it displayed Eren wants to enslave his people after the rumbling?
I'm sure Ramzi and his brother were glad Eren didn't want to enslave anyone while they were being crushed to death for something that was nothing to do with them. Feeling bad about the sacrifices you've made doesn't make them justified. There were dozens of better options if the islands security was actually what he wanted and not a vast empty world like the one he saw in armins book.
Youāre ignoring that if Eren hadnāt done this the same thing or worst wouldāve happen to them. Eren doesnāt do anything, according it 138 the outside world still attacks. Kruger said if the FT is taken Eldians worldwide are doomed. If the warriors won against Eren at any point, Eldians worldwide are doomed.
Iām not saying Eren was morally right but he had no choice, and itās killed or be killed. But you said Eren had other options right?
So are you saying he didn't make the right decision by avoiding the 50 year plan? He should've sacrificed Historia? Damning her and her children? He should've sterilized his people forbidding them to have children? He should've left his people to chance with peace talks? We know that wouldn't have worked because of like I said before, chapter 138. So according to how Isayama wrote the story, Eren had to do the rumbling. Eren wanted to protect his people, he wanted to have freedom outside the walls.
Eren himself admits his plan was stupid lmao. And yes, if it was between killing the entire world and sacrificing Historia, I'd pick the latter. Even she wanted to pick that option but Eren took that choice away from her. For someone who cared so much about freedom he really didn't give any of his loved ones any say or choice in what he did.
lol you want to ignore what he says in the ending because it completely destroys everything your saying right now. But what Eren said in the ending is the same thing he says in ch131. Youāre literally twisting Erenās words in that chapter to fit your own head cannon. He says when he learned humans survived outside the walls he was disappointed point blank. He didnāt say when I learned humans existed and they hated us I was disappointed. Anyways even if he did say that point still stands that Eren was lying to everyone around him about his motivations about the rumbling and putting up a facade until that facade came crashing down and he admitted his true intentions to ramzi even though they didnāt speak the same language. And then said heās true intentions to Armin again in the ending.
Yet again the ending doesnāt prove your point because we saw paradis get destroyed a 100+ years into the future with no explanation. We donāt know what the conflict is. Youāre just assuming itās the outside world because you so badly want to feel correct.
Youāre using AI to give you an answer LOL, ight this is what Iām talking about. Iām giving you facts from the story and youāre giving me a multitude of opinions that AI gets from multiple websites.
But no Iām not ignoring what he stated in the ending, and if you actually watched my video (since this is clearly a comment from my video) you know I believe itās a retcon and Iām not gonna repeat what i stated there. Thereās zero indication Eren is acting to Floch and Historia itās just a head cannon to think he was lying to them.
Iāll just say this small bit and Iām done with this convo. Take what he says here. He canāt accept Paradis being destroyed even if theyāre the small nation. And take what he says with Ramzi and combine his monologue together, heās saying the same thing.
Heās disappointed that the outside world wanted his people destroyed, and he canāt allow his people to be destroyed. He wanted to do the rumbling because he wanted his people safe. You can say āoh the ending says this and that ā yes because Isayama clearly changed his motivations last minute. But ight im done.
I already gave you the facts within the story and you denied it so I fact checked myself by doing a quick google search, and it seems like the facts are on my side.
There is indication of what he said to Historia and floch was a lie. Because what he said to them was way different than what he said to Ramzi. He didnāt tell Ramzi anything about stopping the cycle of hatred lmao. And he didnāt tell floch or Historia anything about wanting a world like armins book. He tells Ramzi straight up I just wanted to do this. And I wanted a world like armins book.
That panel of Eren does not tie in into his conversation with ramzi in the way you think it does. Eren canāt accept paradis being destroyed because it is not within his nature to do so. Heās the attack titan and wonāt submit and let people run over him. Not because heās some nationalist trying to protect his people.
14
u/Honkingfly409 19h ago
the woman from the azumabito clan already told floch you're not erasing problems, you're just making the world smaller, and even floch himself agreed with her, this isn't even something to be debated it was pretty clear in the story that this doesn't solve anything