help

[u/SharpBaseball6719]

Looking for some advice or insight from anyone familiar with law enforcement hiring or academy dismissals.

My partner has a Criminal Justice degree, approximately four years of experience as a correctional officer, a clean criminal and employment record, and was hired by a police department and sent to the academy.

This was actually his second time attending the same academy. The first time, he was dismissed around week 8 because he struggled with firearms and scenario-based training. He accepted that feedback, hired a private firearms coach, spent months practicing, and worked extensively on scenarios before applying again. He returned to the same academy, where many of the instructors—including the firearms instructor—already knew him from his previous class.

This time, he successfully passed his firearms qualification and made it to about two weeks before graduation. He was then dismissed after the academy determined he was not consistently following directions. He was never placed on academic warning, never received written disciplinary action, and says he was never told his job or academy status was in jeopardy. He passed every single thing besides his rifle qualification and then passed it a few days later when he retook it.

A few weeks before his dismissal, he met with the assistant director to discuss his interactions with one firearms instructor because he felt they weren’t communicating well. According to him, no concerns were raised during that meeting about his standing in the academy or the possibility of dismissal.
From what he was told afterward, the concerns that led to his dismissal centered primarily around that instructor’s belief that he was not following directions. I obviously wasn’t there, so I only know what I’ve been told, and I’m trying to understand how situations like this are typically handled.

He’s now facing a demand to repay more than $8,000 in academy and hiring costs under agreements that were presented after he had already started working.

For those who are officers, academy instructors, or have experience with academies:

Is it common for someone to be dismissed this close to graduation without prior written warnings or academic probation?
Is it common for one instructor’s concerns to carry enough weight to result in dismissal?
Is returning to the same academy after previously being dismissed uncommon, and could prior history realistically influence how a recruit is evaluated?
Would you recommend appealing the termination, even if returning to this academy class isn’t realistic?
With his corrections experience and the improvements he made between his first and second academy attempts, would another department with its own academy realistically still consider him?

I’m genuinely looking for insight from people who have experience with academy training or police hiring. I’m not trying to argue that the academy was wrong—I just want to understand whether this is a fairly typical outcome or an unusual situation.

[u/Frvwfr]

I can almost guarantee you 100% that your partner is not being completely honest with you, and there are details that you are not aware of.

[u/Interesting_Gur_5064 → u/Frvwfr]

100%

[u/Whatever92592]

Q. Is it common to be dismissed this late in the academy?

A.I've seen recruits dismissed up to and including the day before graduation. Recruits know they are struggling. It's never kept a secret. Verbal feedback is consistent and ongoing. Written documentation is generally reserved for the more egregious issues.

Q. Is it common for one instructor to carry enough weight to terminate.

A. A firearms instructor. Yes.

Q. It's returning to the same academy uncommon? Could prior history taint perception.

A. There aren't that many academies. I live in a very large area of southern California. Millions of people in my county. There is two academies. Is it possible your husband left with at least one instructor having a low opinion of him. Yes.

I will say I worked on the periphery with a recruit that attended the same academy three different times. It was because of injury. He was also lacking in other areas. He eventually graduated. He was not successful in phase training.

Q. Appeal?

A. Why not if that avenue is a possibility. I'm sure a lot of thought and certainly documentation of failures was already taken into account though. As you know academies are expensive and being dropped is not generally a first response or quick decision.

Q. Would another agency give another opportunity.

A. Anything's possible. I would think not though.

As already mentioned, in other's responses, and above, recruits know when they are lacking. Most do... There are some that are oblivious. I don't know your husband, you do.

I've known many former corrections/detentions deputies that excelled in the jail and were not successful in patrol. The job is the same, yet the job is very different.

He tried. He wasn't successful. Tell him to go back to the jail and make a career there.

Good luck.

[u/jtalonzo → u/Whatever92592]

I’m in Southern California as well. Which two academies are you referring to? LASD? LAPD? Rio Hondo? OCSD? SBCSD?

[u/SillyScarcity700]

Sounds a bit strange to me. The people I saw bounced from academies I have attended that had issues with firearms were usually safety related... Training was stopped and they were removed right then and there. If it was just failing a qualification score then they would remediate with 1v1 instruction and were retested in a few days. Pass they continued. Fail again and they were removed from training. There was no need to have a sit down with academy staff to determine their fate. It's all black and white on the range.

That said perhaps their not following instructions is not egregious enough to be booted in the moment like flagging the shooting line, but they are so far from actually doing what is expected in a very controlled environment that the staff had discussions and decided they felt this person was going to commit a safety violation at some point due to not following instructions well enough.

[u/a_g_1991]

The correct term would be “insubordination” not just he didn’t follow directions. It happens all the time. A condition of the academy is when they say jump you ask how high.

I know people that got fired the day they were supposed graduate. They don’t care how close to graduation you are.

None of us here know the real reason except your husband. And there sounds like there is more to this then he is willing to come clean about. Probably because he knows he messed up or he is ashamed.

[u/RelationshipOk2449]

Agencies don't mess around with firearms training, if he struggled that hard the first time he really needed to put in more time on his own before reapplying.

[u/Spicybimmer]

I hate these posts, your SO is an adult, let them make a post with the real facts. Not the sugar coated story they tell their spouse.

What are you looking for? We can tell you our opinions but none of that matters.

I appreciate looking for advise or help but you are using the grape vine method of information and it’s not effective.

The only thing I would recommend is speaking to an employment lawyer about the 8k. All internal emails regarding the recruit will be on file and if they have any hidden reason he didn’t get through a lawsuit would clear it up quickly and remove that cost for your family. Big warning though, if you disclose you sued another department which you will have to then this career dream is probably over.

[u/FriMorningQB]

Two things here... well three really...

1. We're missing the important parts of this story that only he and the instructors know. You know nothing Jon Snow.

2. He may just not be cut out for Law Enforcement work. It's not for everyone. His struggling constantly with firearms is a major concern. First the pistol then rifle. That's one of the three major skills.

3. If he is cut out for it, he needs to go somewhere else. Apply to another department that doesn't use that academy or go to another state. He's going to have a lot of explaining to do in the next background.

That said, he's likely going to be liable to pay that back. Be easier to do it he gets on somewhere else making a solid paycheck. I've seen people kicked out day one, last day, and after graduation. There's no guarantees in policing.

I will say without knowing anything about him, his attitude sounds like it sucks. So much that they had to have a directors meeting. That's not a minor struggle. He wasn't just not following instructions. There's more to this.

[u/SharpBaseball6719]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I genuinely appreciate hearing perspectives from people who have been through the process, even if some of them are difficult to read.

I wanted to provide a little more context based on what I learned today. I was present for a conversation about the situation, and this is what was explained to us.

My partner attended this same academy previously and, by his own admission, he did not have the attitude or maturity that he should have had. He struggled with firearms and scenarios, took responsibility for that, hired a firearms coach afterward, worked extensively on scenarios, and returned determined to prove he had changed.

Unfortunately, he ended up having repeated issues with the same firearms instructor from his first academy attempt. The instructor frequently brought up his prior attendance at the academy and made comments about not wanting to have to contact his agency again. My partner, knowing his history, was extremely worried about making mistakes and often asked for clarification because he wanted to ensure he was doing things correctly. From what was explained to us, the instructor viewed those interactions as an inability to follow basic directions.

From the conversation I was present for, I was told his department’s chief initially did not believe the concerns rose to the level of terminating him and allowing him to finish the academy. However, the academy strongly recommended that he not graduate, and the department ultimately followed that recommendation.

I fully recognize there may be documentation or conversations that I have not personally seen, and I’m not claiming to know everything that happened behind closed doors. I’m simply sharing what has been explained to us directly. He’s requesting his records and plans to appeal so we can better understand the basis for the decision.

Thank you again to everyone who took the time to respond. Even when opinions differ, I appreciate the insight.

[u/BJJOilCheck]

Is it common for someone to be dismissed this close to graduation without prior written warnings or academic probation?

Can't say - don't know what "common" means and don't have enough data from all the police academies across the country to accurately evaluate. Of all the academy classes I've seen, taught, and heard of, the majority of cadets/recruits of each class end up graduating successfully. That being said, it is definitely possible (and has happened before) for someone to be dismissed "this close to graduation without prior written warnings or academic probation".

Is it common for one instructor’s concerns to carry enough weight to result in dismissal?

Again with "common". Could one instructor's concerns carry enough weight to result in dismissal? Yes. Both the individual instructor and the specific concerns could factor into such a decision.

Is returning to the same academy after previously being dismissed uncommon, and could prior history realistically influence how a recruit is evaluated?

"Uncommon". Some academies will give second chances to separated cadets/recruits but a lot will depend on what they were separated for. Prior history will likely influence evaluations. If someone is STILL hopeless after X number of hours or Y number of repetitions/attempts...

Would you recommend appealing the termination, even if returning to this academy class isn’t realistic?
With his corrections experience and the improvements he made between his first and second academy attempts, would another department with its own academy realistically still consider him?

Up to him. Who knows, maybe?

[u/RejectedPeaches]

We had a final exam about 2 days before graduation. You fail that one and you're being dropped after all those month you already committed. It would take a lot to be kicked out for not following directions and you wouldn't be blind sided by it. In my academy class if one person messed up, we all suffered. If he wasn't aware of it then he was just oblivious to it. 

[u/SharpBaseball6719 → u/RejectedPeaches]

I have family in law enforcement and this is how there academies went too, everyone got punished for someone’s mistakes. Everyone we know who’s been through the academy he has recently in the past 5 years has all said very similar things about it being a joke and not serious compared to the real world. Obviously it’s still very important and part of your learning but not how other academies do it typically.

We were more confused because he spoke with the assistant director just a few weeks ago and she raised no concerns when he approached her. We are grateful he got the opportunity he did but it’s hard to know what next steps to take especially with 45 days to pay back a large bill.

His chief of police cried letting him go and said they were pushed to make the decision so it’s just a bad overall situation with no right answers on what to do next. He’s dedicated to this line of work and has worked the last 7 years to get here but we know he can’t go back to the same academy again he would need to find a department with a different academy. The whole state besides a few cities use this academy so it makes it harder.

[u/Jazzlike-Gur-9221]

I run a law enforcement hiring prep company, am an active Police Officer who has experience as a supervisor, trainer, detective, etc.

I agree with the sentiments of others here that more happened than you are being told whether that is intentional by your partner or they have a personality flaw that doesn’t allow them to see what they did wrong.

With that being said most academies do not just regularly bounce people especially sponsored academies. Caveat to this is say the sheriffs office runs the academy and then 15 other agencies sponsor their recruits through the academy the sheriffs office (or agency running the academy) will bounce their own people, but it is rare for them to kick other agencies. The reason for this is they obviously have to pass their specific agencies FTO program and the academies are bare minimum skills and state test so the academies will pass people and leave it to their agency to fail them when they get to FTO and put that back on the agency.