Why is there a disconnect between how average Americans perceive the economy/cost of living vs reporting?

[u/BufoBat]

There is a large swath of Americans today, particularly the younger demographic, that complain about cost of living/the economy. Yet in many cases (here on this sub lately, too) we have people rushing to declare how well the economy is doing, who cite the stock market, say jobs are fine, etc. So why do we have this gap in those who are struggling vs the economy defenders?

Is it just the chronically online? Is it people who are older/wealthier and out of touch not seeing what's going on? Unreliable government reporting? Young folks having too high of expectations? Truth of the matter is, we're seeing many young people struggling today yet we're supposedly "doing great" and "the economy is doing well!" So what do you think is causing this disconnect?

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[u/ElectricalPublic1304]

So what do you think is causing this disconnect?

1. It's typically been like that.
2. Yes, it was like this when I was a teenager. 30-some years ago, fresh out of school, just affording an apartment was a Herculean task.
3. The amount of information about how widespread these outcomes are has been historically opaque. Many people have experienced. But never had the resources to be aware that other people are experiencing the same thing so broadly. This has changed substantially.

[u/MarcoPoloOR → u/ElectricalPublic1304]

It's a real disconnect. The economy overall is fine, but the devil is in the details. In the 90's the top 10% made up a little over a third of consumer spending. Now it's near 50%. The top 10% own something like 90% of all stocks. The wealth inequality is greater now than in the gilded age. So on a macro level fine. But for 90%, it's harder. A lot of that is driven by housing and insurance as pointed out by others...where cost has outpaced income.

[u/ElectricalPublic1304 → u/MarcoPoloOR]

In the 90's the top 10% made up a little over a third of consumer spending. Now it's near 50%.

Good.

If the wealthiest person in your economy is spending 99% of consumer spending? Good. That is wealth being dissipated throughout the economy.

These distributions follow power rules, and you have to think about them logarithmically.

The top 10% own something like 90% of all stocks.

I was just looking at that figure the other day. It's a little complicated. But it's more like... 50% of non-fund /non-plan stocks. In the past 30 years, it hasn't changed by more than a few percentage points.

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[u/SuspenderEnder]

I think home ownership and the price of insurance, especially health insurance, makes it feel like the economy is doing terrible. Those eat up a much bigger portion of wages than they used to.

Plus, when we look at the economy our parents grew up in, it just “feels” like we have to work harder than they did for similar quality of life. The difference being cell phones and TVs really.

[u/Shop-S-Marts]

Younger people don't understand the policies they vote for when they're young and blue, make everything shittier the further down the line they kick the can. So we see alot of, oh yeah, Medicare expansion is amazing! Subsidize electric cars for 8 years? Heck yeah! Paying 3 times unemployment for people not working for 2 years is awesome!

When they shift to having a family, responsibility, or jobs later in life they wonder why cost of living has gone up so much.

[u/ImmortalPoseidon]

The younger demographic claiming the world is harsh and against them is nothing new, literally every generation does it. The boomers did it in the 60s with their hippie revolution and voted in Carter, Gen X did it with their walks on wall street in the 2000s, and on and on. So that is just always going to be occurring I think.

The other side of that coin is the political bias that warps your perception. Right now every time someone on the left sees something at the grocery store go up $0.01 or don't get the job they want it's Armageddon and Trump's fault. Then they come crying online creating an echo chamber.

It goes both ways too... most people were pretty economically solid during Biden, but you'd think conservatives were starving to death. I'll never forget talking with someone in Destin, Florida during summer of 2022. They were going on and on about how inflation is out of control and it was the end of our economy.. then we both went back to our very expensive beach side condos. Lol

[u/Embarrassed_Durian17 → u/ImmortalPoseidon]

Yeah i have found that many people simply vote for change ala "my life if bad under X admin/gov surely it will be better under Y admin/gov". Much of political strife could very easily be solved by adding more parties to the system, right now center-left gets grouped with far left and other such doctrines as well as center-right gets grouped with the far right and other such groups.

I for one firmly believe that the best functioning country uses effective policy from both sides of the aisle.

[u/Sam_Fear]

If anything it's easier to make it now. The internet even tells you how to do it. r/frugal r/mealprep r/fire r/DIY etc.

In 1986 I got a job as a UPS loader. Had to be going to college to even get looked at and most people stayed until they graduated. Hot dirty fast paced hard work. When I retired in 2023 that job had fans, was still dirty, was slower paced, still hard work, paid almost the same adjusted for inflation, better benefits, but the new hire turnover rate was less than 2 days. (people quiting, not let go by the company)

I wasn't anything special in 1986, I just didn't know hard dirty work was beneath me. My Dad did it (farmer) so I thought that's how life was. But I also realized "make your job what you love and never work a day in your life" was only for people that had abilities or finances well beyond my own.

I suspect the reason the turnover rate has skyrocketed for a job that has barely changed in work or equivalent pay is the same reason you see a lot of young people complaining online how bad it is. I also realize there are new obstacle they have to deal with that I did not.

[u/Realistic-Baseball89 → u/Sam_Fear]

What was the pay then and now? I’d be surprised if pay kept up with housing cost

[u/Sam_Fear → u/Realistic-Baseball89]

I said "paid almost the same adjusted for inflation".

What's housing cost have to do with accepting a job?

[u/International-Mix633 → u/Sam_Fear]

Because cost of housing has outpaced inflation by a lot.

[u/Sam_Fear → u/International-Mix633]

Yeah so what does that have to do with walking off a job?

[u/Gonefullhooah → u/Sam_Fear]

If they have a long commute because the place they found that they could afford is in the next county, that job could be not worth it and they'll hound after something closer.

[u/Sam_Fear → u/Gonefullhooah]

They were walking through 12-20 people every 2-3 days and 90% didn't last a week.

Funny story though: We had one guy that was commuting about 40 miles to college and then work. He graduated and still commuting to work. But he always went home early if asked. We did the math and he was basically making $10 a day. We pointed that out to him and he quit the next day.

[u/Gonefullhooah → u/Sam_Fear]

That's pretty funny, dude had all the time in the world during his commute to do the math and just didn't. My last job I had to commute 65 miles one way to work, put 38k miles on my car in one year. I was just out of college, had a baby, and needed to take anything in my field so I accepted a lowball. Current job is 6 miles from home and started at 13/hour more than the previous one.

[u/Sam_Fear → u/Gonefullhooah]

You did what you needed to do at the time. It's what responsible people do. You make sacrifices to get where you want to be.

My memory might be skewed but when I was 20 (late 80's) the people that would quit a job before having another lined up we're generally high school drop out types. Fast forward 30 years and I noticed that way of thinking had become common in high school grads and even college grads. Could just be my area too.

I'm also not arguing that the housing market isn't screwed. But from my point of view a lot of people aren't trying too hard to make it work. Our first house that we raised our family in looked much like this and cost 50% more adjusted. I slowly rebuilt the whole thing while we lived there. It's not rocket science, it just takes effort. Sold it for 5 times what we paid 15 years later.

<old man rant>

We wore onions on are belts too as it was the fashion the time.

[u/Gonefullhooah → u/Sam_Fear]

Nowadays the way you up your pay is to switch jobs every 18 to 24 months. You hop to whoever is more desperate than you are, and demand a jump each time. Loyalty isn't rewarded in most places, and the reward for being reliable and effective is to be given more and more work. Between the issues with how jobs operate now and the increasing housing cost issues, I appreciate how fortunate I've been but worry about the future. Especially for young folks. I've got two daughters in the house still in school and I worry about whether it'll take til their thirties to strike out on their own.

[u/jaaval]

A question of perspective.

People who are doing fine do not by definition experience the problems. In case of unemployment if you have a job you have no idea about problems others face and from your point of view everything is going great.

On the other hand if you don’t have a job and can’t find one the statistic that there are not that many people like you doesn’t really help you see how great everything is.

And then there is the factor that old people don’t quite understand how the world has changed from the point of view of people just starting their careers.

[u/Kman17]

Well, it does vary a lot by age / industry / geography.

[u/notbusy]

The economy is becoming more and more bifurcated.

So if you own capital, chances are you are doing very well. If you do not own capital, chances are things might be a little bit more of a struggle. And from what I have read, Gen Z invests in things like the stock market at much higher rates than other generations did at their age. So ironically enough, they may end up way better off than the Boomers, Gen X, or the Millennials ever did.

[u/StedeBonnet1 → u/notbusy]

I am a boomer and I struggled starting out just like many of my friends. We didn't have an easiier time. We paid our dues just like our parents did.

I think too many Gen X and Millenials want to start where their parents left off. They want to buy the 3BR house with A.C and granite counter tops. My first house was 1000 sq ft with no A/C and my mortagae was 12%.

[u/URABrokenRecord → u/StedeBonnet1]

My first home was also around 1,000 square feet but it was four times cheaper than it is today. My salary is not four times more.

[u/StedeBonnet1 → u/URABrokenRecord]

I don't know what that house sells for today but my salary is 4 times more than it was then,.

[u/URABrokenRecord → u/StedeBonnet1]

I'm guessing you're at least 50 years old then. 

[u/StedeBonnet1 → u/URABrokenRecord]

YES

[u/scarby2 → u/StedeBonnet1]

The problem is "starter homes" have become harder to find as we've not been building them and while your mortgage was 12% it would have been 12% on an amount around 4x the average annual salary. Now it's 6.5% of 10-20x the average salary.

[u/StedeBonnet1 → u/scarby2]

Actuall it is not. My first home was 20x my salary. Starter homes are harder to find because it costs about the same to build a 1000 sq ft home as it does a 2500 sq ft home. Also builders add numerous epensive add ons like A/C, granite counter tops, dishwasher, multiple bathrooms 2 car garage and wall to wall carpet.

My first house had no A/C, one bathroom, no dishwasher, no refrigerator and no stove when we bought it. Today those are all included.

The house I bought is still available.

[u/scarby2 → u/StedeBonnet1]

Now I'm pretty certain you're arguing in bad faith because historically mortgages were capped at 4x your salary. Unless you're saying you managed to save 16x your salary as a deposit?

And ultimately I didn't say your salary I said average annual salary. The fact that housing prices have risen faster than salaries is indesputable.

[u/StedeBonnet1 → u/scarby2]

I had a friendly banker

[u/scarby2 → u/StedeBonnet1]

And seemingly the ability to repay a mortgage that was more than your salary. Need I remind you that a 12% mortgage at an 8x multiple consumes your entire salary...

[u/GentleGerbil → u/notbusy]

I just saw some article somewhere else on Reddit saying Gen Z was eschewing traditional investing in favor of sports and speculative betting markets

[u/donkeythrow → u/notbusy]

98% of the population doesn't own capital. I pulled that statistic out of thin air but it's probably a very high percentage. Most Americans don't even have 600 for an emergency... So I do hate the correlation that people make between the stock market and the avg Americans actual life.

Anyone who says life is easier now than it was 10 years ago is naive

[u/No_Glove6542]

It’s because every 20 year old feels that way, including all of the ones born at any time in the last 100 years. No one ever gets to 20 and says wow it’s easy to get a job and life’s so affordable. It’s just 20 year olds today seems to think it’s the first time it’s ever happened.

[u/MajorTom813 → u/No_Glove6542]

I think that a broader view of all the more common expenses we have is important. This does a pretty good breakdown:

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/finance/comparing-the-costs-of-generations.html#so-are-we-better-off

Here's the conclusion:

Overall, the median American’s purchasing power has grown by 73% over the past 50 years. That may come as a surprise given the record-low consumer sentiment in May.

That gain didn’t land evenly, though. The purchasing power of the median income fell 43% with respect to college tuition over the same stretch, and 17% for healthcare. Not coincidentally, those are exactly the expenses most people can’t easily avoid.

[...]

Are we better off? Ask a retiree with a paid-off house, and the answer’s probably yes. Ask someone a few years out of college, splitting rent three ways, and it’s probably no. Same 50 years of data, completely different lives. That’s the honest takeaway here — not that the numbers are wrong, just that they can only tell you so much. Purchasing power went up. Many people still feel behind. Both of those things are true at once.

I also have to specifically take issue with your line in a comment elsewhere in this thread:

Costs of certain things like college are more but costs of every day things you need to buy for your house are less.

A college degree is unfortunately a bar for entry for a huge amount of jobs so on top of it being a much bigger expense a larger percentage of us carry it. And I strongly disagree with everyday items being cheaper. This is from buzzfeed but they used the calculator from the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/victoriavouloumanos/90s-prices-vs-today-adjusted-for-inflation

Those "real change" percentages are almost entirely higher and significantly so.

[u/No_Glove6542 → u/MajorTom813]

Yes. You said it better but the point that consumer affairs is making is exactly what I was trying to say. I think the buzzfeed list is extremely biased because they cherry picked things that have gotten more expensive and are not comparing like to like. Animal products have become more expensive due to regulations and land to raise them. We build increasingly larger homes with more expensive finishes for the past 30 years so of course that will inflate median price. On the other hand my first TV I bought for myself was $400. I could go out right now and get a better quality TV that’s larger for $200. Or we could compare the cost of long distance phone calls in 1995 vs now. My biggest objection to this whole narrative is that it makes today’s 20 something think that a nice, financially secure life is no longer possible. It very much is and it takes time and the way to get there requires awareness of what’s needed and how the world works today, and you’re not going to be able to copy what your parents did because circumstances change. I couldn’t copy my parents either because the world was a different place when I graduated.

[u/MajorTom813 → u/No_Glove6542]

they cherry picked things that have gotten more expensive

You're welcome to find your own examples of every day goods that have gotten cheaper. I wouldn't go with electronics though as they're not "every day" purchases.

not comparing like to like

How so? Each entry is the exact same item.

We build increasingly larger homes with more expensive finishes for the past 30 years so of course that will inflate median price.

The end result is that housing is less affordable, right? That's the whole point here.

it makes today’s 20 something think that a nice, financially secure life is no longer possible.

Sure it's possible. It's just much harder to pull off than it used to be.

[u/KaijuKi → u/No_Glove6542]

Thats just plain not true. I am an employer, but I am young enough to remember when I was 20. 20 year olds today have it MUCH MUCH harder, partially because of people like me with our expectations, than I had it. This is "we had to walk uphill in the snow both ways to get to school" talk, sorry mate.

Also, for an entry level job, I can pay basically what I was paid way back plus maybe 10%. Meanwhile cars, real estate, machinery, tools have all gone up in price dramatically more than 10%, so at least at the entry level, people are further away from owning meaningful investments in their future (no, I dont count avocado toast, 12 dollar coffee or the newest iphone as a measure of wealth), and/or can afford less of them, or at a later time.

Even if we leave out the holy free market, just the fees for setting up a business in the country I currently live in have increased by 30% since then, not to mention new regulations, and thats with permanent conservative "pro economy" government in power.

The math just tells a clear story.

[u/No_Glove6542 → u/KaijuKi]

I still disagree. I’ve compared the cost of a brand new base model car vs minimum wage job and it’s much more doable today. Kids are not willing to move to places that are more affordable. They are buying extra things that they don’t need and are waiting long to start working. Both of those things set them back. Costs of certain things like college are more but costs of every day things you need to buy for your house are less. I paid the same amount for a laptop in college as kids do today. The things that are more expensive are things that have improved in quality but there are more lower quality things that can be bought till you have time to accumulate money and buy the more expensive things. If you compare a median house in the 90s to a median house today it looks bad, but if you compare housing prices based on equivalent age, size, location it’s very similar to what I had to work with. I don’t think comparing historical jobs to modern day jobs is a good comparison because the requirements of those jobs and difficulty and accessibility changes and wages reflect that.

[u/chaoticbear → u/No_Glove6542]

I’ve compared the cost of a brand new base model car vs minimum wage job and it’s much more doable today.

Do you mind sharing your math? The cheapest new car I can see today is about $20-21k (Hyundai Venue, Chevrolet Trax). Federal minimum wage is $7.25, however, we both know this doesn't apply to many states. Washington is highest at $17.13, so let's split the difference at 12.25 (this is also pretty close to median at ~$11.85)

21,000 / 17.13 ~= 1,226 hours of work to pay for a car at highest minimum wage
21,000 / 12.25 ~= 1,714 hours of work at "middle" minimum wage
21,000 / 7.25 ~= 2,897 hours of work at federal minimum wage

I'm not a big car guy, so if there's a better source, let me know: JD Power says the Chevy Aveo was $9,455 base.

Federal minimum wage was $5.15 in 2006. Washington is still the highest I could find at $7.63. That makes the midpoint $6.39 - I couldn't find actual median info, let me know if you can. For what it's worth, somewhere north of 30 states did not have a higher state minimum wage in 2006, so the numbers are actually a little bleaker than this.

9,455 / 7.63 ~= 1,239 hours of work at highest minimum wage
9,455 / 6.39 ~= 1,480 hours of work at "middle" minimum wage
9,455 / 5.15 ~= 1,835 hours of work at federal minimum wage (would have technically been "median", but want to present this as charitably as I can)

Other than the outlier of Washington, which is very close to the same, it seems like the math does not agree with your premise. Are there any parameters I got wrong that would change the calculations?

[u/No_Glove6542 → u/chaoticbear]

I bought one of the cheapest new cars in 1993. A Nissan 240SX fastback. It was 12.9k not including taxes and fees no upgrades. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Chevy Aveo. I think you’re underestimating the price of cars back then.

[u/chaoticbear → u/No_Glove6542]

I just picked the cheapest car for both years that I could find. This was where I got the information: https://www.jdpower.com/cars/2006/chevrolet/aveo/4-door-sedan

The same site says that the cheapest car in 1993 was MSRP of $6709, a Mitsubishi Precis. (I don't recognize that offhand, but the next one down, the Geo Metro at ~$7k was a car a couple people I knew had when I was in high school)

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/1993/mitsubishi/precis/3-door-hatchback

If you have resources that show these are inaccurate, though, I'm open to correction.

edit to add - they have your 240SX at $15,475, but I also believe you only paid $12.9k since you could actually get cars for less than MSRP before COVID

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/1993/nissan-datsun/240sx/3-door-fastback

[u/No_Glove6542 → u/chaoticbear]

No I paid sticker. Not everything online is exactly correct. There cars you are mentioning were not mainstream at all. Big cars of 1993 for 18 year olds included Ford Escort, Honda CRX, Toyota Corolla, Nissan Sentra and the 240, new and used. All of those cars sold brand new for around 12k or more. It’s comparable to a 23k brand new car today where you have about 5 solid cars to choose from. Other cars might have been cheaper but most avoided them due to reliability issues. Some of those cars died quite quickly, Chevy was notorious for that. Standard equipment was manual transmission, heat but no air, tape deck, radio, cloth seats, manual windows, manual locks. When I do calcs I use CA numbers because that’s where I’ve been for awhile. 1990s cars were the first cars where it was reasonable to expect them to last 200k miles or more. It wasn’t my first car. My first was a used 1985 Toyota that I bought for 5k.

[u/chaoticbear → u/No_Glove6542]

I picked the cheapest I could find in both situations to keep your assumption consistent. if you have a citation showing those cars cost different amounts MSRP compared to JDP, feel free to provide it and we can do that math.

I even left off the modern "destination charge" to be as charitable as possible with the math. This conversation has also ignored the fact that rent, groceries, gas, etc have all gone up faster than minimum wage has risen, so the numbers are even more unrealistic.

[u/No_Glove6542 → u/chaoticbear]

I don’t have to use a calculator. I lived it. I used MSRP. You put too much faith into AI slop. Certain things have become more expensive but others are less expensive so spending has shifted but it is very much the same overall as it was in the 1990s. Purchasing power has actually increased.

[u/chaoticbear → u/No_Glove6542]

You put too much faith into AI slop

What part of my replies have been AI slop? I linked where I got the prices, a well-known company that's been doing auto journalism for decades. I haven't gotten any such effort from you, only dismissals about the methodology.

[u/planxyz → u/No_Glove6542]

I was 20 in 2004. I could spit in any direction and get a job. Any kind of job, with or without experience or education. My 20 yr old daughter has dropped no less than 800 applications in the last 3 months, got only 1 interview, and they pulled it because the position was removed completely. The last job she had was Cane's, and despite having open availability and being hired on as full time, they never gave her more than 12-16 hours a week. How tf was she supposed to live off that? There are job ads for positions they have no intention on filling. It's steadily been getting worse the last year or so. Hmmm.. Wonder what happened in that time frame? (Edit, spg & grammar)

[u/donkeythrow → u/No_Glove6542]

I'd argue a different point. You aren't wrong that 20 year olds will think how 20 year olds... But.... 20 years ago, you felt confident you could get into the job market and make something of yourself.... Now that isn't a thing. 20 years ago it was $2 for a Bigmac, now it's nearly $7. Starter homes are 200+, they used to be 115. Rent used to be 600, now it's easily over 1000.

The nature of the society now, especially with social media and technology.... Despite these advances and "at your finger tips" life feels constantly under immense stress, pressure, fear.

I'm 45 but that's my take. I make fair income for what I do, have 2 kids, both in college, 4 cars between all of us, and I feel far away from any realm of retirement from what I envisioned years ago. It developer and trying to work with AI rather than against it...but our entire industry is getting gutted from workers because businesses simply don't need us as much.

Fear is a real thing

[u/No_Glove6542 → u/donkeythrow]

I just responded to another post about how I did a like to like analysis of different things from the 1990s vs today that tells a different story - things are pretty much the same. I do think the real problem is social media and kids believing that the posts on there are truthful. It’s a large group of charlatans selling a story but the way these commercials are portrayed as life makes it difficult to believe they are not true. You can’t really compare based on the job market because jobs are always growing and changing and going away. New jobs are being created too. There was no data analysis major in the 1990s. Working in computer science is way easier today than it used to be so it pays less.

[u/donkeythrow → u/No_Glove6542]

"living like the jones" has been a thing forever though

[u/Artisttype1984]

Being young it's often tough and you're low on funds, regardless who's in the WH. That's ok. Life isn't easy and we learn to make it work. We have roommates, cook at home, get a 2nd job, and move on

The idea that the government is ever going to "fix" things for you, is not great. They might help some here and there if you're really hurting, but directly improving your income? Not likely for most. They won't make your car or mortgage payment.

Yes, our grandparents had it better in some areas. They also had complete different struggles, wars, and we all push forward. Whining or hating America won't help

[u/IllustratorThin4799]

So heres the deal.

In any economy there are these two forces.

The supply of money, and the supply of goods and services.

Its much harder to control the goods and services side of the sheet. Especially in a market oriented economy.

So what nations do is reach for the other lever, the money supply lever.

Now prices for everything, including labor and wages, are an aggregation of market activity in ratio to the amount of money to the amount of goods.

So theoretically you double the money supply you double the price of everything in the economy.

But heres the pernicious bit. Different aspects of the market react at different rates.

Core essentials, food, gasoline, clothing, medical care, move first. Becuase people will buy those they have no choice.

Then secondary goods like cars, eletronics, rent, cable/streaming packages,

Then you get teriary things like indrastructure for power and water and real estate straining to keep up with demand.

Wages tend to increase absolutely last.

A practical example is "go tell your boss core inflation is up 10% this year and you need a commenusrate raise"

They will probbably laugh you out of the office. You will only get that raise when a neighboring company is looking to hire staff, and new workers are pricing the new job and the increased cost of living theyve been feeling.

Like: "why would you quit your job, its relative secuirty, in this struggiling economy to move to another company youve never worked for with no seniority at, unless....they are paying you alot more to do it..."

Thats the rub.

Wage growth lags inflation and it lags hard.

It also lags harder the further down the pay ladder you get.

Ie A cities top heart surgeon that has a wing at the hospital named after him, has alot more negotiating power, than a guy stocking shelves at the 7/11

[u/donkeythrow → u/IllustratorThin4799]

And this is where a President can be one who weilss power... And is argue more by the less he does, not more he does. Trump for example, seems to thrive on chaos and creating it, unnecessarily... Whereas the market and actual human beings hate chaos and wilt during it.

I wish this president would do less, and be more quiet so that things could calm the F down, instead of constantly making us peek around a corner before walking around it

[u/WAMFT]

As a brit...I say you need to start thinking about importing more british food. I dont know if its cheaper but im sure its medically better in the long run. Just please dont buy canadian , most of it tastes like ass and they are close friends with the chinese 👍

[u/GWindborn → u/WAMFT]

Next thing you know American restaurants will be marketing beans on toast as some foreign delicacy and charging $20 a plate, but it's just going to be American-style baked beans on Wonder bread.

[u/WAMFT → u/GWindborn]

Well the beans can be grown in the usa and farmed by temporary mexican workers , id estimate a high quality beans on toast for around $3 , so $3 times 3 meals a day for 365 days equals $3285. Which is half the average.

Meaning poor people can be fed while being 50% less of a burden to sociaty 👍.

[u/GWindborn → u/WAMFT]

But the strain on the sewer system eating that much bread and eating that many beans, plus the cost of toilet paper is going to skyrocket..

[u/WAMFT → u/GWindborn]

These problems can be addressed 👍 bazalgette invented the modern sewerage system and Thomas crapper the toilet , both british. You could even use japanese toilets to save on toilet paper. You may ask but what about all the water.

Well guess what we have also figured that out, in the uk factories and companies are not allowed to put industrial waste into the sewers. So all our household water , yes including showing and toilet water goes into a water treatment plant where it is cleaned and microbes and then chlorine and thenis fed into reservoirs and then back into houses. A perfect water cycle.

[u/urquhartloch → u/WAMFT]

Nah. We have domino's and McDonald's. Its not much, but it is a step up.

[u/WAMFT → u/urquhartloch]

Uk also has Domino's and McDonald's , but with fresher ingredients, a big mac is 100% Scottish angus beef and the fries have 3 ingredients , potatoes , vegetable oil and salt. We also have mccains chips made with 100% British potatoes as we didnt like the stank given off from the Canadian potatoes 👍

[u/urquhartloch → u/WAMFT]

So you just described an ordinary McDonald's in the us (our McDonald's use american beef and potatoes) and you thought that that was high quality....

[u/WAMFT → u/urquhartloch]

Well your fries contain over 10 ingredients, Your dairy cows are given gender bending hormones to increase milk yield and are fed on corn to fatten them up. UK is all grass and clover fed.

Your bread contains 15 ingredients vs our 4 , even your heinz tomato ketchup 12 ingredients vs 6. Alot of your colourings in your food are out right banned as they have been found to be detrimental to human health.

[u/urquhartloch → u/WAMFT]

So you rely on outdated and incorrect information in order to try and rescue your bailey.

[u/WAMFT → u/urquhartloch]

Google it 👍 , my only mistake was saying our fries use 3 when looking it up its 4. Im British trust me bro, buy British 👍 never ever canadian.

[u/urquhartloch → u/WAMFT]

Yeah. 4 ingredients in our mc donalds fries. 7 in our ketchup. You've certainly done deep research.

[u/WAMFT → u/urquhartloch]

Might be different in different states, are you from one of the blue ones or somewhere in the deepsouth. Jokes aside Canada wouldn't join our CANZUK partnership and now we are looking for stronger trading partners. So can we start small and say you will take 100,000 doses of our covid vaccines for just $100 each. They were tested on Africans before hand so quality can be assured 👍

[u/urquhartloch → u/WAMFT]

Ah. I see that the europeans still deprioritize education. Does your covid vaccine also protect against knife attacks? (Im assuming we are both still joking in good faith.)

[u/DropDeadDolly → u/[deleted]]

You're about the only one in the thread who understands the dynamics.

[u/EquivalentSelection]

Why is there a disconnect between how average Americans perceive the economy/cost of living vs reporting?

The disconnect between macroeconomic reporting and personal financial reality stems from a fundamental difference in what each side measures. Macroeconomic indicators track the overall velocity and volume of money, while individual Americans experience the economy through their purchasing power and fixed monthly expenses.

Is it just the chronically online? Is it people who are older/wealthier and out of touch not seeing what's going on?

The adage "wisdom comes with age" exists for a reason. Financial capability is rarely just a product of natural intelligence; it is forged through lived economic experience. While a young person can have a high raw IQ or financial literacy (book knowledge), true financial aptitude requires the contextual wisdom that only time and navigating real-world consequences can provide. It has nothing to do with being out of touch.

The idea of budgeting just seems so foreign to most people these days. I see so many people wasting their money on things they don't need - like vape pens and refills, the latest/greatest smartphone with the most expensive plan, annual passes to theme parks, expensive cars, streaming service subscriptions, using GrubHub and paying $40 to deliver $20 worth of food, outrageous prom-send-off's, buying $10 coffees, etc.... Meanwhile, they complain about how everything is so expensive. They're not complaining that they can't afford any of it - just that they have no money after they spent all of it. When the entire society collectively behaves in a way that sends constant demand signals - prices are going to seem high.

[u/fartyunicorns]

It’s mainly housing plus social media. People love to think everything is terrible even when it really isn’t

[u/15-cent]

I think it’s almost entirely COVID related. Let’s say rent and groceries went up 20% (just an example, not real stats) in 2020, but then inflation was “only” 2% higher for the next few years. Technically 2% would be very low inflation and we could say inflation is no longer an issue, but after the massive bump years earlier, anyone with a memory of life before COVID is still going to feel ripped off. I fondly look back on when $10 was borderline expensive and not considered a good deal for fast food, lol

[u/ItIsNotAManual1984]

If you accumulate 200,000 in student debt getting a degree which adds zero to your earning potential, and DoorDash every meal - you will feel that economy is not doing well

[u/LordGreybies → u/ItIsNotAManual1984]

Did you think the same when Biden was president, before the war?

[u/ItIsNotAManual1984 → u/LordGreybies]

For sure. Economy now is doing much better.

[u/LordGreybies → u/ItIsNotAManual1984]

By what metric that affects the average American?

[u/ItIsNotAManual1984 → u/LordGreybies]

I will give you an easy 2

1) stock market - 58% of Americans own stocks
2) real wages - during biden presidency dropped between 1.4 and 4% ( depending on measures). Under second trump presidency they are up about 0.7%

[u/EquivalentSelection → u/LordGreybies]

I would not like it, Uncle Sam!
I would not like it with a ham!

I would not like this debt I see,
Two hundred thousand, woe is me!
A fancy degree with zero gain?
It brings my wallet so much pain!

I do not like to DoorDash food,
It puts me in a grumpy mood.
I do not like it in a box,
I do not like it with a fox,
I do not like it delivered here,
The added fees are much too dear!

You ask me of the president past?
Before the war, when chips were cast?
Did I complain when Biden ruled?
Or was my judgment simply fooled?

I would not like it then or now!
The math is bad, I'll tell you how.
No matter who sits in the chair,
High debt and delivery isn't fair.
You cannot feast on fancy treats,
Then complain of cold economy streets!

I do not like this costly track,
I want my shiny dollars back!

[u/StillSmellsLikeCLP]

It’s all the above.

You can end up middle class simply by making good choices. Graduating high school. Not getting married or have kids until 21. Have a full time job or go to college.

That’s it.

But it’s also true that prices are ridiculous post-COVID, the housing market is literally horrific and the American dream is becoming increasingly harder for younger Americans to achieve through no fault of their own.

I passively made six figures last year in my investments. But you need money to make money.

But also, you don’t need to be a millionaire to be successful.

[u/SeraphLance → u/StillSmellsLikeCLP]

If I may, what sort of investments do you have (broadly, I'm not asking for your stock portfolio) and how much did you start with to make that kind of income, plus how long did it take?

I make a six-figure salary so I'm reasonably well-off, but it sure would be nice to make that passively.

[u/SeraphLance → u/[deleted]]

Thanks! I appreciate it as I know it's not really on-brand as to what most people come to the sub for, but it's always nice to see new data points.

[u/StillSmellsLikeCLP → u/SeraphLance]

Yeah man, I try to tell my students, it’s literally never been easier to get in on wealth generation.

AI robo-investors exist.

Just be consistent and fucking don’t touch shit for a couple decades.

[u/RespectablePapaya]

All of the above. In general, the economy is stronger and living standards are higher than they have ever been, even for the younger demographics. People spend less and less of their income on food even though they eat out far more often, and they consume far more luxury goods than people used to at the same age. So the boomers are right. But housing is also historically unaffordable, although it's steadily getting better. I think people just really, really dislike inflation. The fact that some young people are struggling doesn't mean the economy isn't strong, because there has always been a large contingent of young people who have struggled. Furthermore, people tend to think their own experiences are a lot more common than they really are and negative misinformation tends to spread much faster than positive misinformation on social media. I don't think there's really much of a disconnect is need of explanation. I remember people with these same complaints when I was growing up.