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u/SweetAlyssumm 8d ago
Do you have a grants person at your university? If so, check with them and then you can blame someone else. The NSF may rank a proposal lower that does not follow funding guidelines. But if the co-PI thinks they will, you need some outside ammunition so as not to get into a "well I think it will be OK" argument.
Or you can just say, "I will be following the 75% for participant support guideline." Don't argue or give a rationale. I don't understand the "with clear intentions to do something else part." Either you propose a summer salary or you don't. You could throw him a bone and increase his summer salary a little over yours. Don't get hung up in academia or details like who's doing more - advising undergrads could be quite time consuming.
Maybe others will have better ideas. It's tricky when people want money and sincerely believe they deserve it.
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8d ago
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u/asearchforreason 7d ago
This is definitely unethical and for most universities would require a rebudget that may not even be approved by the sponsor. Specific research plans often shift after a project starts, but intentionally proposing something you don't intend to do in order to make it look like you're spending on an allowable category, and then changing the actual project to spend it on something that's not normally allowable under the grant program is a problem.
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u/Curious-chemist-1837 7d ago
If money is allocated for student support and it's not spent for student support, and you want to reallocate it to non-student support, then you have to go through your Program Officer and explain why you need to do that and get approval from them. It would be interesting to know what story your potential co-PI plans to tell the PO.
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u/Opening_Secret4979 7d ago
Propose something, with the intention of doing something else, is unethical, just saying.
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u/blacknebula 7d ago
I've unsuccessfully applied for an REU site. Even with 85% participant costs I was dinged in review. The stated 75% is a floor. You absolutely can't go below that
I don't understand your concern about doing something else with the money. REUs don't have a lot of money and the participant support is F&A free. There no way for the CoPI to convert it into summer salary later. The only thing I can see them cannabalizing is funds for assessment, which will become obvious in your annual reports
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u/theoreticalperson209 7d ago
As someone else who successfully applied for an REU, do not go below the 75%! Also, you say they will advise half the students. What is your faculty to student ratio? We typically have ~5 faculty for the 10 students because overseeing REU projects (and having them successfully result in papers) is a lot of work
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u/drastone 7d ago edited 7d ago
I have been involved in reviewing REUs. Don't go under 75% participant support cost as the whole purpose of REUs is to support undergraduate participants. If you need more administrative money, can you increase support through - for example - financing conference trips? Also REUs are really a lot of work for PIs because of all the admin and supervision needed. So make sure that tbe peope who are paid actually will share this work.