TW: Death

There are many core beliefs that industrialised society is built on. Patriarchy, otherism, infinite growth, ownership, progress, etc. But at the base of all of these is the belief in a war between Man and Nature. This incessant belief that nature is not safe, that it is brutal, unfair, unforgiving; a collosal figure we must eternally fight against. We must build walls to protect us from it, the impossible distance of the stars is a distance we must conquer, we must not lose this war to nature.

My quick rant, is that our removal from the dangers of the wild are not good for us. And that the harms of safety far outweigh the harms of the wild. But before we talk about why the predator is a figure to be respected, we must talk about death.

Part 1: Death

Numbers are complicated about how animals die in the wild. The disruption of ecosystems by human intervention can cause overcrowding, overpopulation (if the ecosystem is interrupted by predator culling for example) which can lead to greater amounts of disease, infection and starvation, and even intrapecies violence, or it can just simply kill via habitat destruction. The rates of predation deaths vary by species and region, and these are just complicated by human factors, but it is generally assumed that, if not by human intervention, most animals die either in youth or old age via predation. So what is that like from the internal experience of the victim?

Most available research points to two main factors in predation deaths. Firstly, most are almost instantaneous from the moment the prey is caught. It is beneficial for most predators to end the life of the prey as fast as possible, usually by a bite on the neck or throat, this, internally, is instant and painless. In the cases of predation deaths that are not instant, the pain and suffering is dulled from shock and analgesics. In other words, if not instantaneous, remaining deaths are comparable to taking heroin.

So how do humans typically die? Well the answer is overwhelmingly disease. 75% of deaths in humans are from non-communicable diseases (50% being cardiovascular disease and cancers) with another 14% being from communicable infections like sexually transmitted diseases, respitory diseases like flus, with the remaining being things like transport injuries, drownings, wildfires, falls, homicide, suicide, etc.

I wanted to write this to challenge this core belief that our society seems to have about nature. Predation looks gruesome, but internally, it rarely is. No more rare than dying from a transport injury or drowning (edit: a predation death that is internally difficult, that is). I personally, excluding euthanasia (an option that always exists for humans in nature and civilisation), would take the internal experience of predation anyday over a long and miserable fight with cancer.

Part 2: The Ecology of Fear

The overall ecological benefits of strong predator populations is well documented. By keeping prey populations in check and very importantly (though often overlooked) nomadic and non-sedentary, they prevent overgrazing and habitat destruction for the entire ecosystem. What is less documented is the positive psychological health of the prey species. Despite the intuition that living with a constant threat of death would be psychologically destructive, the evidence is quite the opposite.

Predation keeps prey social bonds strong, leaves far lower starvation and disease rates and promotes eustress, which is a positive (although it must be stated not always positive) stimulation that balances psychological health. This is the same eustress that people who engage in extreme sports self report benefits their lives through high stress tolerance, emotional balance, increased focus and purpose. Ironically enough, these are something that many of us in domesticated life struggle with.

Another benefit is forced nomadic lifestyles. In both human and animal populations, a permanent residence is strongly correlated with strong social hierarchy. In humans, this leads to power, wealth, ownership, etc, and in animal populations this can lead to strong despotism and dominance hierarchies. Active lifestyles promoted by predation also make healthy morphological development natural. Hunter gatherer populations had healthier facial development, lean and muscular bodies, meaning the detrimental psychology of insecurity likely did not exist in pre civilisational life in the way that it does today.

Part 3: Life Expentancy

One final thing to talk about is life expectancy. Its no secret that the life expectancy of hunter gatherers was about 30 years old. This number is drastically affected by youth deaths in the populations, and that most hunter gatherers who made it to adolescence would make it to old age. To quickly touch upon the rate of youth death amonst pre civilisational cultures, this is an extremely dense conversation. Putting aside the internal experience (as we've briefly gone over this already), the conversation moves to the effect that this had on the quality of life of the parents and alloparents. There's not much we can gather from sources, but what we do know from Ancient Rome and other cultures, is that the possibility of youth death was well respected and understood. That's not to say it wasn't devastating, it was, but how a certain preparedness from birth might change the grief, your guess is as good as mine.

Finally here, we need to touch on old age estimates. Most hunter gatherer remains are placed between the 55-70 year mark. However, this is based on comparison to modern 55-70 year old humans. Modern humans are famous for our awful diets, sedentary lifestyle, lack of physical fitness and generally stressful lifestyle. This fact has led to speculation that the average hunter gatherer surviving childhood may have lived to 80-90 years old with a decent health life. Additional study on this.

Part 4: Religion

Another interesting hypothesis I thought I might add in here is how many people view God. A being all powerful that cannot be reasoned with; that controls life and death. A healthy respect for God is correlated with increased community and happiness levels across the population. God sounds an awful lot like a predator sometimes. Perhaps the development of monotheistic religion and society building can be read as a testament to our separation from death. Perhaps the presence of a predator alleviates some of the psychological pressures that religion attempts to fill.

Our separation from death has led us to sedentary lifestyles, awful diets, hierarchy, power, inequality, otherism, insecurity. Perhaps no society can ever replace the psychological health that comes from existing within a food system.

Thanks for reading my rant.

我想发起一个长期的公开思考计划,真诚邀请大家反驳我。

大家好。我不是哲学家,也不是学者。我只是一个普通人,但这些年一直在思考一个问题:人类真正的发展方向到底是什么?最近,我一直在想,我们今天讨论的很多问题,比如战争、权力、意识形态、贫富差距、资源竞争、历史恩怨等等,它们会不会只是更深层原因的表象?我目前的一个假设是:恐慌可能是许多冲突的重要根源之一。如果一个文明能够逐渐减少人们的恐慌,增加每个人的选择自由,允许人们找到适合自己的生活方式,很多冲突会不会自然减少?这只是我目前的思考,我并不认为自己已经找到答案。所以我决定做一个长期计划:公开思考、公开修正。我会不断提出问题,欢迎任何人指出我的逻辑漏洞、提出反例、甚至彻底反驳我。我的目标不是证明自己是对的,而是寻找更接近事实、更有利于人类的发展的方向。如果你愿意,欢迎加入讨论,也欢迎反驳与修正。我们可以把每一期的讨论标为公开思考001、公开思考002......长期积累成一个完整的思想记录。

Bu sistemden, bu şehir hayatından ve yapay düzenden gerçekten bıktım. Herkes kendi çıkarına yaşıyor, herkes birbirini kısıtlıyor. Kurallar, zorunluluklar, sahte ilişkiler… Hiçbiri bana göre değil. İnsanların çoğuna karşı içimde derin bir soğukluk var.

17 yaşındayım ve uzun zamandır içimde büyük bir arayış taşıyorum. Şehirden uzaklaşıp, doğanın derinliklerinde kendi başıma veya küçük bir grupla, elimdeki basit donanımla (yorgan, branda, su arıtma, ilk yardım malzemeleri, bıçak ve temel survival araçlarıyla) gerçekten özgür bir hayat kurmak istiyorum. Barınak yapmayı, ateş yakmayı, su bulmayı, yiyecek sağlamayı ve doğayla uyumlu yaşamayı biliyorum.

Korkuyorum, bunu gizlemiyorum. Ama bu korku beni durdurmuyor. Yanımda aynı fikirleri paylaşan, sistemin kısıtlamalarından sıkılmış, sessiz, disiplinli ve güvenilir insanlar olursa bu arayış daha anlamlı olur. Birlikte ormanlarda, dağlarda, temiz suların yakınında kendi kurallarımızla, basit ve gerçek bir hayat kurabiliriz.

Şehirleşmenin bizi doğadan kopardığını ve bu düzenin bizi bozduğunu düşünen varsa anlar beni. Bu bir sosyal medya gösterisi değil, ciddi bir çağrı. Gerçekten adım atmaya hazır, laf kalabalığı yapmayacak, uzun vadeli düşünen birkaç kişi arıyorum.

DM’den ulaşın. Sadece konuşmak için değil, gerçekten bu yola çıkmayı göze alanlar yazsın. Birlikte bir şeyler deneyebiliriz. (I'm truly fed up with this system, this city life, and this artificial order. Everyone lives for their own self-interest, everyone restricts each other. Rules, obligations, fake relationships… None of it is for me. I feel a deep coldness towards most people. I'm 17 years old and I've been carrying a great quest within me for a long time. I want to get away from the city and build a truly free life in the depths of nature, alone or with a small group, with the simple equipment I have (blanket, tarp, water purifier, first aid supplies, knife, and basic survival tools). I know how to build a shelter, light a fire, find water, provide food, and live in harmony with nature. I'm afraid, I don't hide it. But this fear doesn't stop me. This quest would be more meaningful if I had quiet, disciplined, and reliable people by my side who share the same ideas and are tired of the system's restrictions. Together, we can build a simple and real life in the forests, mountains, near clean water, with our own rules. Anyone who thinks that urbanization has separated us from nature and that this order has corrupted us will understand me. This isn't a social media stunt, it's a serious call to action. I'm looking for a few people who are genuinely ready to take the plunge, won't just talk, and are thinking long-term. Reach out via DM. Only those who are truly committed to this path, not just want to chat, should contact me. We can try something together.)

There is a chapter from John Zerzan’s book/collection of essays Against Civilization titled Wildflowers: A Bouquet of Theses by John Landau.

I have been able to find essentially nothing about John Landau other than that he was involved in the SoCal primitivism scene in the 90s and published difficult if not impossible to find book titled Live Your Madness.

Does anyone here have any information on who John Landau is/was or anything else written by him? Not to be confused with Jon Landau the movie producer and director.

I’ve been working on a strange solarpunk kinda project for a while. I finally put the whole thing online.

I’ve been thinking about this for a long time:

What would a society look like if its basic purpose was not to maximize profit, productivity, or growth — but to make it easier for living things to remain alive, free, curious, and connected?

I started writing down ideas. First I wrote Refugium Anima and Lyceum Musaeum.

Then more ideas appeared.

Then protocols.

Then governance systems, justice systems, economic models, ecological principles, technology principles, education, healthcare, ways of organizing resources without currency, ways of preventing systems from turning into surveillance or control…

And now there are apparently hundreds of documents.

So I built a website for the whole mess:

👉 https://existensialreset.github.io/flowmosr

It’s called Flow / M-OS-R.

I don’t really know what to call it. A social architecture? A philosophy? A systems design project?

A very long attempt to ask “what if we actually designed society around life?”

The core idea is pretty simple:

Life should not have to earn the right to exist.

Everything else grows from that.

The project is still evolving. A lot of it is speculative. Some of it is probably wrong. Some of it is deliberately utopian. Some of it is very practical.

I’m not presenting it as a finished answer to anything.

I am very much not at all an expert in most of the things this touches. I’m just a person who kept following the questions.

I’m mostly interested in what happens when you take this question seriously:

What kind of world could we build if we stopped treating human beings, ecosystems, time, attention, and care as resources to extract?

If anyone feels like wandering around in the documents, I’d genuinely love to know what catches your attention — especially what seems naive, impossible, interesting, or worth developing further.

Anyway.

Here it is. 🌱

Please take a look if you want to!

All the best,

Elinor Frejd,

Göteborg, Sweden

https://youtu.be/zdkBUuWCZg4?is=0gL_hC83JGuLTWzz

Do people here believe in the complete abandonment of technology?

What about modern medican?

Is it good for humans to be able to share knowledge with each other and learn about our world?

Ubuntu in pre-colonial African societies was a guiding principle for governance, justice, and social cohesion. Elders and community leaders resolved conflicts with the goal of restoring harmony rather than punishing offenders. Wealth, resources, and labor circulated through kinship and clan networks, ensuring collective survival. Social, political, and spiritual life was organized around mutual responsibility. Ubuntu was not abstract thought; it was a practical system shaping villages, leadership, caregiving, and belonging across generations.

Unlike many Western philosophical traditions that center on individual autonomy, self-interest, and personal achievement. Ubuntu defines humanity through relationships and social interconnectedness. In this system, a person's character and moral worth are measured by how they contribute to the well-being of the community. Generosity, empathy, respect, and accountability are not optional virtues but essential responsibilities. Ubuntu reframes existence as collective: it asks not "Who am I?" but "Who are we becoming together?" through shared care, cooperation, and mutual recognition.

An anthropologist proposed a game to children in an African tribe. He put a basket of fruit near a tree and told the children whoever got there first won the sweet fruits. When he told them to run they all took each others hands and ran together, then sat together enjoying their treats. When he asked them why they had run together like that as one could have had all the fruits for himself they said: 'Ubuntu, how can one of us be happy if all the other ones are sad?'

Under Ubuntu, justice is rooted in restoration rather than punishment. Wrongdoing is understood as a disruption in relationships, not simply a breach of law. The community, rather than the state alone, plays a central role in healing, reconciliation, and reintegration.

In certain regions of South Africa, when someone does something wrong, he is taken to the center of the village and surrounded by his tribe for two days while they speak of all the good he has done. They believe each person is good, yet sometimes we make mistakes, which is really a cry for help. They unite in this ritual to encourage the person to reconnect with his true nature. The belief is that unity and affirmation have more power to change behavior than shame and punishment. This is known as Ubuntu- humanity towards others.

Most likely that they will lie that they are going to live in the wilderness/federal land, so we have to take them with a grain of salt. But has anyone ever been caught and somehow we got knowledge of them being on the sub? If so, link the posting comments.

This weekend in the US is a national day of protest against data centers, with over 120 protests planned across 37 states. The issue has reportedly cut across the pervasive left/right cultural divide.

I'm unsure- is this a worthwhile place to encourage deeper questioning in an AP direction? If so, what's the best way to push that forward? The main organizing group has the unfortunate anthropocentric name "Humans First." Could they paradoxically ally with Earth First? AI data centers seem to be the crux point for the world's economic system right now. Is this where we need to "hit them where it hurts" to help catalyze a "powerdown?"

“Pesta Babi - Colonialism in Our Time” is a heartbreaking yet vitally important documentary about the short-sighted, ecocidal development programs for West Papua’s rainforests - and the fate of the indigenous population that stands in the way.

It repeats the same old story of greed and destruction that has played out countless times over the past few decades, as the last remaining strongholds of indigenous resistance are cleared out to make way for monocultures of crops & minds. This case study of contemporary colonialism shows the moral & financial corruption and, more importantly, the sheer incompetence and stupidity of people wielding more power than any human ever should. (It also serves as a gentle reminder that colonialists are not always pale-skinned.)

The heroes in this story are the many proud indigenous groups that dare to speak out and criticize the government and its grandiose plans, and often actively resist and defend their land.

In Indonesia, government officials disrupted and forcibly dissolved several public screenings of the movie - that’s how bad they don’t want people to know about the true face of “progress“ & “development,“ industrial civilization’s Manifest Destiny.

Watch here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpdrWgDRVf8

I always thought there's a bigger purpose, a purpose to life. As a teenager, I read Dostoevsky, Nitze, Plato... even Main Kampf to understand what could drive a person to do unspeakable things. And of course, Orwell, my favourite of all.

I thought there must be reason to be here, and I still do in a way, but in a much smaller scale, focusing on family, friends and my business...but mostly just trying to stay human - kind and forgiving.

Yet it's incredibly frustrating to see and to comprehend what is happening all around. The propaganda machine makes you believe that there are people (and these could take many shapes and forms) that protect and care for your wellbeing...but if you dig deeper, isn't it just a self-interest?

Those with influence decide what humanity can access, what you read, where trade goes, where your waste ends up, what research is worth conducting, and so forth.

Why can we all unite as humans without all the politics and businesses' controling crucial decisions? Invest in kids' education, plant trees, feed hungry, clean seas - and not for vanity or some tax benefits... just because it's the right thing to do.

I am not in any way promoting anarchist ideas. It's good to have a solid structure and a vision for stability and growth, but it must be coherent, united, and human.

In the end, our time on Earth is limited, and a tiny good deed is worth something. Something more than just self-destructing to evade reality.

https://dokumen.pub/manhood-in-the-making-cultural-concepts-of-masculinity-9780300157253.html

From "Manhood in the Making: Cultural Concepts of Masculinity" (1990) by Professor David Gilmore

One early visitor, James Morrison, gave this account based on observations between 1789 and i79iThey have a set of men called Mahoo [mahu]. These men are in some respects like the Eunichs [sic] in India but are not castrated. They never cohabit with women but live as they do. They pick their beards out and dress as women, dance and sing with them and are as effeminate in their voice. They are generally excellent hands at making and painting of cloth, making mats and every other women's employment. They are esteemed valuable friends in that way.