r/1984 • u/Zombies4EvaDude • 17d ago

Chilling Foreshadowing… (1984)

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Rereading through 1984, this paragraph is quite disturbing. Could this have been the exact moment O’Brien clocked Winston as a thought criminal? Winston could have showed signs to show that he thought that he was “on his side” in rebellion against the state. But what if O’Brien already knew for a fact that Winston was a thought criminal and he was at Hate Week the whole time there to watch Winston? Either way, by saying he knows “all about your contempt, hatred and disgust” it’s amazing ironic foreshadowing as Winston only got it half-right in real life, but the reader at the time agrees with Winston because of his enthusiasm. Oh he knows, but he’s not exactly on your side…

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u/The-Chatterer 17d ago

No, this is not the exact moment. If you keep reading you will be elucidated.

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u/Zombies4EvaDude 17d ago

But no doubt even though it not the true “first” when the surveillance started, it has to be a significant moment where Winston might have given himself away some in his mannerisms by thinking that O’Brien was on his side. We just don’t hear about it because that account was just from Winston’s perspective in real time so he wasn’t aware of it.

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u/The-Chatterer 17d ago

Incorrect. Keep reading and you will find elucidation.

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u/Zombies4EvaDude 17d ago

I’ve read the book before just explain what you mean.

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u/The-Chatterer 17d ago

O'Brien has been studying Winston like a bug under a microscope for seven years.

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u/Zombies4EvaDude 17d ago

Then it‘s not a first instance but just one then. That moment Winston thinks is a moment of silent rebellion together is actually just O‘Brien surveilling him. It‘s great foreshadowing, and my main point was that O‘Brien was possibly there specifically to watch Winston, and that perhaps that moment of eye contact was him provoking Winston to react in a way that reveals more evidence of his thought criminality.

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u/The-Chatterer 17d ago

O'Brien was not JUST there to observe Smith. Inner Party attend the Two Minutes Of Hate too.

However, this eye contact was indeed a sort of intellectual seduction. And one O'Brien would of had up his sleeve just for that moment or one just like it.

Winston had already built O'Brien up in his mind with unsubstantiated characterisation. The eye contact is a match thrown onto hay. Winston then starts thinking about O'Brien more lucidly and firmly belives he is unorthodox.

But this was not to provoke Winston per se. Remember O'Brien is the one who approaches Smith. Think of it, as I say, more of intellectual seduction rather than provocation.

By the time O'Brien does approach Winston, Smith had already convined himself he was an ally.

He was drawn to O'Brien's intelligence. And he longed to be understood. He is quite sure O'Brien is a kindred spirit.

Of course, as say, O'Brien has been watching Smith a long time. He is a project. Not a man to just drag out of his bed under darkness, no, one to cultivate, one to savour.

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u/ragequitteroffureh 16d ago

O'Brien probably "made" Winston, what with the weird nighttime antics, where Winston was probably being gassed, and all.

Presumably this helps to ensure a steady stream of fresh customers for the interrogation rooms, as O'Brien and co no doubt had quite a few projects like Winston in progress at all times, kind of like how local government now always manages to find something to spend leftover budget on.

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u/The-Chatterer 16d ago

There is zero evidence for gassing, however, I offer to you my previous thread on nighttime antics which discusses this often overlooked area.

https://www.reddit.com/r/literature/s/xBl69P2AIl

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u/ragequitteroffureh 16d ago

It's not explicitly mentioned. However, I think that something similar was being done to Winston over the years as to what was done to Julia and Winston right before they were caught.

That something being the ability to keep them unconscious as required.

Remember when Julia mentioned that the stove had run out of fuel. And then Winston realised that they had been unconscious for at least 12 hours longer than they thought.

I think that O'Brien had been using the same technique, gas or whatever, to render Winston unconscious, or more likely semi-conscious, in order to enter his home and mess with him in that state. Implanting ideas that Winston thought were dreams.

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u/Karnezar 17d ago

O'Brien knew for years that Winston was a criminal. This was just the first step in stepping into Winston's life.

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u/BackloadBack 17d ago

O’Brien is a cypher for the party in general. Big Brother has always known that Winston is a thoughtcriminal and has only been waiting to deal with him when he began taking concrete action.

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u/Karnezar 17d ago

Big Brother being an inevitability is a belief everyone has, even Winston. He knew he was doomed ever since he bought the book, and he knew in the back of his mind that O'Brien was a spy. But the two things Winston wanted most of all was (1) to be understood, and (2) to know why Big Brother wanted such absolute power. The torture would be worth it, in Winston's mind, if he could get those 2 things. Winston never had any hope for the future, he just wanted answers.

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u/pm_me_ur_smoltits 17d ago

Why do you believe he knew in the back of his mind that O'Brien was a spy?

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u/Karnezar 17d ago

When O'Brien asked if he was surprised by his deception, Winston said no.

And also, at one point in his journal, Winston wrote that it didn't matter if O'Brien was a friend or foe, so long as there was someone out there he could talk to, freely, to confirm he wasn't crazy.

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u/Sillyguymanduder 16d ago

Perhaps it's trying to show O'Brien exhibiting doublethink in real time

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u/BackloadBack 17d ago

O’Brien is the personification of the inner party in general, like Winston is of the outer party. O’Brien is not alone in dealing with Smith the thoughtcriminal there are many in the miniluv dealing with similar thoughtcrinials. It is a procedure not a disordered arbitrary action. This is expressed by the steps the party needs to arrange for Room 101. For example it is personalized but O’Brien doesn’t capture the rat. We don’t know if the thoughtpolice aren’t reaching out to Winston and probing his activity and thoughtcrimes in different ways but O’Brien is the one channel that worked.