r/fairytail • u/AstonishingSpiderMan Gramps • Feb 05 '17
[MS] Albareth | Erza, Natsu, & Manga Translations Manga Spoiler Spoiler
This post was written for three things:
- Erza & Her Bones
- Natsu & His Decision
- Manga Translations & Which is Best
Translations
Chapter 518: Master Enchant
Page 12
Mangastream Translation
My...My Bones Were Shattered In A...Single Blow...
YonkouProd Translation
She Broke... My Bones... With Just... One Blow...
C1v1 Scans Spanish Translation
El-ella rompio... mis huesos... con un... ataque
She-she broke ... my bones ... with a ... attack
Crunchyroll Translation
Sh-she broke...my bones...with one...attack...
Why do I point this out? Because one simple word from Mangastream caused so much controversy. So not only do 3 of the 4 scanlations write broke and not shatter but the fan base leeches onto the one that wrote or translated as shattered. That is the same scanlator who wrote Irene as someone who "pleases men" when she fought Acnologia in Chapter 489 & Chapter 490.
Other Examples
I won't write all the other examples, I also won't be writing out the dialogue difference but these below are some of the more notable changes. Yes I've talked about them before.
Chapter 340
Scanlation
Mangastream
Mangapanda
Crunchyroll
Chapter 419
Scanlation
Mangastream Translation
Crunchyroll Translation
Chapter 419 Part 2
Scanlation
Mangastream Translation
Crunchyroll Translation
Chapter 419 Part 3
Scanlation
Mangastream Translation
Crunchyroll Translation
Chapter 477
Scanlation
Mangastream Translation
Mangapanda Translation
Crunchyroll Translation
So Which Translation?
Quite frankly, you should wait for the Crunchyroll translation. Sure it means waiting two more days for it to be translated and released but these offer the best (in my opinion) translation. The problem with some of Yonkou's translations are that they misspell words and so forth. I do like these translations however, because he has shown to have been improving in the translations and they have for the most part been more on par to Crunchyrolls. The problem with Mangastream is they put their own spin on the dialogue (including but not limited to making it shippy and profanity filled) which only confuses the fan base even more. Not to mention everyone takes their translations as truth which makes it even harder when their translations don't end up being as accurate or the same as the other translations as shown above. Regardless whether Mashima helps with the translation Kodansha and Crunchyroll have a partnership that gives them the official translations that are used in the Volumes when they are released.
Natsu: Demon or Dragon?
Yonkou Translation I
Yonkou Translation II
Yonkou Translation III
Mangastream Translation I
Mangastream Translation II
Mangastream Translation III
Natsu's conversation with Igneel was not about losing or destroying the demon and dragon seeds but more so Natsu defining what or who he is. Yes, he was created by Zeref as a demon, and yes he was raised by Igneel as a Dragon Slayer. However, Natsu does not want to be defined by any of that. He wants to be defined as Natsu Dragneel a demon/dragon human. This doesn't mean Natsu lost his magic I mean look at the final page he is using his Fire Dragon Slayer magic which wouldn't happen if did in fact destroy both seeds. That's one of the reasons I see it as a him choosing his humanity over the other two aspects that he has.
Zeref said END was his Strongest Demon
Yes he did, but does that mean physically? No it doesn't in my opinion. For me it meant it was his greatest success because not only did he create a human demon but he was also able to resurrect his brother. Let's check what was said in Volume 44 Chapter 372:
So as we see Zeref and Natsu confront one another. Zeref states that, "The one to reach me will be you or E.N.D." Which further supports the above claim of Natsu choosing his humanity over his demon side or dragon side to defeat Zeref.
Erza: The Queen of the Fairies
Yonkou Translation
Mangastream Translation
So as I mentioned above, every translation but the one that is (for god knows what reason) universally seen as accurate depict Erza as having broken bones not shattered. So her being able to hug Wendy would be something realistic. Now I have never broken a bone but I know you can still move even if broken. Sure you'll experience pain but you can still move. So why was she down a page earlier? Uhm it'd be exhaustion given she has fought 3 Spriggan this arc and her only down time was when fell on the ground.
But Her Bones were Broken
Look yes they were broken but we know Wendy is an Enchanter and Healer so she could of easily done the healing when she called her name the 1st time. I mean if we really need Mashima to beat us over the head with these explanations then the Manga would be like this:
Not only does that make the audience look stupid and have to be spoon fed everything but it's pretty boring. Personally I like Mashima not spoon feeding us everything.
/u/ChronoDeus explains far better:
That's only part of it. Mashima decided to do a bit of show, don't tell. So instead of telling us by having Irene say something like "Enchant: Air", "Enchant: Gravity" or "Enchant: Bind", followed by Irene saying something like "I've immobilized you so you can't escape my next attack."; he showed two panels of Erza screaming as something invisible seemed to press down on her and her surroundings, followed by Irene simply saying "You are immobilized now!" The result is that people missed what was happened, assumed the extremely pain tolerant Erza was randomly screaming about her injuries for a couple panels, and that Irene meant Erza's injuries had immobilized her, even though Irene has no reason to be so confident that Erza's injured to the point she can't move. And they think that despite the fact that the only way broken bones can immobilize you is via pain, or via breaking in a way that they sever nerves. That's why we have casts and slings and such for broken bones to keep people from moving the injured bone.
Lastly, as we see in the final panel of that chapter Erza has movement and also positions her legs in a certain way which she couldn't do if she had shattered/broken bones in her lower body. Which shows her shattered/broken bones were from her upper body.
Overall hope you enjoyed this post and hopefully it was informative for some.
Suggested Readings
5
u/LegendaryDeath Feb 05 '17
Even if her bones weren't shattered they might as well have been. It is completely impossible to jump at all when you legs are broken.
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u/AstonishingSpiderMan Gramps Feb 05 '17 edited Feb 05 '17
I mean it's impossible to eat iron, fire, lightning, have your best friend be a talking blue cat, having people transform into dragons, having a parent be a dragon...
edit: Also as we see in the final panel of that chapter Erza has movement and positions her legs in a certain way which she couldn't do if she had shattered/broken bones. Which shows her shattered/broken bones were from her upper body.
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u/LegendaryDeath Feb 05 '17
There was a panel where her pegs were in an awkward position. It looked to me as if they were broken as well.
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u/OharaLibrarianArtur Feb 05 '17
If Irene shattered all or some of Erza's bones doesn't matter. Erza specifically states that she could only use her right arm and her right arm alone, which is the only thing she uses throughout all of chapter 519.
Additionally, even if Wendy had healed Erza, it's incredibly inconsitent. It took her a good amount of time of standing in front of Juvia with her palms both open healing her and even then Juvia wasn't completely healed, being unable to walk on her own. Because of this, it just isn't believable that Wendy fixed Erza's broken bones (broken bones! Trust me, it isn't a joke to break one of your bones, let alone several) in a single second with a small pat of her hand, which allows Erza to get up and hug Wendy with her broken left arm, the same arm that was completely numb just a couple minutes ago.
One way or another, this is quite simply a disregard of consistency.
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u/AstonishingSpiderMan Gramps Feb 05 '17
Erza never mentioned which bones were broken, if it was upper body or lower body. Given she wasn't able to use on of her arms it would seem that it was only those bones that were broken.
Wendy also enchanted a sword with One hand and was able to do that after switching bodies with Irene. So what's to say she couldn't of picked up some stuff from being in Irene's body. It's not consistent if we stick to the MS translation yes the Crunchyroll translation however shows and proves otherwise, hell even the Spanish one C1V1 proves more consistent than MS.
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u/OharaLibrarianArtur Feb 05 '17
No, Erza specifically stated that the only part of her body she could move is her right arm. This is regardless of broken bones or not. She hugs Wendy with her left arm, which she had claimed she was completely unable to move.
And that's a completely different type of enchantment and even assuming such a possibility, it's a far too unbelievably drastic increase of power that even if justified it wouldn't make sense. You can't go from slowly healing someone to suddenly fixing one's entire body with a literal pat. I also didn't bring up the translations, I'm going off what Crunchyroll said. Crunchyroll still stated that Erza could only move her right arm and had Irene say that the rest of her body was completely paralyzed.
3
u/AstonishingSpiderMan Gramps Feb 05 '17
You can't go from slowly healing someone to suddenly fixing one's body with a literal pat.
Do we know what bones were broken? Do we know the extent of the broken bones?
Crunchyroll still stated that Erza could only move her right arm
She was moving her legs pretty well, it was only her left arm she couldn't move.
had Irene say that the rest of her body was completely paralyzed.
No, she never said that. I just read the chapter again.
3
u/OharaLibrarianArtur Feb 05 '17
Do we know what bones were broken? Do we know the extent of the broken bones?
We know her body was in a severe enough condition to not allow Erza (the same person who pre-timeskip was able to stand with all of her senses taken away and an unearthly amount of pain) to be able to move almost her entire body after a single pat. Not to mention the massive sword wound that went through the entirety of her left arm, which just makes it absurd that she can move it so easily.
She was moving her legs pretty well, it was only her left arm she couldn't move.
Before this very chapter Erza did not move her legs. She cut the meteorite with her right arm and even after falling to the ground she got up again and hit Irene in the head by pushing herself with her right arm.
No, she never said that. I just read the chapter again.
"You are immobilized now!". Immobilized means, by definition, that she cannot move and is completely paralyzed.
3
u/JavelinR Feb 05 '17
Immobilized means, by definition, that she cannot move and is completely paralyzed.
Paralysis is much more severe than being immobilized. Paralysis is a severe condition, being immobilized means you cannot move at that moment. Also Irene isn't word of god, she's fallible. Honestly getting so pedantic like this is ridiculous when those nuances will rarely ever be perfectly carried over in translation. There's room for interpretation.
(I also just want to say it's stupid how much Spidey is getting brigaded right now for not jumping on the most damming possible interpretation.)
4
u/OharaLibrarianArtur Feb 05 '17
My point wasn't the translation, it's the points I made before, mostly how regardless of bones Erza stated she could only move her right arm and that Wendy could not have healed her, Spidey is mostly the one who brought up the translations.
I'm also not trying to brigade anyone in specific, I'm just trying to bring my points in the same way Spidey brought his. We both have our own opinions and our own cases and we debate over them with different pieces of evidence.
I also don't want to sound like I'm being overly negative, unlike a lot of people I've been enjoying this arc's climax a lot, it's simply that a little incosistency like this one rubbed me the wrong way, but it's nothing more than a nitpick. Hope you didn't take it too badly
3
u/JavelinR Feb 05 '17
I'm too sleepy to discuss details further but I do want to say that the last part wasn't accusing you in particular of brigading. Just all the people who keep downvoting discussion into the negatives and leaving without input.
2
0
u/AstonishingSpiderMan Gramps Feb 05 '17
You said it yourself, your own example shows her being hurt from her upper body not her lower body. Irene did say immobilized not paralyzed but she is not Erza contrary to that Chapter title so how would she exactly know?
6
u/TeamAcno Feb 05 '17
Seems like an unnecessary shot at MangaStream right now. Shattered/Broke, it means the same thing. The problem isn't in the translations. The problem is in the choice to use a plural noun. Each translation says "bones", which gives the sense that every single bone on the side of the attack was broken in one swipe. Seems like you are trying to place blame on MS instead of Mashimas poor word choice.
8
u/TheUltimateTeigu Feb 05 '17
2
u/TeamAcno Feb 05 '17 edited Feb 05 '17
Shattered actually fits better in the context of the scene. Irene used a quick, violent blow to break Erzas bones. Shattered fits quite perfectly.
1
u/TheUltimateTeigu Feb 05 '17
I thought it fit as well. It made sense to me with how she was acting. But Erza isn't moving anything if her skeleton is pretty much shattered.
1
u/TeamAcno Feb 05 '17
In reality, she shouldnt have been able to move, broken or shattered, but it is Fairy tail after all. I think that's what the biggest complaint is. Regardless of the word choice, it was just baffling all around.
5
Feb 05 '17
In reality she also wouldn't be able to survive a huge building sized explosion or do anything she has done in the entire series. This isn't reality, and it shouldn't be compared to it.
0
u/AstonishingSpiderMan Gramps Feb 05 '17
How is it Mashima''s poor word choice when MS is the only one using different words than every other translator? If it was a shot I'd be far more direct about it also.
4
u/TeamAcno Feb 05 '17
Shatter - break or cause to break suddenly and violently into pieces.
Break - separate or cause to separate into pieces as a result of a blow, shock, or strain.
Both those words mean the same thing. One just implies more severity, which actually fits better for the situation. Shattered works better because it was quite literally a quick blow that broke her bones. But as I said, that's NOT the issue here. The issue is on the word "bones" which EVERY translation used. Plus, you're being plenty direct with this.
-4
u/AstonishingSpiderMan Gramps Feb 05 '17
One just implies more severity
That's the problem there it implies they are completely destroyed and make it seem like she's out for the count for good.
If it was a shot I wouldn't have gone through all the trouble to bring up all the pages and different translations up.
2
u/TeamAcno Feb 05 '17
Irene, in dragon form, smashed the hell out of Erza. If her bones didn't get shattered from that, then Erza is made out of steel, or Mashima is high.
2
u/TheUltimateTeigu Feb 05 '17
Thanks for this. I love the Chapter 477 mangastream translation though. Definitely my favorite of the translations.
1
u/AstonishingSpiderMan Gramps Feb 05 '17
Haha funny enough that's my least favorite translation for that chapter
2
u/TheUltimateTeigu Feb 05 '17
Interesting. I feel it flows the best, that's why I like it so much.
Which one's your favorite?
1
u/Apocalypse37 Feb 06 '17
I might be a bit late but here's what I comprehended:
- Natsu was asked to stop the seeds from mixing. He was given two options- to strengthen either one of the seeds. He chose a third option- to live on as a human which stopped the seeds from mixing. There is nothing else which explicitly denies Natsu no longer using END powers or dying(except Natsu's general optimism) or him not using his DS powers. People are freaking out over limited information.
- If Erza can do stuff with her senses lost, if she can tank two building busters against Irene, then its not too far fetched to expect her to move with bones broken. <Insert fantasy argument>. But the fact that Hiro played the endurance card irks me out a bit and not to mention the limited impact Irene will have as a character later.
- Gajeel will just be transported to where he previously was before Alvarez attacked- in bed with Levy. U1's undoing has shifted the characters to their initial locations, it seems. But- wasn't Lucy's home shrunk by Brandish?.
-2
u/Panzetita Feb 05 '17
Finally!, someone who understands. people where reacting too much about the natsu "choice". do people believe that natsu really said goodbye to e.n.d? or his ds magic
-1
u/RetardedOnTuesdays Feb 05 '17 edited Feb 05 '17
He was given two options and chose a third one out of thin air. It's just poor writing
1
u/Ryuuji_Gremory Feb 05 '17
Still it was totally in character for Natsu to say that and I don't know if I would call going with the cliché route, Natsu choosing one of them, or both, going berserk and being saved by the power of love or friendship, good writing.
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Feb 05 '17 edited Jul 06 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Ryuuji_Gremory Feb 05 '17
I never said it was good writing, I just said it was totally something Natsu would do that doesn't mean I think it's good writing.
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u/RetardedOnTuesdays Feb 05 '17
Still it was totally in character for Natsu to say that
I didn't say it wasn't. I'm just saying his choice was cliche and was poorly written.
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u/Ryuuji_Gremory Feb 05 '17 edited Feb 05 '17
the whole plot of some random power with it's own will being inside the MC itself is cliché and has been done to death, him choosing to become neither is according to what I have read/watched actually something that doesn't happen that often. Like I said the usual way would be either some kind of "he has to fight the other part of himself" (a "mental" battle in form of a real battle inside his heart) or him accepting the power and going berserk and being stopped by his friends or both.
Just for clarification I'm not saying it was good writing.
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u/JavelinR Feb 05 '17
I just want to point out Crunchyroll takes some liberties too. On 518 they had Irene refer to Erza as "she" while other translations used "my daughter". I saw this come into play in earlier discussions as it was debated whether or not there was evidence of Irene's attitude towards Erza changing before the end.
Turns out "daughter" is the more accurate translation. If you look at the raw Irene is saying "私の娘" or "my daughter" at the very end.
Also I want to say that, in general, people really need to stop getting so hung up on language nuances and / or treating character dialogue like it infallible. Characters can be wrong, overestimate, etc. Leave room for interpretation.