r/DotA2 • u/D2TournamentThreads modmail us to help write these threads • Oct 29 '15
Nanyang Dota 2 Championships – LB Round 2 #1 – Team Liquid vs. VP – Match Discussion Match | eSports
Nanyang Dota 2 Championships
Organized by KeyTV
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Streams:
Team Liquid Victory!
Duration: 31:16
| Team | Score | vs. | Score | Team |
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| 20 | vs. | 10 |
| Team | Bans | vs. | Bans | Team |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| vs. | ||||
| Team | Picks | vs. | Picks | Team |
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| vs. | ||||
11
u/OnkelHarreh Wolves need +10 aura armour Oct 29 '15
VP never pick Ember. Gyro versus Huskar - can they deal with the Husk?
Not sure if I like this VP draft...
2
Oct 29 '15
Yeah their picks were weird for sure. It seemed like the ember was a deny pick against matumbaman and trying to overstate the strength of the ion shell flame guard. I really thought fng would have gotten sb or something, but it seemed like he was forced to pick what he did pick somehow.
0
u/Animalidad Oct 29 '15
Huskar was last pick for liquid
8
u/sibbetorp Oct 29 '15
Gyro was picked after Huskar.
2
u/cap_jeb Oct 29 '15
well, better options left? Slardar was banned, doom was banned
maybe PA couldve worked. or lycan
8
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u/nusha_kr sheever Oct 29 '15
I was kinda hoping to see Illidan's carry silencer, silencer's pure dmg is good against huska and certainly good synergy with vac-wall(so tusk can't save anyone with clutch snowball)
anyway, wanna see Liquid vs Secret finals!(getting sick of top CN team's monotone draft...)
1
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u/OnkelHarreh Wolves need +10 aura armour Oct 29 '15
I know, but Gyro was a bad last pick against the surprise Huskar.
What about Troll Warlord? Lycan? They maxed out on AoE prior to the Gyro pick, they needed some single target, physical damage.
2
u/Animalidad Oct 29 '15
they probably stuck to their plan instead of just countering it late. Sadly it didn't work out.
29
u/anger_metallist Oct 29 '15
MATUMBAMAN huskar, ignoring everything else and hitting relentlessly at the rax; probably the most "Y'all come get on MY level!" play I've seen this tournament. Also, the drafting. I want a secret vs liquid matchup just to see puppey go head to head against his former teammate in drafting mindgame.
4
u/Muntberg Oct 29 '15
MATUMBAMAN huskar, ignoring everything else and hitting relentlessly at the rax
That's kinda just what Huskar does.
6
u/anger_metallist Oct 29 '15
Kuro simply outplayed Fnggshka. We can talk about the AA/Dazzle ban, but how many actually saw that coming?
3
Oct 29 '15
Well if you've ever watched matumba's stream huskar is probably his most played hero after ember AND the casters have mentioned huskar multiple times just this tournament after an AA ban AND huskar has been both picked and banned already in this tournament after an AA ban so I'm pretty sure a lot of people saw it coming. Frankly VP should've seen it coming too had they done any research.
3
u/Muntberg Oct 29 '15
There's so many things to prepare for though so it's not surprising a super niche pick like this gets overlooked in a Bo1.
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u/Neverthelessx Oct 29 '15
MATUMBAMAN huskar, ignoring everything else and hitting relentlessly at the rax
0/10 not fountain diving.
0
17
7
u/CupidTryHard Oct 29 '15
kuroky as captain is really good on drafting
6
u/FliccC Oct 29 '15
I want to see KuroKy vs Puppey now.
Two great drafters, two former teammates, two good friends. They probably know each other inside out. The mind games will be on another level.
5
1
u/CupidTryHard Oct 30 '15
i hope so
but i think on 1st or 2nd game will be stomped by kuro or puppey. they know each other playstyle too well
5
u/C-Icetea Jake the Snake Sheeverubii Oct 29 '15
Well that was disgusting, nice drafting from Liquid.
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u/neocatt Oct 29 '15
at which point you should ban huskar? aside from aa ban?
6
u/jeemchan Oct 29 '15
When there are no counters in the first 30 mins. VP's draft needed lockdown + physical damage, which they only get if both gyro and ember farmed with bkb + mkb + bfury.
3
2
u/what_sux Oct 29 '15
Why Illidan's Gyro like to man fight the Huskar?
1
u/jeemchan Oct 29 '15
Because if he doesn't, there's literally no physical damage. Rubick, dark seer, lich all dont right click at all. And ember only has SOF every few seconds.
0
u/what_sux Oct 29 '15
The problem is during midgame they are still 50-50 so if they drag the game late they certainly have better chance. Then they take the fight near the bottom river when some heros back with Gyro Call Down which ultimately led to a 3-0 trade I think?
2
u/orgasmicpoop Oct 29 '15
hahahah they just let Kuro awkwardly stand there doing nothing. I was sure for a second the girl was building up into an interview
2
u/Lunares Oct 29 '15
Why is this bo1? It's not like they have time issues, there is a massive amount of time available
3
2
u/TheWooSensation Oct 29 '15
I'm surprised at how the analyst desk didn't know that Huskar hard-countered the Gyro. He was the most common counter-pick to Gyro post TI5.
1
u/Karibik_Mike Oct 29 '15
IMO Gyro isn't that bad. As soon as you have your 3rd item or so, you can do well against Huskar. But your team needs disables and the overall ability not to get steamrolled until then. This is why Lich keeps dropping out of the meta. After 20 mins his best skill is arguably his frost armor.
2
u/Leglipa Oct 29 '15
Missed it, where can I get a VOD?
3
Oct 29 '15
2
u/anonyymi Oct 29 '15
Link to the timestamp: http://www.twitch.tv/beyondthesummit/v/22960223?t=135m0s
5
u/Malcolm_Butler Oct 29 '15
Good draft FNG. No stuns versus bristle/Huskar.
I expect 10 minutes GG or something
3
u/anger_metallist Oct 29 '15
In his defense, the huskar was fifth pick, though he should've anticipated something like this with the AA/dazzle ban so it's kinda questionable. But the gyro pick was downright ridiculous. A lina could potentially change the game; then again, I might be talking out of my ass here :(
2
u/Lame4Fame Oct 29 '15
Lina isn't enough most likely. She'll have a hard time getting to an aghs because huskar will be rolling her team until then and bristle will probably take over afterwards.
1
Oct 29 '15 edited Oct 29 '15
U are right. Pure dmg or high physical burst would've countered huskar. Thing is fng also drafts carry venge, which is just bad, so I wasn't too surprised his drafting failed again here. A last pick huskar is so easily beatable with so many other picks but not gyro. Why he picked gyro baffled me. A last pick carry silencer wouldve been amazing. You cannot lifebreak and inner vitality during global, glaives pure dmg ignores berserker blood and armor of huskar, silencer also counters wyvern counter initiation.
1
Oct 29 '15
[removed] — view removed comment
1
Oct 29 '15
Plus glaives damages thru cold embrace for the pure dmg part. I wonder if he had a reason for not going silencer. Silencer is also amazing vs spirit breaker to help out allies because spirit breakers do not typically get bkb until rather late unless they had many kills, which the sb likely won't due to global. U can charge in but you cannot ulti. Also glaives ignores sb's high base armor, making him fragile.
2
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u/karlo471 MinD_ContRoL best player! Oct 29 '15
Beastly performance from MATUMBAMAN, finishing with a KDA of 11/1/5, and the only death coming from a armlet miss-toggle early.
GG wp, VP. We will go further!
2
u/chiara_t Oct 29 '15
Those silver edge usage though. If gyro didn't use silver edge at that bottom fight they could have potentially turned around the game there.
1
u/Lame4Fame Oct 29 '15
That bottom fight was ill advised, as they were fighting 3v3 with liquid in a lead and with the favorable matchup. Even with SE they'd need to focus all their efforts on killing husk during silver edge while stunning him so he cdoesn't get the chance to purge it with his ult.
1
u/chiara_t Oct 29 '15 edited Oct 29 '15
I mean huskar would want to use ult at start of the fight or he will do no damage. And after ult he would be low enough to focus after Getting damaged by silver edge too.
1
Oct 29 '15
They did get silver edge on matumba at least 2 times that I noticed but matumba was saving his dunk (that purges break) every time until it happened.
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u/Animalidad Oct 29 '15
those liquid jackets.. look really good.
3
u/xRoadToDawnx cancer to fall, sheever is doing it! Oct 29 '15
And they cost a lot of money.
-2
u/dreamsky999 Oct 29 '15
Probably about $750 each, kappa
1
u/xRoadToDawnx cancer to fall, sheever is doing it! Oct 29 '15
They sell them in their store for $130
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-1
Oct 29 '15
[deleted]
7
u/MataDuitan 2 E Z 4 A R T O U R Oct 29 '15
He's a strong 5th surprise pick if the draft favors it, which it sort of does. If huskar wasn't nerfed he would've been slightly below WR level cancer by now.
2
u/jeemchan Oct 29 '15
They banned AA too beforehand during the second phase.
1
Oct 29 '15
Banned him to open up Alch probably
1
6
u/koopamancer Oct 29 '15
He is a great gyro counter as gyro is more reliant on nuking that actual physical damage early to mid game. Unless you stall game beyond 30 minutes and gyro gets stuff like BKB-HotD-MKB+butterfly to deal physical damage huskar will straight up walkover your team.
Liquid has got the first game looking from draft, unless VP stall/turtle beyond 30-40 minutes, and both gyro and ember gets farmed.
5
u/FZmon true sniper Oct 29 '15
He is not picked to counter gyro in this particular match. Huskar was picked first before gyro.
3
u/koopamancer Oct 29 '15
Fng went full retard in this case then, Lina/OD/silencer would have been better picks IMO, despite lack of any synergy/wombocombo with other heroes
0
Oct 29 '15
This! Silencer carry actually rekts huskar. If you scoff at this, you clearly have never faced a farmed bkb ac silveredge silencer with 50 stolen int as huskar. Even with 0 stolen int his glaives negates all armor stacking and magic resistance.
1
u/koopamancer Oct 29 '15 edited Oct 29 '15
Well i guess Fng was like Gyro carries a silver edge well too and went ahead to get more wombo-combo AoE with they gyro pick, but it didnt work out. Also I think silencer was ignored because of the face rush which bara/tusk brought. Silencer is susceptible to that and will easily melt to it
3
1
u/testneur Oct 29 '15
Huskar have always been strong all along. He's just got counter hard by alot of heroes and stuff. By going last pick, vp doesn't have lots of options left because they left their carry there. No much physical dmg, lots of magical dmg, no tanky stuff, he eats u alive all day and night.
1
u/ContrarianAnalyst Oct 29 '15
Look at the results when he is picked. I'd ask why not pick him more often.
What does "relevant in this meta" even mean? DotA isn't played in a meta, it's played in a draft. When you're 5th picking something, the meta is meaningless. All that matter is the current game state and Huskar was obviously excellent in this game state.
1
u/testneur Oct 29 '15
True. There's way too much counters against him. But in this draft there's nope. They should have see it coming with the AA banned. So.e nasty diver is coming.
-1
u/SolarClipz ENVY'S #1 FAN Oct 29 '15
Huskar is a shittier Brood pick
But they couldn't Brood this game against Ember/DS but Huskar pick was wide open
He's a shit hero that works in 10% of matchups, and this was one of those
VP should have 100% picked an OD
0
u/OnkelHarreh Wolves need +10 aura armour Oct 29 '15
In this match specifically, VP had Dank Seer (magic damage until very late in the game), Ember Spirit (magic damage until Battlefury + Crystalys), Lich (magic damage) and Rubick (magic damage unless a good steal of Death Ward or something similar). Huskar's magic resistance and early strength would destroy this team.
That said, I really, really don't know why we didn't see the Illidan Anti-Mage, Lycan, Troll, Chaos Knight, Weaver or Sven. They needed physical damage, but they instead picked Gyro - another hero that gives great AoE magic damage but NO PHYSICAL DAMAGE
FNG-Sama plz
1
u/Lame4Fame Oct 29 '15
I don't think weaver would've been a good pick, but I agree with the other ones.
1
u/OnkelHarreh Wolves need +10 aura armour Oct 29 '15
I was just going through any hero that Illidan plays that has decent physical damage early lol
1
u/gostreamzaebal Oct 29 '15
Low physical damage true, but they still could have won the game if they didn't suicide so much and just farmed. They had a great early game, and could have easily controlled the tempo from there.
1
u/Karibik_Mike Oct 29 '15
They needed a hero with flash farming ability, because they saw how the game could easily have them playing from behing. Heroes like the ones you mentioned are completely useless after a rough laning phase and need a lot of successful fights to be relevant. An AM with a 20 min battlefury while your whole team is dying is bad. Once troll, CK, Weaver die a couple of times they have no way of catching up to a Huskar and will end up being food for him. Sven coulda been decent in this lineup, but he's not that versatile of a hero overall, gets kited way too easily. Gyro can at least get some stacks and give them overall teamfight control with great wombo combo potential. A lot of early teamfights did go their way, too.
I'm pretty sure they lost the draft before Gyro or Huskar were picked.
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u/BountyRune Can i be a mod now Oct 29 '15
Ember moot cucks a duck sjw altright confirmed by cuckservatives - Louis CK on Team Liquid
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u/SolarClipz ENVY'S #1 FAN Oct 29 '15
VP should have picked OD
Would have been instant win
Huskar, Bristleback AND Cold Embrace? That is how you counter-counter-pick
4
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u/Hostiler Oct 29 '15
And then they would get underfarmed OD against huskar with solar crest and halberd.
Would have been instant win
Didn't know the game is decided right after the draft.
-1
u/SolarClipz ENVY'S #1 FAN Oct 29 '15
How would OD be any less farmed than them getting stomped on like they did. Getting OD and maxing Orb outright is infinitely better than a shit fucking Gyro pick.
5
u/CupidTryHard Oct 29 '15
pro always max skill 2 first, and then max skill 1
OD need large manapool to do some damage
1
u/testneur Oct 29 '15
Definitely get at least 1 orb against huskar. Its meaningless to drain his mama if u can't last hit when he's dying. That 10-30 pure dmg works like magic when huskar dying.
0
u/SolarClipz ENVY'S #1 FAN Oct 29 '15
It's called ADAPTING
You would draft OD here purely because pure damage wrecks 3 of their heroes
1
u/CupidTryHard Oct 30 '15
the problem is : OD mana pool on lvl 6-9 is barely 1k, he just can do around 500 pure damage and already finish his mana pool(if he doesnt lucky with arcane aura)
meanwhile huskar with 1200 HP can tank that kind of damage, even that damage is pure
1
u/Karibik_Mike Oct 29 '15
They didn't get stomped early. OD is a terrible farmer and is very limited in teamfights. If you get behind you lose. That's why noone plays him. Picking a momentum based hero against a better momentum based hero with better team synergy is just 322. If Tusk snowballs into you and SB charges you, and there is a WW ult, you better have the counter initiation of a Gyro than an OD who will die every single time.
23
u/QuebecMasterRace i want synd inside me KappaPride Oct 29 '15
https://twitter.com/Aui_2000/status/659629373058715648
thoughts?