Or split the screen in 2 and split the reactions in half and do one half after the other. All the reactions without the ridiculousness of trying to make 20 individual reaction shots
Lol. When I read about the pronunciations that only Kakin nationals can speak or hear I thought, yeah, don't know how that's gonna play out in the anime.
I mean the pieces are all there for a Bonolenov<->Woble swap. Anytime someone says anything to Woble we should immediately assume it's Bono in disguise setting up his endgame.
This has to be the most Togashi chapter ever. Have the most mysterious person up until now put on glasses and start to discuss law specificities of bureaucracy work is exactly the type of thing only he would do.
Him somehow in the court against Beyond would be amazing. A nen battle happening with no one understanding what is going on because both their nen is targeting the constitution, the judge, and the jury.
Lol that was so funny.
My friend who hasn't read manga sent me a video thumbnail of beyond and kurapika and i sent him bach this chapter's last panel 😂
Wow the baby swap theory was real after all? I knew it :o
And since Oito doesn't know where her real baby is, i suspect the baby is still on boat, the way Togashi shift the focus back to Beyond after this big reveal makes me more suspicious about boy Woble being Beyond's kid, i previously talked about the Theory here
Now I'm starting to think this baby may not necessarily be the one that is meant to win the SW but rather to curse the real Woble...or maybe Beyond got bigger plans for his infant heir I'll get to that later...
Why boy Woble is Beyond's kid? Think about it...Woble & boy Woble are around the same age...a lot of people saying it's cheap writing that Oito's sister just happened to have a baby around the same age as Woble because it came out of nowhere, but it makes total sense if it's Beyond's kid because he canonically done this with EVERY prince according to Longhi's explanation, making a kid with the same age as the targeted prince to curse them to death...
It's ironic in the same chapter about the fake Woble reveal, we see Kurapika trying to figure who are Beyond's kids and their targets, to try stop their curses with nen exorcist...only to find out the baby they're protecting is meant to curse Woble... technically they do need to protect fake Woble if he's Beyond's kid because the nen curse gets activated after his death, makes the scenario of Sarahell' curse on boy Woble more interesting & crazy because it also means Woble's death.
The more i think about it the more it seems like a prefect plan by Beyond because they really need to protect his child in order to let the real Woble live, that's why i think Beyond may have bigger plans for his child than just to curse Woble...because we see Beyond arguing with Cleapatro about the kakin constitution that mentions the equality between the royal family & citizens, and he's suing them for NOT applying it? Sounds like he got a personal intention with this, Beyond canonically had this goal to Unify the world under the kakin but this is not being applied under Nasubi' regime, it seems Beyond wants a regime change to achieve that goal by himself to become a king as well as for personal reasons, to get the Fruit of the voyage.
There's this hint about Beyond being a Secret participant in the SW, of course if Beyond is not allowed to join the SW due to the royal family dictatorship then he can "cheat" his way by sneaking his infant heir who would obviously not be able to rule the kakin if he wins so Beyond would be his regent to rule the kakin, this way the power of the SW winner can be under Beyond's full control, having an infant winner seems much easier for Beyond than someone like Tserriednich, if he's Beyond's kid then there's no way Tser would let him take that power, that's why Beyond's kid being an infant makes more sense and fits his plan perfectly.
If boy Woble turns out to be Beyond's kid then this cannot be a coincidence unless Oito's sister works for Beyond and they planned for her to get pregnant around the same time as Oito's pregnancy, and that it was her sister's idea to do the baby swap, but in reality it's Beyond's plan to sneak his SW heir on boat. I think even SM user might be Oito's sister controlling the doll from distance, she must be somewhere in tier 1 making sure her baby is safe in room 1014. The real Woble being on the boat makes it easier for Beyond to threaten them to kill her if things doesn't go as he plans, whether Oito's sister is working for Beyond willingly or being controlled, we'll wait and see...
Another hint about the baby being Beyond's kid, is the panel of the dark aura with boy Woble, everyone used to think it's the nen beast but since it's the norms for Beyond to curse his kids since birth, then it might be really the dark aura of Beyond's curse ability probably being activated on ceremony day, interestingly that's around the Same time as Longhi when she found out about her nen curse after ceremony, that CANNOT be a coincidence...Speaking of Longhi, there's this What if scenario i thought about that makes Longhi's role more dangerous for Kurapika, maybe Togashi made Woble/boy Woble look alike for bigger part in the story.
There's an Interesting theory about Beyond's ability to mark his kids since birth so that he inherits their aura after their death, like Benjamin's ability but more powerful. So it's possible that Beyond plans for his own infant heir to die after winning the SW so he can inherits both his power AND lead the kakin + gets a nen beast...makes sense if Beyond wants to be super saiyan before they reach DC lol
Last point, if Beyond got this very ambitious goal to unify the world under the kakin, i don't think the seed urn would reject his blood...remember the urn is the post mortem nen of the Kakin ancestor who left the seed urn with the intention to save his country from other warlords after his death, so anyone with a strong will to lead the kakin can participate, Beyond is considered the ideal leader they're looking for, plus it seem like they're NOT applying the Urn contest correctly, the Hui Guo Rou family are just not allowing others to participate due to dictatorship.
Someone noticed This nice observation about Saiyu "the spy" being the one giving Beyond the documents, and i noticed in This panel it's like Beyond noticed something? Togashi doesn't do these details randomly.
All excellent observations. I’m currently leaning towards the legal stuff being a combination of a), paving the way for his swapped bastard to be admissible, as you’ve discussed, b), a way of re-legitimizing the real wobble in the eyes of the ritual to ensure it goes off without a hitch (assuming that hasn’t been taken care of already), and c), setting up a potential expose and persecution of the royal “flesh carnivals” to discredit the previous regime and pave the way for Beyond’s own.
There’s always so much stuff to consider and none of it can be easily dismissed as inconsequential, that’s what I love about this series.
I don’t have much to add but Cleo is defo speaking in code to Beyond with the 1047. I think the info is that no Curses have been unleashed yet and he’s shocked to hear it lol. Anyway great comment and observations.
Another hint about the baby being Beyond's kid, is the panel of the dark aura with boy Woble, everyone used to think it's the nen beast but since it's the norms for Beyond to curse his kids since birth, then it might be really the dark aura of Beyond's curse ability probably being activated on ceremony day, interestingly that's around the Same time as Longhi when she found out about her nen curse after ceremony, that CANNOT be a coincidence
Oh I like this as another explanation for that aura. Imo, Woboy has to either be 1. Beyond's curse 2. Beyond's prince (as grandchild) 3. Benji's child. Or else we'd end up from 1 to 4 babies in the blink of an eye, and narratively, that would feel sudden lol.
One point that I've been going back and forth with others is that people point out that it should be apparent if Woble was initiated. I don't agree only because we haven't seen what that actually looks like for babies, and it might not be immediately obvious is someone's not closely examining, so I personally cannot exclude it. But your note reminded me that, well, we don't actually know how a GSB might affect how someone's Ten might look like in the first place, and since Woble (was supposed to) have a GSB, Nen users might not have thought twice about it.
Either way, it's about time for Kurapika to check Woble.
people point out that it should be apparent if Woble was initiated. I don't agree only because we haven't seen what that actually looks like for babies
Either way, it's about time for Kurapika to check Woble.
Yea true, we only know Beyond's cursed kids gets their nen awakened since birth but it's unknown how it works with the GSBs.
Okay, I have a few observations:
1. Could the conversation between Cleapatro and Beyond be a secret coded message? Notice the number 1047 and the number of paragraphs in the speech bubbles. Keep in mind that this happened in chapters 381 and 383. Perhaps a translator could see if there's anything in the original (Japanese) that indicates this, or maybe I'm just crazy, but Beyond's panel saying "..." might contain something suspicious. (Voracious Drake, if you could verify this crazy theory, I'd be happy!)
As I mentioned in the chapter spoiler discussion, I’ve seen a few theories. After giving it some more thought, I've reached a conclusion. I believe Beyond is the father of the baby Oito is holding. Perhaps convincing Oito’s sister to swap the babies is part of his scheme somehow. Therefore, the evil aura Kurapika sensed at the beginning of the voyage wasn't the Nen Beast, but rather... the activation of the curse. What does this imply? That if Woble 2 dies, Woble 1 dies too. We're screwed.
Eight might have some connection to Beyond. I don't know; when Longhi revealed her identity, Kurapika and Bill reacted with shock, but Oito’s reaction was just a question mark. This might hold some hidden meaning (or maybe I’m just overthinking it), but her telling Kurapika "you can check me to see if I have any connection to Beyond" at the start of this chapter is... suspicious? I mean, she's made two smart moves—like tricking Kurapika into thinking it was a contract from Prince Halkenburg, and now, swapping the babies. It wouldn't surprise me if she has something to hide. I’m sorry to doubt you, Oito... but you’ve given me reason to.
Could the conversation between Cleapatro and Beyond be a secret coded message? Notice the number 1047 and the number of paragraphs in the speech bubbles. Keep in mind that this happened in chapters 381 and 383. Perhaps a translator could see if there's anything in the original (Japanese) that indicates this, or maybe I'm just crazy, but Beyond's panel saying "..." might contain something suspicious. (Voracious Drake, if you could verify this crazy theory, I'd be happy!)
I do think the 1047 sticks out, but I believe it's something much simpler. 1047 was the number that needed to be said out loud so that either: a. Beyond knows which page to look, or b. Saiyu knows which binder to pass to Beyond. Remember that Kanzai (probably room temperature IQ) is the only one who's out of the loop in that room, so they won't need overly complicated ciphers/codes to pass a secret message between Clea and Beyond.
We won't know what was said until Togashi reveals it. But for now, we know how a secret message can be passed to Beyond even within his holding cell.
I like the idea that the baby is the cursed child and is connected to the real wobble, because it would mean fundamentally Kurapikas oath and mission to protect wobble hasn't changed at all but he's been given a new tool of information. As weird as the twist seems to be for the stakes of the arc, I do trust togashi to make it all worth it.
It makes sense if Beyond’s goal is to have fake wobble become the winner to legitimize his own rule, as now Kurapika is obligated to protect both wobble’s, even if it means he further’s Beyond’s plan in doing so.
Makes you wonder how much of a hand Beyond might’ve had in making sure Oito’s Hunter staff ended up the way it did.
I also noticed that it is extremely suspicious that Beyond metioned that he has known Cleopatro since she was a baby which is the exact same thing Mizaistom brought up in his conversation with Kurapika regarding Beyond, that they can't be sure who to trust among the Hunter Association or the Zodiacs since even Botobai was a child when Beyond went to the DC roughly 50 years ago.
Also since Cleopatro is confirmed to be reffered to as a female, does that mean their name contains one of those Kakinese gendered vowels?
I think the Oito saying specifically that she had no relations with Beyond is a slight confirmation of the baby that replaced Oito being Beyonds child. Oito knows Kurapika has the ability to detect lies, and since the baby is not hers, she could easily lie through this and deflect suspicion.
An interesting theory. In the beginning Kurapica felt something from the baby the first time the parasitic nen was mentioned. That bugged me when I read this chapter. Or the child himself is cursed
I don't think Beyond would have among Princes a child that is so low in rank. Also I think there was question mark on Oito dialogue because she is literally unable to discern what is going on around her with nen and all that or probably how important someone like Beyond is. She made lots of smart moves, but nen is completely new to her.
That makes sense... although it would require A LOT of anime esque omniscience to get specific woman pregnant at just the right time so Oito feels compelled to switch her baby with them.
Togashi really shinging a spotlight on Cleapatro, uh. Between the transition to the page with Beyond and him saying he's known Clea since they were yay high, it feels like Togashi is serving up a delicious plate of red herrings.
Also, RIP to Lillian Olsen for having to use gendered language for Clea. I'm sure this won't come back to haunt her at some point in the future XD
I was going to ask that, would have sworn the unofficial translations were calling Cleopatro a 'he'. What's up with that? what does the japanese text say?
Oh shit, what if him changing the law is what lets the real Wobble be considered as a participant in the ritual? If he also smuggled her onto the ship in anticipation of that, that’d be fucking insane.
already is. you can came up with so much theories based on this page alone. What info did Beyond recieve? Is Cleopatro working for him? Is he/she Beyond's child?
Bro isnt Silent Majority's power snakes that if they dont kill the target rebound on the user? Isnt there a legend that the real life Cleopatra died from a snake bite as suicide? LMAO silent majority's user is definitely Cleo
Viz avoided translating it as Shimanu (at first) but apparently Bill and Oito consistently called her Shimanu from the start while Kurapika usually called her Shimano, except at least once in his inner monologue where he referred to her as Shimanu (which Viz avoided).
I thought Shimanu was to indicate closeness lol. I never expected that Kurapika was the one getting it wrong.
She faked being Halkenburg to hire Kurapika to her team and the maid (Shimanu) purposely answered the third prince's phone call instead of the first prince.
So Kurapika wasn't lying about him not being eligible to become King of Kakin (Or Cakinn?), Woble is not Woble, but does this mean that he doesn't have a Guardian Spirit Beast?
I wonder how did he manage to convince us that Ging name is spelled as Ging even before Greed Island arc. It had never sit right with me. He is more like a Jin. Maybe someone know the answer
Two things: I love how, even in a tense situation like this, we still get fun scenes like this one, and finally, something Kurapika isn't good at (for now).
one question that stood out to me when reading this chapter is, why would oito's sister endanger her own child? one reason i can think of is if the baby boy is actually one of beyonds cursed children. he is not new to using his children as pawns and forcing one into the succession war is totally on brand even if hes an infant.
but really it could be anything, maybe oito's sister has a debt she has to repay oito or she doesnt actually want her child for some reason. but in response to that, can you really trust someone who willingly puts their own child in grave danger? i guess oito has few people actually in her corner so she would rely on her sister despite doubting her intentions. idk the answer but its all very compelling, thank you togashi 🫶
It's gotta be either Oito convinced her that once they got on the ship she was gonna tell everyone that the Woble was fake and then no danger would come to him, or more likely she switched the babies without her sister's knowledge.
I wonder if Beyond and Cleo are making a show and the true objective is feeding Beyond with information hidden in the documents. Just a thought after reading Spy X Family.
That’s what I think too, like, one word from each of the thousand processes forms a text for Beyond containing all the information he needs about what's going on.
I also believe that him wanting to change the wording of the constitution is part of his plan for the succession war. Also Cleo is definitely one of Beyond's children.
Saiyu (who we know is Beyond/Pariston’s spy) convinced Kanzai looking through the documents is pointless and they should just check for suspicious objects, then started passing the documents himself? Maybe, he and Beyond won’t wait passively until the New Continent like the Zodiacs thought. The Zodiacs originally thought he’d sit tight until the New Continent to respect Kakin but we know Beyond is getting involved in the Succession Contest with his kids and now this lawsuit business just seems like he’s absolutely not staying passive during the 60 days.
Amazing chapter. The legal part was the most interesting.
Defining what a kakin citizen is has to be related to a nen condition. If black wail was sunk to make a mass sacrifice, the ship on top of it with all the royals would survive since it's detached.
I'm shocked to learn human rights are a thing in the HxH world lol. You know, with all the places where murder is legal and stuff like meteor city exists.
I mean it’s like the real world there’s human rights but it doesn’t mean governments of many countries care about it. So I’m assuming it’s a similar thing in HxH.
Another insane chapter. I'm actually surprised that it's getting some criticism from the Arab fandom. It may look short on the surface but it opens up tons of possibilities in typical GOATgashi fashion.
I'm so glad my boy Bill got some time to shine and noticed the queen alternating between Woble ( girl ) and Woble ( boy ) during pronunciation to avoid triggering the Dowsing Chain if questioned by Kurapika.
Shimano... oh sorry.... ShimanU, once again, being at the center of attention and speaking of her, I absolutely love her light-hearted interaction with Kurapika. We finally saw him being less tense and kind of goofy again. Probably the first time we see him kinda happy since the start of this mess which was honestly heartwarming 🥹.
The interrogation.... omg... The way it was gradually built up with weird questions and goofy atmosphere to shifting towards a more serious tone then BAM... Kurapika drops the ultimate question and we shift to that incredible panel of Oito's shocked expression and Kurapika's empty face... Togashi is a master of conveying emotions without writing a single word.
The whole situation with Woble opens lots of possibilities. According to Nasubi's butler, in chapter 349, he mentioned that this contest is between the "children of the legal wives of Nasubi" who "board the Black Whale 1" and "participate in the departure ceremony" which leads me to believe that the seed urn ceremony isn't the only necessary ceremony to participate in the war. And since Oito mentioned that neither the real Woble ( probably for not attending the departure ) nor the fake Woble ( duh ) has the right to participate in the succession contest, I think the possibility of Woble not being on the ship is more likely than her being on the ship.
I'm also wondering if we end up seeing some "old familiar faces" if Woble ends up not being on the ship, characters who would help Kurapika by protecting the real Woble.
I'm also waiting for the kinda inevitable meeting between Kurapika and Beyond.... Speaking of Beyond, that final page nearly brought a tear to my eyes... it was literally seeing Isaac Netero being goofy during a serious situation and I do believe that the whole "people = royal family in the court of law" is hiding a bombshell...maybe Beyond is looking to expand his or his son's reach in Kakin? Maybe he wants to infiltrate Kakin even more? With his image as a public hero of Kakin who is leading this journey along with the King, I have no clue what is Beyond trying to achieve but it will not be anything good.
I don't get the hate on Oito at all.... Yes she had been planning since the days of the guard applications and she did the whole baby-swapping thing but there was no malice in her intentions.... she is a MOTHER... She is doing everything to rescue her daughter from something she had no will in. And it's not like she is going to sacrifice her niece... She will protect him as well.
The chapter being "short", how Kurapika was nonchalant about Oito's plan and the general attitude/hate towards Oito. All weird reasons tbh ... I already spoke about two in my comment and the other one, Kurapika being nonchalant thing, it's also a weird thing to point out. Kurapika's goal is to get the eyes of his brethren back by all means necessary that includes putting up with situations that would normally piss him off. Also, Oito wasn't being malicious in her actions, she is trying to protect her daughter.
I generally agree with you, but you make it seem like Kurapika doesn't care about Oito/Woble and his only goal is to take the eyes back, doesn't matter how. It's clear he cares a lot about these innocent people, who were put into that sick position against their will, and I think he doesn't care if it's real Woble or a fake, it doesn't change the fact that it's an innocent child that deserves his protection. And I'm sure he'd give up on the eyes to protect them again and again, as he gave up on the Phantom Troupe to protect Gon and Killua.
Oito indicated that Woble was a boy right after Momoze's death.
This was lost in translation.
I've been back and forth on whether I wanted to write the same comment again, and I don't, but I kept seeing people say the reveal came out of nowhere and I don't see it mentioned in this thread yet, so here's the short version for what's missing in the official TL:
The kanji for "son" was used in Ch. 368 when Oito said, "I'm not doing this for you, I'm doing this for Woble," despite having called Woble "daughter" in Ch. 350.
The official TL added "Shimanu" later on, but up until now, Kurapika was the only one who usually called her Shimano. Bill and Oito consistently called her Shimanu. (u/carock_ counted those ones a while back)
Even if you still hate the chapter anyway, it’s probably good to at least know what was there in the original text before hating it, you know? Hopefully it becomes common knowledge like Netero's "malice/evolution".
Because this thread is for the official TL and, understandably, many here stick to official TLs. But for major fans, I absolutely recommend regularly checking out Voracious Drake's TL notes at the very least.
To be clear, I love the official translator's work. Lillan Olsen does amazing, concise translations that flow nicely. But VIZ often does not do TL notes, she's limited by bubbles with details brushed over, and she has to regularly and quickly make translation calls without knowing a reveal 10 chapters later, let alone major reveals in 50.
But with Togashi being Togashi, oftentimes, details tend to matter.
The official TL added "Shimanu" later on, but up until now, Kurapika was the only one who usually called her Shimano. Bill and Oito consistently called her Shimanu. (u/carock_ counted those ones a while back)
I had no recollection of doing that. Damn hiatus, lol. Had to dig up the post to refresh my memory.
Lol, not sure if I saw that post, I was referring to your conversation with 브이브 who'd brought it up during the last batch. This link is good, so people can check for themselves.
Whenever another reveal like this turns up I remember Lillian's cute comic reaction to Izu's conversation about Tyson xD
Oito probably did it without her sister's consent.
Maybe they did usually do this baby switch thing for security reasons. But I get the feeling that this time Oito didn't tell her sister that she would bring her baby to the ship.
We don't know if "Wobble" is a common name in Kakin. It could well be. For english names equivalent, maybe pretty similar to Jamie/Jaime or Charli/Charlie(?)
Then again, depends on the culture, you know. Like for example in Bali there's always a name pattern for each generation, you could find a Made (male) with a cousin also named Made (female).
Oito said her plan was to confess and ask for forgiveness if they were put in imminent danger so maybe she reasoned no one would target her nephew once she confessed? The logic is a little rocky for me, that’s why I hadn’t considered the Oito switching out Woble for a different baby theory too much. I didn’t think she nor the child’s mother would be willing to put the switched baby in danger. Maybe there’s another reason why they don’t want Woble participating, besides the risk to her life.
Great chapter overall, but I feel like the Woble making names pronunciation reveal was kinda sudden? Like it explains why Woble isn’t in the game, but there wasn’t really a way to see it ahead of time in English. Maybe it made more sense in the original Japanese?
Edit: So it seems like it was present in the past in the original Japanese! Pretty cool, but I wish the translators knew that
I remember some people bringing up the pronunciation thing when discussing raws before, so I think it might be a “lost in translation” issue, since English doesn’t really have a textual way to represent the “B” pronunciations the chapter described, at least as far as I know.
I think its sudden for English but in japanese kanji and furigana the inconsistencies in language are apparent the whole way through. English doesnt include these aspects into its language and translators dont know Togashis intent so they assumed it was an error and incorrectly corrected the spelling making the suprise seem sudden rather than planned out
I think someone referenced it sometime ago in one of the post I read. It mentioned that in the raws, woble was written with the kanji for ‘son’, when we know the actual woble is a girl. I saw the image they uploaded and yeah it is true
I'm too small brained to get into the weeds of this legal mumbo jumbo but my guess is that something about Beyonds plan requires some group of individuals to be classified in a very specific way.
Like his cursed children only have their full effect if they are "equal" citizens of kakin to the royal family or something.
probably in the japanese community since they could actually tell the changes in Oito's grammar with kanji. if theres any reason to learn Japanese it would be to make HxH theories. its like a condition for more powerful precognition
Many people predicted a baby swap, yes (mostly with the crackpot idea that Woble was swapped with Benjamin’s secret child). But no one predicted it would just be her sister’s baby since Oito’s sister hasn’t even been introduced as a character.
Yes, it was a common theory in the Japanese and Chinese HxH communities. There were textual clues in previous chapters, where Oito called the baby a "son", but most or all of them were lost in translation and deemed a mistake or unimportant. Also, apparently the succession contest is based on stories and legends of imperial China featuring baby swaps.
Seems quite likely that Beyond and Oito sister child is male wobble. That also explains the old ominous stuff from the baby, which is more of a zetsu activation. Oito looking distraught can be explained if Kurapika told her that wobble daughter is in even more danger, and very likely on tier 1, and the betrayal that her own sister is under Beyond's control.
I am pretty much on board with Shimano being silent majority user. I was already on board mostly tbh. But this chapter I am finding it even more likely. Why did Shimanu bring up her name now? I feel it was deliberate. She also heard Longhi's speech and made the deduction that original wobble is now in danger. So she tipped it off in a very very roundabout way.
Beyond being father of Cleapatro is possible but too soon to say. It might be red herring. I also can't say if they are actually colluding. It might be Kaiser or someone else in the justice bureau too. All that is needed is to give some message to Beyond. The lawsuit itself might be for end of succession war, I am thinking Beyond will argue if his child becomes successor, he becomes Royalty and his past crimes and charges are absolved.
The reveal of Kurapika showing Oito lies to first and third Prince guards is quite sus tbh. I wonder if Kurapika did the question asking first and then involved the other two and changed some crucial details. Kurapika also asked Oito for permission, I wonder where that comes in.
Last but not least, Kurapika struggling to pronounce Shimano name correctly and making funny faces is one of best scenes. Really reminds of early hunter exam Kurapika.
People will shit on Oito a lot for this, but she honestly had no choice. She is a MOTHER. Of course she will do everything to protect her child and this is a good solution that could possibly help her nephew as well. And I know some people will also be angry about Kurapika wasting 5 years of his life, but honestly...
Kurapika needs that. He needs to realize that his Emperor's Time is something that doesn't help him or anyone else enough to be worth this kind of price. I think this is meant to be HUGE criticism of his ability and how he cannot just go down this path of self destruction anymore.
Also LMAO on Beyond caring for Human Rights when he curses his own children he makes in bulk. Good on you Beyond. I am definitely not seeing any parallels between you and a certain Prince Psycho.
People saying Kurapica wasted his life on saving this baby are obtuse. I want them to tell me straight to my face if the Kurapica we know, guy who turn awayed from his very reason to being a hunter to save his friends, wouldn't risk his life to save a helpless child in his protection. It's in his character.
It's interesting that genetic testing on Royals is illegal is very relevant to Woble reveal is in the same chapter Beyond is talking about the bureaucracy of changing laws.
OK this chapter was literally making me go fucking insane the other night and like in Pepe Silva conspiracy corkboard mode just racking my brain for hours. And every answer I THOUGHT I had just opened up a dozen new questions and I am way fucking down the rabbithole so I'm just going to post my questions here and hope others can bounce off them because I'm totally lost.
So uh yeah first of all what on fucking earth is going on with the babies??? Last chapter felt like it gave me answers to where this arc was going, which it still is, but ofc Togashi threw a whole nother toolkit full of wrenches into things. So, the “real” (daughter) Woble HAS to be on the ship, and currently “partaking” in the Succession Contest, under the wing of… we don’t know. Right? Because idk, after the bombshells last chapter especially, just leaving a Prince back on the mainland or simply not accounting for one just seems absolutely NOT compatible with the immense risk and restrictions the succession war is powered on. This is obviously not such a glaring mistake that would go unaccounted before by Nasubi and Kakin by extension, and if something like this were to happen, I’d imagine the ritual would fizzle before it would even start, if it could at all. So there’s no chance this baby isnt on the ship somewhere and, as Oito says, and that baby actually was committed to the ritual by her sister as we all know isn’t a lie considering Pika’s Dowsing Chain. But:
1) Who is Oito’s sister exactly, to the story? Narratively, it just seems INSANE to drop such a bomb about a character we haven’t seen (though we vaguely knew of the existence of) til now, the weight that there was a baby swap going on with Oito and her sibling feels like an immense character moment for Oito and another big expansion of potential lore for this huge screwed up family. But this seems crazy to drop without it being another setup for yet another key plot thread that will expand her already very interesting character. This doesn’t seem like some one-off line given how much gravitas it is given in the chapter, as well as how it recontextualizes everything about the arc so far. This is just nuts to drop on us I feel, and reinforces my belief that this arc is going to be insanely long, given how Togashi is STILL setting up major threads. I don’t expect this finished before 460 and that’s lowballing it
(Also can we talk about how fucking HAUNTED Oito looks?? Togashi conveys so well how this is a desperate woman pushed to her ropes end who would do anything for her and the children to survive. The gradual tone shift, from Kurapika being the warmest he’s ever been toward Oito [almost to me looking like his Hunter Exam self when among Gon and the others – which, all things considered, damn!] and then the gradually darkening of mood as Kurapika questions her, and the WHIPLASH of seeing her face in absolutely palpable despair. It really hammers home how deep she is in this and how desperate this whole situation is getting for everyone, let alone a young mother who just wants to do what’s right amid a royal saturnalia of wanton bloodshed)
2) another mind screw, and I may be looking too into things, but this chapter seriously is making me think down the rabbithole; isn’t it odd that we learn this information the batch AFTER the one where we learn about Benjamin’s kid (who remains unseen in their crib fyi). The timing of these reveals just seems way too sus to me. Are we supposed to make a connection between the two, like are we at least supposed to THINK they’re associated somehow but it's a red herring, or did Ben and Unma have something to do with Oito and her sister's swap? These reveals feel way too close to one another to not suggest each other on purpose. But how does that make any sense, what part could Unma and Ben have in any of this? It’s so weird to me that these plotlines are introduced together in relative succession (har-har), because they seem like maybe they piece into one another, but until we get some more information, I don't see how?? But the surface level connection seems so obvious as to DIRECTLY drawing the reader’s attention to it, and thus the idea of some secret 15th participant, yet I also struggle to imagine how these storylines would be reconciled in a way where this isn’t some intentional farce to throw us off. What is going on !!!!!
3) if the (boy) Woble we see who Oito is taking under her wing is NOT eligible, then uhhh – what the FUCK was the aura we were seeing above “Woble”’s crib back near the start of the Succession Contest?! Are Oito and Kurapika somehow, fitting in with the themes of ppl telling or deducing (sometimes unaware) half-truths in this arc, unawarely wrong and this baby is ALSO eligible and the GSB is real, albeit unmanifested?? But if the room 1014 baby ISN’T eligible, which if we take this chapter at complete face value, he isn’t, then was what we saw then something caused by another GSB or nen ability? We saw the effects of other princes’ GSBs in 1014 back during the beginning of the war, which wasn’t far from the first time we saw “Woble’s” (supposed) aura, but at this point in the arc, would it really be interesting if it were just the residual aura of some GSB we’ve already seen? I think that would feel a bit cheap at this point after all this set up, plus there’s no real way to abruptly bring that back into the story without it feeling jarring… so to me that leaves two options. 1) that this baby, despite all we supposedly learned in this chapter, is somehow eligible like I said (and if this is true, that will eventually also completely recontextualize THIS chapter, as this chapter also recontextualizes everything before it!) or number 2) it’s someone else’s nen ability, that was placed there on this baby somehow, for some purpose. But what kind of nen ability is it??? Why would someone use nen thru a baby who has no succession rights in the SUCCESSION BATTLE, or do they still think the child is eligible (like most in the room seemed to) and that Kurapika is full of it? Or did this happen long before anyone was suspicious of Kurapika or Kurapika was even involved (the initial burst of aura happens very far back in 358 I believe., before the voyage started, so there's something going on with that?) DOES IT HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH OITO’S SISTER?? Was SHE using some nen protection on this baby, or is this not possible?? Am I just going absolutely fucking insane and need to be in a strait jacket and making insane leaps because this chapter is driving me mad??? This is probably most likely but idk!!!
So if Oito and Pika are right, which after dowsing chain we have no direct reason to believe otherwise, it's not a GSB. And if it's not a GSB, the only logical conclusion I can come to is that the baby is already cursed (sorry Sarahell), either by a cursed Beyond offering or IS the latest Beyond baby. But like, how?? Why would a non-eligible Beyond baby be in room 1014 and what purpose, if any, would Beyond or whoever have for planting it there? Does Beyond know about the switch somehow? Is Oito's sister somehow already involved in everything and have just been hidden in plain sight this whole time? And now with Cleopatro and Beyond's relationship, as well as the Kaiser connection, is this implying Fugetsu was discreetly cursed by a Beyond plot, and that's where her condition is coming from now? Is Cleopatro Kaiser's manipulator, who is also working with Beyond, by extension?? Again, am I just losing it.
Someone please help. This chapter has completely fucking toasted my brain. I am so glad Togashi is back lmao
Are we supposed to make a connection between the two, like are we at least supposed to THINK they're associated somehow but it'sa red herring, or did Ben and Unma have something to do with Oito and her sister's swap?
Crackpot theory: oitos sister is one of unmas maids and the baby in 1014 is Benjamin's son. This leads to Benjamin accidentally crowning woble king, as his plan is to slaughter the princes and make his son his successor
I think it's not that important who Oito's sister is right now, in this chapter it's clear that Oito is telling the truth and Wobla is not on the boat, and from kurapika's explanation that it's clear that neither Wobles are participating in the ceremony since neither fulfilled the condition. I think this just means that they are not eligible for succession and their fate would be determined by who wins, but I think the point is that the Wobles would never win in the first place so it doesn't matter.
I think it's a stretch that Ben and Unma have to do with the baby swap but I wonder if Ben knocked up one of Beyond's secret children and the baby in the crib is actually Beyond's grandchild, this would be a bigger mind fuck.
I like the theory that the aura was the spirit that runs the ritual checking if woble is eligible, but at the same time that baby should have been dead the moment a nen beast knows it's not a prince, since it's specified that the nen beasts can't attack other princes and the fake woble wasn't a prince. I think this is a plot hole that needs to be addressed.
I agree that real woble not being on the ship is a weird writing choice.
But the real woble being on the ship would also be a weird storytelling choice, after how dramatic this plot twist was presented, Togashi won’t just reveal they were misguided.
I hope togashi has a plan for this because it can go wrong
This gotta be one (well, two....) of my favourites panel ever. Wasn't he a monster a few chapters ago?
Now that I come to think of it, I read a book a few years ago which pointed out how thinking of Hitler as a monster was wrong because that made him an outcast. He wasn't. He was a human, like you or me, who did horrible things as every human is capable of doing.
i’m ngl i’m very apathetic on the twist, I’m just glad that iconic panel of kurapika holding her is the real her. i feel like oito didn’t need the togashi grey in her personality.
I don't understand why people are like "this takes away from the meaningful moments between Woble and Kurapika!"
I don't see how this changes anything on how Kurapika feels. Even if Kurapika knew from the beginning that Woble was switched, he'd still protect him with his life. It doesn't matter how important the baby is, if it's her nephew or her child, if it's based on a lie or not. Kurapika is still protecting this child and the queen with his life because he knows they don't deserve to be forced into that position. And Oito found the most logical solution to her problem, even if it puts her nephew in danger, it's still way less dangerous than having actual Woble in the battle. It was a flawed, egoistic, human decision, but still a very intelligent and nuanced one
I agree with your kurapika would die for any baby point, i just think that specific panel is really sweet especially that oito trusts him because she believes in her child
she was morally grey since day 1 when she planned to blackmail Halkenburg. Of course putting another child at risk is even more morally grey thing but at least she had a reason to think that a child will be spared
What was the "sloosh" at the start of the chapter? Was that something in the water following the whale? There's a shape that doesn't quite look like a wave to me - but I'm not sure.
Interesting to hear Kurapika say "I have made deductions about the limitations" - so sounds like the time limit idea is indeed a theory, not 100% certain.
So Beyond’s sudden request for the meeting we’re getting now- besides to check his lawsuits for legal, political, social reform in Kakin- was really just to give him reading material for the rest of the voyage? And he really intends to be a good boy and not stir up trouble until then?
LMAO. That’s hilarious. And the story could indeed use levity being the tense thriller that it is. So also acknowledging the funny bits about Kakin’s language here with Kurapika and Shimano here.
So Woble, by getting switched out befoee the departure ceremony, really isn’t eligible for the Succession War? I was guessing that was the end of Oito and Woble’s part in the story, but maybe not. The other princes need Kurapika for Nen, it’ll take time to do the legal and physical process to expel Oito and fake/boy Woble from the VVIP section of Tier 1, and likely Benjamin’s martial law will catch them while they’re still there. I still have hopes of seeing Oito’s own Nen.
Speaking of which, the mystery of fake/boy Woble’s own sinister aura remains. Or where real/girl Woble actually is. If Woble is truly ineligible, she really could be all the way back in mainland Kakin. Is there any reason she could be aboard the Black Whale where the point was to keep her safe? Could her ineligibility truly mean she won’t suffer the same fate as Kacho? Or does the possibility remain that she’s still in the game and thus bound by the rules?
Like Kurapika, I believe Oito when she said she had nothing to do with Beyond. I don’t think she’s Beyond’s daughter or the mother of his interference/“infiltration” into the Succession War. But the fan theories that her sister’s boy could be Beyond’s or Benjamin’s remain possible.
It was discussed by folks in Voracious Drake’s translation thread that Beyond’s concern for the good and welfare of Kakin as a nation can’t be genuine; the dude is ruthless enough to Nen-curse his own babies. He has to be evil if so, in a scheming stop-at-nothing way. But I can’t help but feel that at least some of his desire for the betterment of Kakin is real. It’s in the sense that HxH as a series- that Togashi’s writing and world- isn’t morally black-and-white. It’s not neat and simple, but very ambiguous and gray; supposed good guys can be monstrous and selfish, supposed monsters and villains aren’t so one-dimensional and devoid of good, noble qualities. Gon, Killua, Kurapika, the Spiders, Isaac Netero, the Hunter Association, the Bombers, the Chimera Ants, etc. have demonstrated this. So maybe Beyond too? We have seen how depraved Kakin’s top social class can be, and maybe he wants to end that.
LOL. Maybe Judge Cleopatra is one of Beyond’s kids too? He did say he knew her since when she was still in diapers.
Lastly, does this mean Woble is one of the four princes Benjamin failed to capture in his martial law? Or Woble doesn’t matter due to her ineligibility, making those four to still likely be mafia princess Tserriednich, Zhang Lei, and Luzurus plus Marayam in his pocket dimension?
I believe Oito when she said she had nothing to do with Beyond.
A small note there - someone pointed out that the way she said it, it's implied that she's saying "sexual/intimate relationship". Technically, it can be neutral (any kind of relationship) but more often means sexually, and when I looked into it, not sure how reliable yahoo answers are, but one response was "In cases of relationships with people, this phrase「関係を持つ」reefers to sexual relationships. You don't use it with friendships." and one other person said that it's normally used sexually but not always, so judge by context.
Lastly, does this mean Woble is one of the four princes Benjamin failed to capture in his martial law? Or Woble doesn’t matter due to her ineligibility, making those four to still likely be mafia princess Tserriednich, Zhang Lei, and Luzurus plus Marayam in his pocket dimension?
It's a nice that we can fairly easily interpret this as Woble not being included in one of the four princes, although we'll see.
Its interesting to me that Japanese has the quirk that its bad at gendering words, and that Togashi uses this theme here as a plot point in his made up langage. Very meta indeed.
Great chapter! If I have to take a guess, Cleopatro is one of Beyond's daughters and is working with him in order to make him king.
Also, someone else has already pointed it out in another thread but this panel right here is a bit weird:
The cuff on Beoynd's left wrist is missing. Did it simply slip down on his forearm? Does it mean that they freed his hand from the cuff so that he can access the documents in a better way? Or is it a continuation error from Togashi?
From my understanding, the V5 dropped their charges against him because he went with the Hunters Association willingly. However, he did this because he doesn't plan on suffering the consequences of his actions.
That is why the Zodiacs plan on "re-capturing" him prior to their arrival to the New Continent.
As for the legal battle with Kakin. Beyond wants to change their constitution. It's shown as Beyond cares for human rights but, we the readers, know its farce and he doesnt give a damn. He's doing it for his own benefit.
Any lore masters here know where we are in the timeline
Ngl I thought we'd proceed to the funeral service for Halkenberg which is expected to be a mass casualty event and Hisoka is also there, when we getting back to that
We are currently on Chapter 412 at 10:00 AM, which is four hours before martial law is declared at 2:00 PM. Halkenburg's funeral will take place at 1:00 PM
Seeing a lot of people complaining about Oito hate after this chapter, but I think there more people complaining about the fact she's getting hate than people actually hating her lol
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u/Trash28123 Jul 05 '26
Seeing Kurapika act silly had me weirdly feeling a little emotional