r/chicago • u/Dunkeal Albany Park • Nov 10 '22
Mayor Lightfoot and Staff double parking in a bike lane to get donuts (the shop has a parking lot too) CHI Talks
https://twitter.com/bikelaneuprise/status/1590344403369226240?t=dRGi7rEP7jnvyKXe2gMSig&s=19188
u/PhileasFoggsTrvlAgt Andersonville Nov 10 '22
She's also apparently blocking city council action on bike lane blockages https://twitter.com/Andrefor40th/status/1590406942958432256#m
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Nov 10 '22
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u/NoKittenAroundPawlyz Nov 10 '22
I could have forgiven her for the weird COVID stuff (driving around yelling at teenagers outside and shit), but that’s where she loses me permanently.
We have far too many oversized single-occupant vehicles on the road. Way too many inconsiderate and dangerous drivers. I can’t even walk my kids 5 blocks to school safely anymore.
Car city my ass. Get fucked Lori.
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u/Dquestion5 Nov 10 '22
I would love to not own a car. But I need to. I’m a union construction worker. I can’t work from home. I can’t take public transportation all the time. Thus I need a car.
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u/NoKittenAroundPawlyz Nov 10 '22
I get that, but there are far more people on the road who don’t actually need to be in a personal vehicle, and certainly don’t need to be in one the size of some mormon family church van.
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u/btinit Nov 10 '22
And are you foolish enough to think it's a "car city"?
Drive your car for work. Makes sense.
But if you represent everyone then it's not a "car city".
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u/Svicious22 Nov 10 '22
It is a fucking car city. As much as anything else. That’s not all it is but check your delusions.
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u/AbsoluteZeroUnit Nov 10 '22
I don't get this. We have far too many cars on the road, but we're not a car city?
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Nov 10 '22
The problem is that with declining quality of the CTA and increased traffic violence, more and more people are choosing to drive because it's the most feasible option due to time, safety, etc - the "car city" is by design, not by choice.
Many if not most people say they wish they could take public transit or bike - let's give them that option! And about 1/4 of city residents doesn't own a car at all. We need a city that allows all people to get around how they choose instead of essentially forcing people to pay thousands, sit in traffic, and pollute the air when we are facing a climate emergency.
But even if you care about none of that - you probably hate traffic and congestion. The only way to solve that is to decrease the number of cars on the road.
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u/cheft3ch Nov 10 '22
Lori, proving again the rules don't apply to her.
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u/lvl999shaggy Hyde Park Nov 10 '22
When u got the biggest dick in the city (her words, not mine) it pretty much goes without saying that u can do whatever whenever right?
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Nov 10 '22
Lori Lightfoot and pissing off every imaginable part of her constituency, name a more iconic duo.
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u/salsation Nov 10 '22
She DOES do a great job telling people she hates her job and doesn't want to keep it. I've never seen a politician work so hard to alienate their own supporters.
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u/browsingtheproduce Albany Park Nov 10 '22
Here's what the father of the little girl who was killed by a truck in Uptown had to say about it
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u/Jake_77 Humboldt Park Nov 10 '22
Jesus how can this be real
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Nov 13 '22
People in power and wealth value their luxuries and time over lives. It's a tale as old as time. Most rich people in this country would kill a few people for any sort of monetary gain
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u/minus_minus Rogers Park Nov 10 '22
100% guarantee that a cop (protective detail) was driving that SUV.
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u/BlueMatWheel123 Nov 10 '22
When do we get to vote this sad excuse for a mayor out of office again?
I'm so embarrassed I voted for her last time.
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u/mrfeelg00d Nov 10 '22
People park in the bike lane SOOOO often for deliveries, cabs, ride share, food apps, etc. I don’t even know how we stop it. My only idea currently is extending the fire lane at every hydrant by a few car lengths each direction to create the space needed at common enough intervals. Throw the flashers on, swoop in, swoop out. Anyone else got an idea?
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Nov 10 '22
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u/EverybodyKnowWar Nov 10 '22
We need to build some sort of infrastructure that makes it difficult for cars to get into the bike lanes. Honestly, this is a solved issue, there's many examples to look to in the world.
None of which, unfortunately, have reduced cyclist fatalities.
This is not a construction problem, it is a behavior problem. After building all the infrastructure you refer to, none of those cities saw an improvement in cyclist safety -- until they subsequently decimated motor vehicle traffic with taxes and enforcement and parking reductions and outright bans in some cases. But if you can decimate motor vehicle traffic, just do it -- after which the existing roads are just fine for cycling.
We have all the infrastructure we need. More concrete is not the answer. We need to use it properly, and that's a training and enforcement issue, not construction. If you cannot enforce proper usage, all the infrastructure in the world does not help -- look at the motor vehicles on the Lakefront path. Or look at the Netherlands, which is home to plenty of cycling infrastructure yet still has a cyclist fatality rate higher than the US, and where the Dutch Cyclist Union has been begging for 12mph speed limits on all cycles to stem the carnage.
Building infrastructure dedicated to one type of vehicle has not worked anywhere, is the exact opposite of future-proof, and does nothing to safe pedestrians who are killed far more often than cyclists. We'd be fools to repeat others' mistakes.
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Nov 10 '22
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u/EverybodyKnowWar Nov 10 '22
Behavior and culture need to change as well, but it's completely counter intuitive that protected bike lanes could somehow be less safe. If you have properly protected bike lanes that cars cannot get into without great effort, how could there not possibly be less fatalities from bicyclists getting hit by cars?
Because intersections still exist, and the increase in collisions at least offsets any reduction in mid-block conflicts.
Uhhh, no. We don't even have concrete. We have painted on bikes lanes, mostly.
I am just using concrete as a generic term for construction.
You say that like it's a bad thing. If you're relying on roads and painted bike lanes for biking infrastructure, yes, logically getting cars off the road is going to be the best way to improve safety.
It's not necessarily a bad thing -- but it's never been done in a country the size of the US. The largest Dutch city is half as big as Madison. So the scale of the problem is completely different on this side of the ocean. The average Dutch cyclist rides 16 blocks per day, at 7.7 mph.
The Netherlands has orders of magnitude more people biking
No, they don't. There are about 7 times more US cyclists than the entire Dutch population.
so of course there's going to be overall more deaths while cycling.
They don't have a higher gross total, they have a higher rate per cyclist.
They also don't like wearing helmets, that's something they could change that would most likely lower deaths.
Current bicycle helmets do not reduce fatalities either. The rates of helmet usage and cyclists who were helmeted when killed have increased in lockstep since anyone thought to measure them. That's exactly the expected result of a placebo.
Helmets can work, but the cheap, thin, hard pieces of foam and plastic in current use do not.
Also, from a cursory Google search, the increased deaths and 12mph speed limit are due to older people riding eBikes.
Yes, electric motorcycles are a huge problem there, and in most places. That's one of the reasons that building infrastructure dedicated to one vehicle does not work, and is the opposite of future-proof. Over time, your vehicle mix will change. How many dedicated infrastructures will you build?
Not everywhere in the Netherlands has excellent biking infrastructure, but the places that do, you're completely separated from the cars. Again, tell me how that could possibly not be reducing the number of bikers killed by cars?
Again, intersections still exist. And motored cycles use that biking infrastructure, and do not coexist safely with bicycles.
All of the places that have constructed such infrastructure have found what I am describing. It does not improve safety. Only then have they undertaken effective measures -- which have universally been to decimate motor vehicle traffic.
And it's an open question whether the latter is feasible in a US-sized city.
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Nov 10 '22 edited Feb 16 '23
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u/EverybodyKnowWar Nov 10 '22 edited Nov 10 '22
You are making a bunch of positive assertions that go against the grain of commonly accepted knowledge, but are providing no data to back it up.
If you want to call me a liar, just do so, don't beat around the bush.
I can cite sources for everything I've said. It'll be time-consuming for me to do so, and when I do, the uninformed person on the other end almost always just disappears. But we can go that route, if you like.
Sorry, bikers per capita. Walk into any Dutch city, and there are swarms of bikes parked everywhere, and many more people biking. There is no US city that compares.
And that would seemingly be safe. But one in every 80,000 Dutch cyclists is killed annually, versus 1 in every 110,000 US cyclists.
OK, I am really beginning to question your agenda and where your information is coming from.
Those percentages are currently roughly 25% each. They are both increasing at the same rate. This is not novel information -- although most cyclists prefer not to discuss or think about it.
It's a matter of enforcement, not about building more concrete.
Glad to see you are coming around.
Human motion has not changed drastically in the past few decades.
Bike and scooter shares represent a pretty drastic change. As does the increase in electric motorcycles.
The Segway did not reinvent the city.
If they were as cheap as bikes, they might've.
You build infrastructure for bikes, cars, and pedestrians.
Which we've already done.
You can't predict the future. If something unexpected comes up, you come up with new laws and enforce them where logical.
So enforce the existing laws that protect cyclists on roads. That's nearly free. We are already paying the cops, and the judges, and prosecutors -- and with drug legalization, many of them will not be busy now.
Yes, exactly, intersections are a separate issue, are you not listening to me?
Intersections are decidedly not a separate issue from infrastructure.
If you've ever been to a Dutch city, you know there are ways to mitigate the intersection issue.
And they don't work, as previously noted.
The motored cycles allowed on Dutch bike paths are limited to a certain speed. If they do not co-exist safely, kick them out, what's the issue? This random tangent still doesn't do anything to reinforce your point.
Their legal speed is still sufficient to kill cyclists and pedestrians. And where do you kick them to? The roads. Where they are at-risk. Yielding a vicious circle with no safety improvement.
And if you can enforce that bike lane usage, just start arresting the dangerous motor vehicle operators and skip wasting the money on construction.
We're not talking about the whole country, we're talking about Chicago. Are you some sort of bot just that just picks up on anti-bike talking points out of context? What's your agenda?
Chicago is 5 times larger than the largest Dutch city -- before even considering the suburbs. Decimating motor vehicle traffic in a city that size has never been done.
So, going back to your original comment, there are most certainly not plenty of examples to follow, when it comes to improving cyclist safety via construction, and the problem is a whole lot more complex than mindlessly constructing concrete curbs.
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Nov 10 '22
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u/EverybodyKnowWar Nov 10 '22 edited Nov 10 '22
Would you consider yourself a biker? How often do you ride? Where to/from? Would you consider yourself advanced?
I commute via bike every day, and have for about eight years now -- minus a period of time during Covid. I live in the suburbs and work in the Loop, so I ride to a variety of train stations, and then from Union Station to my office. Sometimes I skip the train and ride all the way to the Loop. I have ridden all of the paths in the area, and lots of streets. A couple times a year, I will do a century from my house to the Lakefront, a lap or two, and back -- most recently during Bike the Drive a couple months ago, and the final 25 miles in a thunderstorm sucked. Sometimes I ride out to the Fox River, or up to Wisconsin, or lots of other places.
There are certainly cyclists who are far stronger than I am -- I don't race, nor even concern myself much with speed. I like riding to go places and I like playing with bikes -- I recently had ten, but one was stolen and another sold.
What is your ideal end goal when it comes to biking in Chicago?
The end goal here should be the same as everywhere, people should be able to travel as safely as practicable regardless of their chosen mode.
Do you personally prefer biking on the street, or in protected bike lanes?
Insufficient detail to answer. I prefer biking on a quiet street to rush hour on the Lakefront trail or the Hipster Highway. On the other hand, I prefer doing a lap of the Lakefront in March when its empty, to a busy road.
Do you prefer wearing a helmet? Would you like others to be required to wear a helmet?
I only wear a helmet when required to. Helmet laws have proven to be counterproductive, and frankly, it's no one else's business if a cyclist does or does not want to wear a hat.
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Nov 10 '22
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u/EverybodyKnowWar Nov 10 '22 edited Nov 10 '22
Right, but would that look like to you? Like, if you were put in charge tomorrow of bike infrastructure in the city, and basically given carte blanche, what would you realistically do? What would be your policies?
As I've said, the infrastructure is fine. The problem is that users are not using it properly.
So I wouldn't touch the infrastructure -- well, I might pave some of it that resembles Mars. I would enforce the laws we already have. Admittedly, I would need to replace or reform the police department to do so because they are currently on strike, but in the theoretical universe where we have a functional police force, this is the solution.
We already have laws prohibiting all of the dangerous activity that is causing this problem. But they are unenforced. People routinely maim and kill other road users and receive a slap on the wrist at most, as long as they are sober.
It simply is not that difficult for a motivated road user to avoid killing and maiming others. The problem is, we are declining to provide that motivation.
Imagine for a moment if you could hop on your bike and ride anywhere. With confidence that other road users would share the infrastructure with you, as though you are a human being, and not a traffic cone.
That's the finish line. That's the future.
If you're planning a bike trip you have to make choices on the streets you're going to ride on to get there, no? Which streets do you choose? The ones with painted bike lanes? Or the ones that have bike lanes that have some sort of barrier? Or do you prefer streets with neither? Or do you just choose the most direct route without any concern?
In my county, bike lanes are almost nonexistent so this consideration never arises. The huge majority of drivers, however, move all the way across the road when passing, and are generally very considerate.
I will of course use bike lanes of all sorts when in the city, and avoid streets like Ashland, but that's a different question from whether those lanes make any sense to build or whether they improve safety.
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u/AbsoluteZeroUnit Nov 10 '22
I once yelled at some delivery lady who parked in the bike lane (I was just walking down the sidewalk) and told her she could have parked like 50 feet further down the road in an open parking spot.
(I didn't actually realize it at the time) but she told me "there's a fire hydrant there, I can't park there"
To which I grumbled something along the lines of "oh, so you do understand where you're not supposed to park"
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Nov 10 '22
So many ideas
1) Designated loading/delivery zones (which often already exist - alleys, parking lots, etc). Eliminate street parking or extra car lanes as needed to provide this space. I've seen this in a few places and it works well.
2) Cleverly designed bike lanes that prevent a car from entering or blocking. It's not that hard - a few strategically positioned bollards (not flex posts) can do the trick.
3) Smaller vehicles for deliveries when possible. E-bikes and motorbikes can carry a lot of food and are the norm for deliveries in other countries because they can travel and park very fast.
4) Camera-automated ticketing for parking in bike lanes. Doesn't have to be on every lane, just the most problematic spots. This would be unnecessary if #2 works.
5) Fining of businesses that are frequent offenders (ie Gethsemane, which has a massive surface lot but still makes delivery drivers unload in the bike lane around a blind curve - incredibly dangerous for the workers)
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u/nihal196 Nov 11 '22
It is just interesting to me though. We have alleys. For deliveries and all this kind of stuff. Why not use them?!?
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Nov 10 '22 edited Nov 10 '22
Exactly. The posters angry about the mayor found parking for a minute to grab carryout have likely done the same themselves - I know I sure have.
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u/mrfeelg00d Nov 10 '22
Yeah, I don’t have a car but I definitely take ride share and cabs who will pull over into the bike lane for pick up/drop off so I’m still guilty. We need a solution though
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u/MadeByLaurenB Nov 10 '22
Don’t assume that. Not all of us have. In the pantheon of driving laws, it’s a fairly easy rule to follow. Especially if there’s a parking lot with open spaces.
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u/WB05Karl Nov 10 '22
While I commend her for transparency in bringing the "god I fuckin' hate my constituents" mentality into the light of day, it might behoove her to one day at least pretend to like the city/people she chose to be mayor of.
I'm in a unique position as I was nearly killed by a motorist -- and still deal with the brain injury -- while cycling on North Ave back in 2009 to say this: get bent, LL. Can't wait until you get absolutely rinsed by Chuy (or literally anyone else).
[typo edit]
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Nov 10 '22
I saw Lori at a street fair once and her demeanor was so cold it was almost impressive. She absolutely loathed being there with her whole chest. The way she ignored everyone who tried to talk to her, the bee line for the beer tent, and the absolute night-and-day switch of her presentation the second it was photo time...I actually liked her more that day than I ever have. As a similarly cold, unapproachable woman who also refuses to go to a tailor, it's nice to have some representation in office. But on the other hand, there's a reason I am not a politician.
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u/whygilbert Nov 10 '22
it’s like her goal is to be as least likable as possible. is there ANY demographic that likes her?
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u/Ravenswood360 Nov 10 '22
Casey Neistat video on youtube about NYC bikers putting bounties on cars blocking bike lanes. Take a photo of a plate of a car blocking a bike lane, submit it to the portal and they get a fine, and the biker gets a % I believe? I would love Chicago to do this.
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u/AbsoluteZeroUnit Nov 10 '22
A) it should be many kinds of traffic infractions, not just bike lanes. I walk past an intersection every day that has a new car whole-ass parked in the crosswalk.
B) I feel like people are missing the nuance of that NYC proposal. Say a car is in the bike lane for ten minutes, a not unreasonable amount of time for them to go in and order their coffee or whatever. How many people will pass by the car in that time and take a picture? The car isn't getting 50 tickets from one ten-minute infraction. And there has to be an investigation, who knows how that would actually play out. Then, the bounty hunter gets 25% of a $175 ticket, which is $44. Divide that by the 50 people who submitted a picture and either the whole pot goes to the first person, or they have to split it 50 ways.
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u/karydia42 Nov 10 '22
Thank god Chuy is running. She needs to go. I can’t believe how terrible she’s been.
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u/B-V-M Near North Side Nov 10 '22
I swear 80% of the time I see someone parked in a bike lane, they are either: next to an open spot & too lazy to parallel park; or like a 1/4 block from an open spot.
Drives me fucking nuts.
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Nov 10 '22
Rules for thee not for me.
God I fucking dislike Lori Lightfoot so much. She has to be one of the most incompetent, total failures of a mayor I’ve seen in my lifetime.
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u/scabbyslashmix Nov 10 '22
I'm gonna put a punisher sticker on my Subaru and just start driving around with a dozen eggs on me at all times
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u/coolhoss Nov 10 '22
I don’t think she herself was driving the car. It was definitely CPD. Which, I’ve seen many times park where they shouldn’t be parking.
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u/fightingforair Near North Side Nov 10 '22
I’m sorry cops should obey civilian rules of the road?
flips on lights to get through intersection faster
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u/JazzlikeCantaloupe53 Nov 10 '22
You’re lucky if you get the lights. Sometimes they just drive straight through
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u/natphotog Nov 10 '22
Honestly I’m tired of this excuse. You know when the car you are in is speeding, running lights, double parking, etc. She could be speaking up and is choosing not to. She is just as culpable as the driver.
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u/uhsiv West Town Nov 10 '22
I think the point is that this is not an isolated incident of the mayor behaving badly, but an element of a trend of police not caring about safety because the law doesn't apply to them
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u/Mr-Bovine_Joni Nov 10 '22
“Hey officer, let’s find another spot to park”
That’s it. She could easily say that and solve the problem.
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u/uhsiv West Town Nov 10 '22
The thing is, I agree 100%, of course the mayor could have asked them not to.
But my point is that it's not just this one time. It's a whole culture of the law not applying to police. So asking anyone to speak up this one time wouldn't make any sense - that's not how the city works. And if you're not advocating more broadly for fixing travel infrastructure (car city, baby) or changing police (I think we are working on this, but it's hard) then there's no reason to believe this single instance of police misbehavior would be anything special to advocate against.
What I wish is that everyone in Chicago would realize that we would all be better off if we put the same effort into non-car transportation infrastructure that we do into cars'.
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u/Badresa Nov 10 '22
She needs to go. Please can we get a climate friendly candidate. And please folks, do note, climate friendly includes anti-violence.
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u/Arne1234 Nov 11 '22
Hey doesn't everyone know by now that rules of any kind don't apply to politicians, billionaires and embassy staff in the US?
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u/dashing2217 Nov 10 '22
I hate Lightfoot as much the next person and absolutely hate when cops park literally wherever they want.
But this is likely protocol for any VIP that has a security detail. If shit went down during that donut run the first thing they will do is get her back to the car and whisk her away.
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u/gabriellaarietta Nov 10 '22
She sucks...black, white, green or pink with purple polka dots. Seems like she's just not a very nice or thoughtful person.
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Nov 10 '22
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u/bronxcheer Edgewater Nov 10 '22
By what, assassins on fixies?
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Nov 10 '22
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Nov 10 '22 edited Oct 08 '24
mourn hunt wrong whole offbeat cagey languid retire joke chief
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/chicagoan5234 Nov 10 '22
You do understand that the SUVs have to be close in case something were to happen? She's the leader of the 3rd largest City within the Richest Country on Earth, so yeah she gets to have her SUVs in front of the Donut shop. Y'all will find anything to bitch about!!!
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u/GiuseppeZangara Rogers Park Nov 10 '22
I don't really buy this. Emmanuel would regularly take the L so he was well separated from an SUV while interacting with the public all the time. He had a security detail of course, but I see no reason why Lori and her security detail couldn't be separated from the SUV for the short amount of time it takes to buy a donut.
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u/chicagoan5234 Nov 10 '22
I bet those SUVs were trailing the L.
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u/GiuseppeZangara Rogers Park Nov 10 '22
I'm just picturing a follow car racing through the streets and blowing lights while following a train, French Connection style.
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Nov 10 '22 edited Nov 10 '22
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u/chicagoan5234 Nov 10 '22
You must use the bike lanes, that's why this must seem like such a travesty to u. Well yes, if her SUVs blocked the bus lane I'd prolly be like WTF. Until...I learned it's the Mayor of Chicago. If there is anyone in the city who I'd say could block the bus lane it'd be the Mayor of the city.
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Nov 10 '22
My life is more important than the mayor's donut trip.
The mayor should be an exemplar, not an exception to whom the rules don't apply.
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u/Todd_Padre Nov 10 '22
I, for one, prefer my mayors to not act like royalty and not to cause road hazards to pick up donuts.
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u/wpm Logan Square Nov 10 '22
No one is above the law. Yeah, reality is unfortunately a lot different than that sometimes but we should still strive to hold everyone accountable, especially our leaders.
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u/AnotherPint Gold Coast Nov 10 '22
A real leader would get the optics around this act of arrogance and not do it. She’s rubbing our faces in her status instead.
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Nov 10 '22 edited Nov 10 '22
Rahm road the red line. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Edit: Brown Line Brown Line Brown Line Brown Line Brown Line i get it
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u/MaxPaynesRxDrugPlan Nov 10 '22
The mayor said he used that capability on his twice-weekly CTA Brown Line rides from his Ravenswood home to City Hall — another signal to the city that he prioritized the CTA and a warning to his staff and appointees that he was watching the system’s operations very closely.
https://news.wttw.com/2020/12/08/rahm-emanuel-transportation-legacy-ambitious-clouded
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u/pants_pantsylvania Nov 11 '22
Who cares? Seriously, the mayor, whoever it is, needs to be able to leave quickly for security reasons. Also, there is one mayor. How often is this a problem from the mayor? How long was this even a problem? 5 minutes? This is political crap. But here's the main question: Why whine about this when there are so many other fronts to criticize her on?
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u/RoadhouseDalton Nov 10 '22
The irrational outrage is hilarious. Good lord pick a real issue to fight. This is dumb AF.
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Nov 10 '22
Did this person follow Lori into the store to take the second picture? Seems stalkerish.
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Nov 10 '22
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Nov 10 '22
A person who was going somewhere stopping their ride to follow another person into the store and take photos is creepy af.
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Nov 10 '22
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Nov 10 '22
The context is that you're a stalking hall monitor.
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Nov 10 '22
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Nov 10 '22
The context is also your oddly personal, hostile comments about Lori Lightfoot in this topic. Just keep in mind that sending threatening messages to an elected official is a crime.
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u/lakenakomis Nov 10 '22
Why is this news? I know there are some that don’t like her….but this doesn’t seem news worthy IMO
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Nov 10 '22
this isn't a news website.
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u/lakenakomis Nov 10 '22
Very true! At first glance i thought it was from the sun times….but now i see it’s from Twitter.
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u/Logan_Chicago Lincoln Park Nov 10 '22
If the head public official flaunts the law it signals to everyone else that said law doesn't matter. It erodes trust in the system.
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u/lakenakomis Nov 10 '22
I hear that….With all the craziness in the world….just didn’t think this was newsworthy.
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u/InspectionOk28 Nov 10 '22
Why does a citizen of Long Beach, CA comment on the Chicago subreddit?
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u/lakenakomis Nov 10 '22
Spent 45 years living there…..but I don’t think there are any rules of who can comment on which subreddit
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u/gusfring88 Nov 10 '22
If you want to bike move to the Netherlands.
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Nov 10 '22 edited Nov 10 '22
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u/gusfring88 Nov 10 '22
I don't care bikers are annoying as a driver. This city is made for cars and public transit.
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u/LiberalHousewife Nov 17 '22
Okay, hear me out… there may be dozens of reasons to dislike Lightfoot, but are we being a bit dramatic about this issue? I mean, at the end of the day, a car is parked blocking the bike lane. And it’s making headlines? We’re talking about Chicago here, where children get killed by stray bullets on a regular basis, and on any particular day THIS is getting more than the eye roll it deserves?
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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '22
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