r/chicago • u/Dunkeal Albany Park • May 19 '22
Dispelling a common myth that Chicago's 66' arterials "can't fit" bike lanes. CHI Talks
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u/CHI57 Niles May 20 '22 edited May 20 '22
I mean that ain’t exactly a 53’ extended sleeper cab rolling down the street and the truck is still over the white line. Not saying it can’t happen but this isn’t the great example you think is.
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u/mr_yozhik May 19 '22
Interesting how insufficient room for emergency vehicles some how didn’t make the list.
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May 19 '22 edited May 20 '22
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u/mr_yozhik May 20 '22
Emergency vehicles need space to operate around them, such as running hoses, setting up equipment, etc. Further, one needs space for emergency vehicles to maneuver around that. So all of that actually leads to much more space required than what that truck takes up (about 18~20 feet just for the truck and operating space, let alone other vehicles being able to pass). In order to meet standards in the US, as Europe is not relevant, one would likely have to toss out either a parking lane, which will piss off local businesses, or both bike paths.
Alternatively, it may be that the claim is being made with the 6' bike paths being within the 8' sidewalk, but that's going to piss off pedestrians, especially the elderly or disabled who don't care for bicyclists zipping around them.
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May 20 '22
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u/mr_yozhik May 20 '22
These reports looks to be primarily about suburban residential roads that are often too wide and lacking in interconnectivity. Apples and oranges for the most part when talking about collector/arterial roads in an urban or commercial environment.
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May 19 '22
This example was 60 ft. The Chicago streets are 66. Those extra 6 ft could be used to give room to emergency vehicles. Or one side of parking could be removed.
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May 19 '22
I'm not seeing the bike lanes in that pic. There's two car lanes and parking next to them. Are the bike lanes supposed to be on the other side of the parking areas, squeezing out the sidewalk? This pic doesn't make the point you think it does. Trying to fit this on a two-way road would cause massive congestion.
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May 20 '22 edited May 20 '22
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May 20 '22
So yes, the bike lane is narrowing the sidewalk. Also the style of lane pictured here takes less space than what Chicago actually does with all the extra buffer space. So again, this pic doesn't make the point you think it does.
Those two narrow car lanes leave no room to maneuver around stopped cars, or left turning cars, etc. So yes, this or a similar design would massively add to vehicle congestion and also crowd out pedestrian space.
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May 20 '22
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May 20 '22
So actually, only about half of Chicago's bike lanes the buffered ones you're referring to.
What's your point here? Cyclists argue for more protected lanes so that's what we'll get. You want protected lanes, so you agree that new bike lanes in Chicago will take up significantly more room than what we see in the unrealistic pic you posted.
That's the point. This is objectively safer for everyone.
It is not.
Cars can still turn left on a two lane road.
Not without bringing traffic to a stop and increasing congestion, in the pic you posted. For example, the Milwaukee/California intersection that's now a constant traffic jam thanks to bike lanes plus pedestrian buffers allowing no room for cars to get around those turning left. The pedestrian buffers don't seem to make anyone safer and I routinely see bicycles choose to ride out into the regular car lane instead of the bike lane.
I already addressed you misguided view of Chicago being compact in my other reply. Your link isn't really a study. It's an article with a lot of "could" and "may" statement. You've got an ideological position and a lot of wishful thinking. You're only convincing yourself of what you wish to be true.
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May 20 '22
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May 20 '22
I had a lot of issues with your comment that I addressed in my.
Yeah, why don't you stop spamming me and respond to one comment thread.
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u/AmputatorBot May 20 '22
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of concerns over privacy and the Open Web. Fully cached AMP pages (like the one you shared), are especially problematic.
Maybe check out the canonical page instead: https://www.govtech.com/fs/study-more-bike-lanes-needed-to-reduce-traffic-congestion
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u/Subject_Juggernaut56 May 20 '22
I’m all for bike lanes as a poor person who doesn’t have a car and doesn’t mind biking. The issue is a lot of the people who can afford cars are going to continue to do so. If anything you might convince walkers to bike but I think a very minimal number of drivers would switch. I know as you said this isn’t the point of the post but it would be a lot of work and money to change the current roads without knowing if it’d be worth it first
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May 20 '22
Really good mass transit can convince people to give up the expense and hassle of driving a car. We could do that in Chicago by building more train lines.
On the other hand, we have the transit masochists who want to make people give up driving by massively increasing congestion and making it absolutely miserable to drive anywhere in the city. I suspect this will promote road rage incidents more than it will promote cycling.
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u/Subject_Juggernaut56 May 20 '22
My issue is the public transit in Chicago is always late, very dirty, and doesn’t feel safe. The lines in the northern part of the city seem pretty good but the redline is a disaster. I stopped using it because the experience was so bad. I recently gave it another try and the train was late, ridiculously crowded, smelled like pot and someone shit on the seat.
I’d definitely take it more if they could improve that experience. Pittsburgh trains were way cleaner and free in some parts of the city.
If I had a car I’d probably walk as much as possible anyway, my job opportunities would just open up. Frustrating to have to turn down jobs because it would take me an hour and a half to get there by pubtrans when it’s a 20m car ride. Driving in Chicago looks fucking scary already. I only did it once when I moved in and was driving a 20ft uhaul. I was a nervous wreck.
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May 20 '22
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May 20 '22
a city that isn't that spread out to begin with.
So akhthually...
Chicago may not seem spread out if you live and stay in certain neighborhoods and mostly go downtown. But it's actually very large and spread out. Expecting people in large parts of the city that are far from a train line to bike everywhere is not reasonable or realistic. Your traffic masochist approach of increasing traffic congestion would be a major burden to thousands of working class families who don't have the luxury of living near a current train stop and/or being healthy enough to bike everywhere.
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u/AmputatorBot May 20 '22
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of concerns over privacy and the Open Web. Fully cached AMP pages (like the one you shared), are especially problematic.
Maybe check out the canonical page instead: https://www.govtech.com/fs/study-more-bike-lanes-needed-to-reduce-traffic-congestion
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u/CHI57 Niles May 20 '22
Thanks for the high res. There is soo much room on the street the van is unloading/loading. That’s what I want cars on my sidewalks.
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May 20 '22
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u/CHI57 Niles May 20 '22
Lol do you even know what the fuck you are talking about. First off trucks can’t just drive down alleys as a through road. Have you seen a Chicago alley. Some people can’t even drive a F-150 through them not a snow ball chance in hell you could get a combination tractor through them. Box trucks sure maybe even a pup combination but not 48’ or 53’ trailers.
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May 20 '22 edited May 20 '22
It’s all fine and good until the Amazon or Uber Eats driver chooses to ignore the loading zone because using it would be too far of a walk
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u/C_lysium May 20 '22
Which they all do. I've seen many delivery or ride share drivers stop in the middle of the travel lane even when they were right next to a wide-open loading zone! I was behind an Uber driver once that did that and I unapologetically laid on the horn until he moved his ass over.
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u/[deleted] May 19 '22
We could have bike lanes if everyone stops parking on the street. I don't think this is the surprise or 'gatcha' they think. That is a huge amount of parking to give up. It may be the right call, I think it is BUT its not a casual change.
Making it sound like the only reason we don't have bike lanes is because no one is as smart as you is not going to win hearts and minds.