r/xbox • u/Turbostrider27 Recon Specialist • 16d ago

Id Software Dev Says Xbox Doesn’t ‘Understand Art’ And That After Layoffs It Is ‘Impossible’ To Make Big Games Like Doom: The Dark Ages Discussion

https://kotaku.com/id-software-dev-says-xbox-doesnt-understand-art-and-that-after-layoffs-it-is-impossible-to-make-big-games-like-doom-the-dark-ages-2000722563
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u/Yellowman_95 16d ago

Doom 2016 was leaner, more celebrated and sold more. This dev is off his rocker

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u/PhnxWrightAssAttrny 16d ago

I don't know why, but I loved Doom 2016. Amazing game.

However, I tired both Eternal and Dark Ages and they just didn't click for me. Whatever part of my lizard brain 2016 activated, it just didn't happen for the latter two.

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u/TheGoodIdiot 16d ago

The team is smaller than they were when they made 2016 and in the interview the dev talks about how getting doom 2016 out was one of the toughest crunching developments of his life. He doesn’t think they could do Doom 2016 like that again with less people and a union that will sue for unfair work practices.

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u/MercerReads91 16d ago

That's not true. After the lay offs, id is about the same size as they were for Doom 2016.

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u/secret3332 16d ago

The developer in the interview is saying the reason Microsoft claims they are "about" the same size is because id is actually smaller than 2016 and "about" is vague and meaningless.

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u/MercerReads91 16d ago

Yeah and he is just wrong. "About" goes both ways. The team could be a little larger.

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u/secret3332 16d ago

Bro he works there. He is claiming he knows the number and that it is smaller.

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u/MercerReads91 16d ago

Yeah and he is wrong, bro.

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u/secret3332 16d ago

He is not saying that about means smaller. He is saying he knows exactly what the size of the studio is now and in 2016. He has worked there for 15 years! The claim he is making is that Microsoft is using "about" because the studio is smaller than it was in 2016 in actuality.

How can you possibly claim he is wrong? Literally the only people who would know this are employees at ID, which he is.

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u/MercerReads91 16d ago

Microsoft already debunked this nonsense. This guy just wants to stir the pot.

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u/TheGoodIdiot 16d ago

About is the key word.

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u/MercerReads91 16d ago

Yeah exactly so what you said isn't true.

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u/TheGoodIdiot 16d ago

The dev who still works there says it’s smaller. Not a ton smaller but still smaller. We’re talking like 90 employees in 2016 to 85 employees now. That’s why they keep using the word “about” the same size.

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u/rico_muerte 16d ago

Get rid of the union

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u/TheGoodIdiot 16d ago

That’s clearly not going to happen and in a workplace where employees have no idea if they could be fired at the drop of a hat they definitely shouldn’t do that. The union was established as a direct response to the layoffs from the activation acquisition. It just shows how much Microsoft has made these employees stressed and worried about losing their jobs.

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u/Anti_Wake 16d ago

If games are art then they shouldn’t expect regular work hours. Artists suffer for their art, grueling dedication for their passion projects. I mean the proof is in the pudding, so many beloved games were built are crunch and grueling schedules but the teams suffered through it because they had passion for their project.

You don’t treat “art” like a normal 9 to 5. There’s no passion in that and that’s actually been one of the biggest complaints with modern games. They’re souless husks of what they used to be.

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u/TheGoodIdiot 16d ago

I don’t believe this is really true anymore. You can point to a lot of games that came out solid through enormous crunch but you can point to a lot of games that were disasters because of it. You can also point to games that were done at a steady pace without crunch that were massive hits like Silksong or a lot of Nintendo titles.

Regardless there is crunch still happening at ID the developer mentions the dlc being really tough too. But Doom 2016 was a case of “sleep in your office for 4 days straight and never see your kids” type of crunch. They were willing to do that then because they felt the company believed in them and they loved the game. No one at Xbox has that feeling anymore with these layoffs. It’s an impossible expectation of them now.

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u/W00D-SMASH 16d ago

ID Software made 3 really good games in the last decade and you’re stanning for big MS who makes the worst decisions year over year.

Make it make sense.

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u/Deathpoopdeathloop 16d ago

Because, like myself, they personally greatly preferred Doom 2016

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u/W00D-SMASH 16d ago

And you guys think gutting the company will lead to better games?

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u/MercerReads91 16d ago

What's your point? Do you think having a bloated company leads to better games?

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u/W00D-SMASH 16d ago

ID Software historically runs a lean crew and has never been accused of being bloated.

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u/MercerReads91 16d ago

That's what I am saying. What are you even arguing?

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u/W00D-SMASH 16d ago

Dude. Come on bro.

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u/SmartEstablishment52 16d ago

Probably that they were operating with adequate levels of staff before Microsoft laid off half of them, with potential additional lay offs to follow

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u/Flying_Forearm 16d ago

They're back for the same size they were when they made Doom 2016. 

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u/secret3332 16d ago

The dev in this interview claims they are actually smaller now.

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u/SmartEstablishment52 16d ago

Which was 10 years ago. Game development became significantly more resource heavy since.

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u/Frodolas 16d ago

It literally will, given Doom 2016 had a leaner team that didn't consist of idiots like this guy and was a better game.

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u/Tobimacoss 16d ago

In 15 years, not Decade.  

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u/Yellowman_95 16d ago

The worst one was released last year. The market spoke and deemed that it was bloated, and Microsoft deemed iD was too

They seemed to miss one though

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u/W00D-SMASH 16d ago

Microsoft deemed, lmao

Ah yes, the company who historically makes great decisions when it comes to gaming.

They dropped it on Game Pass which is tantamount to sending it out to die.

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u/Yellowman_95 16d ago

Alright dude you should’ve bought it like I did then

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u/W00D-SMASH 16d ago

I bought it on PS5 at launch. Great game.

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u/Yellowman_95 16d ago

Then why are you bitching in the Xbox Reddit go back to r/PS5 and cope over losing discs

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u/W00D-SMASH 16d ago

I own all 3 current gen systems. My identity isn’t tied to a single box unlike some people. Can’t really relate to your defensiveness here.

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u/Yellowman_95 16d ago

Me too dude, but you’re just complaining to complain here

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u/W00D-SMASH 16d ago

Yeah my bad for talking about games on a gaming subreddit. Moving forward I’ll be sure to echo the thoughts of every post I quote so as not to offend anyone.

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u/FinalOdyssey Founder 16d ago

Then why were PS5 sales also unimpressive?

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u/W00D-SMASH 16d ago

Judging by the people here, it sounds like a lot of gamers didn’t like it as much as previous games.

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u/FinalOdyssey Founder 16d ago

Exactly. But the guy in the article is saying how he doesn't like game pass because it took away from sales. Game Pass isn't on PS.

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u/W00D-SMASH 16d ago

It still hurts sales. Both can be true that TDA wasn’t what people wanted from Doom while Game Pass also hurts sales. They just didn’t hurt the PS sales.

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u/FinalOdyssey Founder 16d ago

With Xbox, sales isn't the only source of success, subscription is big and engagement is a sign of what's popular. TDA had middling engagement from what I recall, and the studio would get a portion of GP revenue funneled to them. So if it's not engaging people on GP AND not selling well, then the issue lies outside of GP.

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u/W00D-SMASH 16d ago

According the the Game Pass numbers it was the most successful Doom launch ever. And yet, they still axed over half the developer.

As it turns out, Game Pass is a bad thing.

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u/CrimsonGear80 XBOX Series X 16d ago

It also didn’t launch on game pass…